Calling all Brits & Revolutionary War folks

[Breezie]

Calling all Brits & Revolutionary War folks

Hey Gang, Hopefully some one can help with this Revolutionary bone die. My knowledge is limited, but from what I understand, King George required dice to be stamped with the British Crown before allowing soldiers to take the dice with them to the Rev. War. If that information is incorrect, please correct me. Also, does the "R" stand for Revolution? If not, what? Thanks in advance, Breezie

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Calling all Brits & Revolutionary War folks

I see the green check. I think its a little hasty. What is it determined to be? I also found a crude dice with a crown and maybe a letter.. Ill post a pic tommorrow if I get a chance.

Daroofa can you post the link?

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/antique-revolutionary-war-bone-dice-gr-tax

thanks

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Calling all Brits & Revolutionary War folks

Here are pics of my dice I found 2 days ago cleaning out my parents home after my Dads passing. My Dad had this dice in a ziplock bag with some other modern dice. My Dad never collected anything as old as the Revolutionary War. I cant imagine where he would have obtained it. I remembered Breezies thread and I saved it from the auction.

Im not sold on this being Revolutionary War era yet even though the eBay Worthpoint sale states it as such. I really hope it is but I think we need more research. Its up to us here at TN to get it right. Are you guys certain of this? It seems Lucas has some doubt.

Im not certain its bone but it is very crude. The 1, 3 and 5 are very off center. Are yours offcenter Breezie? Just curious. How can I test for bone without damaging it?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Calling all Brits & Revolutionary War folks

There are several other eBay/Worthpoint sales stating these as Revolutionary War dice. Does anyone have the subscription to see the sale price of these dice?

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/gr-revolutionary-civil-war-bone-ivory-dice-36

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/18th-century-crown-gr-tax-stamp-bone-dice

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Calling all Brits & Revolutionary War folks

I think originally the bone/die was a "three", and the 3 holes on the left added later,which is why they cover the "G" and some of the crown.

Doesn't a three have a hole in the middle?

Yes the 3 is diagonal.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Calling all Brits & Revolutionary War folks

Ive been researching this and it appears the dice are solid bone, 18th century. I found papers tracing my family back to the 1600's in America, so its possible that my dice are 1700's. They may have been in the family for a couple centuries. Ill save it as a family item. If I had not seen this post, I would not have saved the dice. Thanks Breezie and Daroofa.


Here are some examples found online of solid bone dice.

 

[Bramblefind]

Re: Calling all Brits & Revolutionary War folks

Great save Bigcy! I think those dice are fantastic!

I found one selling right now that you can watch end and check the price-

http://cgi.ebay.com/Bone-Dice-Die-GR-Crown-Tax-Stamp-Revolutionary-War-1775-/330492426924#vi-desc

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Calling all Brits & Revolutionary War folks

Great save Bigcy! I think those dice are fantastic!

I found one selling right now that you can watch end and check the price-

http://cgi.ebay.com/Bone-Dice-Die-GR-Crown-Tax-Stamp-Revolutionary-War-1775-/330492426924#vi-desc

Thanks. I also saved an 1866 paper showing my GGrandfather served with the Ohio Volunteers during the Civil War. Ill post it later if anyone wants to see it. You need to look through every box before tossing anything when a family member dies.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Calling all Brits & Revolutionary War folks

Of interest my Dad gave me some replica Revolutionary War dice. Has anyone ever found any? I would imagine bullet dice were made when they could no longer import dice from Britain. He must have picked these up at a historical tourist site. He was always traveling. He would buy this junk and thats why I found it hard to believe he would have anything old and genuine. The bone dice may have been in the family handed down.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Calling all Brits & Revolutionary War folks

The bone die on eBay is up to $34 bucks.

 

[Lucas]

Re: Calling all Brits & Revolutionary War folks

Well, it's official.

Re: duty stamps on dice.

These official duty stamps on gaming items ceased during the early part of Queen Victoria's reign. Consequently there are fewer of these than the various GR stamped di and dice. Althought the V of the script is unclear, reference material clearly shows the three different VR marks, but the slants of the loops indicates it is the first of the three illustrated.

So, not Geo. V or VI. But most likely not American either. Those would be super rare.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Calling all Brits & Revolutionary War folks

Well, it's official.

Re: duty stamps on dice.

These official duty stamps on gaming items ceased during the early part of Queen Victoria's reign. Consequently there are fewer of these than the various GR stamped di and dice. Althought the V of the script is unclear, reference material clearly shows the three different VR marks, but the slants of the loops indicates it is the first of the three illustrated.

So, not Geo. V or VI. But most likely not American either. Those would be super rare.

Thanks for posting Lucas but can you explain this to me? Are you saying they are or are not colonial dice? Can you state your reference?

 

[Silver Searcher]

Re: Calling all Brits & Revolutionary War folks



Just wondering if anybody has seen this site, there is a Dice with a Crown similar to Breezie's Dice :P

http://www.timepassagesnostalgia.com/&sin=d970

SS

 

[Lucas]

Re: Calling all Brits & Revolutionary War folks

http://www.donaygames.com/archive_product_details.php?id=10427

Like I said earlier, the stamp act in England went, in various forms, from the 1600's to 2003. Tons of marked stuff, in other words. The Stamp Act in America was famous for being opposed, and short lived. Most of the paper stamps were never used, and I personally doubt a stamp for dice ever even existed for the colonies. So, they are Stamp Act dice, but 99.9% sure they are English made. And since stamps on dice ended in Victoria's reign, the GR would have to be Geo. I–IV, and the ones we see are probably Geo. III and IV.

http://www.timepassagesnostalgia.com/&sin=d970

Yup, seen it, but it was not "proof" of their not being Geo. V or VI. So I kept looking. Now I'm convinced.
But not convinced they are American. Still very unlikely, and would need serious proof. Most Americans have no idea that England even had a stamp act.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Calling all Brits & Revolutionary War folks

Sometimes Im a bit slow but now I get it. Thanks for posting the reference. Its always best. Ill save it.

Ok so the dice are somewhere in the range of 1764-1837. I realize they are made in England. I believe I read that the American colonies could not legally make their own dice or playing cards and were forced to import and pay a tax to England. Is this true, or were they just taxed? I think its certainly possible to be pre Revolutionary War but I realize they could just be early 19th century English dice. Thats explains why there are so many around. It sounds better on eBay to sell as "colonial" lol. Thanks Lucas.

Good link SS.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Calling all Brits & Revolutionary War folks

Like I said earlier, the stamp act in England went, in various forms, from the 1600's to 2003.

And since stamps on dice ended in Victoria's reign, the GR would have to be Geo. I–IV, and the ones we see are probably Geo. III and IV.

Im looking for a specific date range for these items. If this is George lll mark, the date range would be 1760-1837. If its George ll, it could be as old as 1727... Am I correct? So they could very well be colonial dice but not necessarily (probably not) the 1764 Stamp Act.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Calling all Brits & Revolutionary War folks

One die sold $47. http://cgi.ebay.com/Bone-Dice-Die-GR-Crown-Tax-Stamp-Revolutionary-War-1775-/330492426924#vi-desc

 

[Lucas]

Re: Calling all Brits & Revolutionary War folks

"Colonial" if they are pre-1775-6/1783.

Still looking for the right stamp mark. I know the Rev. War thru 1812 Brit Board of Ordinance mark uses exactly the same crown.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Calling all Brits & Revolutionary War folks

The crown in the link posted by SS may be different.

 

[Lucas]

Re: Calling all Brits & Revolutionary War folks

Not a Brit crown.

 

[Silver Searcher]

Re: Calling all Brits & Revolutionary War folks



Everything seems to be pointing to the Green check being right

The pair of dice has red markings of British crown and GR visible.
Ivory. H 1.0, L 1.0, W 1.0 cm
Guilford Courthouse National Military Park, GUCO 1595

SS