Calling anyone interest in solving a cipher?

[Crow]

Hello All

Old Crow has below zero cryptography skills.

I have a document all I know its mid 17th century. written in old english. Every one opinions are welcome.

Have fun.....



Crow

 

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[robertk]

I'd have to work at it just to figure out the script at the top that isn't in code.

 

[Red-Coat]

Interesting document.

From a combination of Optical Character Recognition and Google translate, I get this for the top section of script:

From the same book Ms. De forms Bis [This?] Table no3 Standards Son Undornets Surveys bem nóo are dερους touk of Surrackers to write im Bat Manor Hor ang man Ball Trade; but by The Table-feloving [following?]

OCR doesn’t always get it right of course, but maybe that’s a starting point for determining it to be some kind of table of standards for something.

 

[Red-Coat]

The bottom section looks to be some kind of variation on 'Pigpen' cipher, used by Freemasons and others for secure correspondence. The standard alphabet was replaced by symbols on a letter-by-letter basis, like this:

That was the standard letter substitution (which doesn't match your text) but there were many variations using similar types of symbols.

 

[Blackfoot58]

The bottom section looks to be some kind of variation on 'Pigpen' cipher, used by Freemasons and others for secure correspondence. The standard alphabet was replaced by symbols on a letter-by-letter basis, like this:

View attachment 2180321

That was the standard letter substitution (which doesn't match your text) but there were many variations using similar types of symbols.

I agree. I get the following:
ED VAHDE OPEN Y UP NN HCL
I have no explanation of meaning; just a rough translation.
EDVAHDE could be Edward/Edwardo/Eduardo etc.

The key I learned from was very similar to Red-Coat’s but had a few changes in the order. Also, there appear to be some semicolons in the OP. I have no idea as to their possible affect.

 

[tamrock]

Looks like a single page of a note book. What do the other pages have written on them.?

 

[Blackfoot58]

Ok. I missed a glaring hint.
The center grid on the OP document is the key to what’s written at the bottom. 3 characters per cell = 3 character choices per cell.
The first character would represent “c” as it has no single, or double dot above it.
I do not understand all of the characters from the grid key. Some are possibly archaic. I also do not understand what appears to be T, with and without a dot, in the message.
This grid style is typical of a layout for a key of such a cipher.

 

[Red-Coat]

I agree. I get the following:
ED VAHDE OPEN Y UP NN HCL
I have no explanation of meaning; just a rough translation.
EDVAHDE could be Edward/Edwardo/Eduardo etc.

The key I learned from was very similar to Red-Coat’s but had a few changes in the order. Also, there appear to be some semicolons in the OP. I have no idea as to their possible affect.

'Eduardo' could be interesting. Some of the strange words generated by OCR were recognised as having a possible Portuguese origin.

 

[malenkai]

Pigpen is a simple substitution cipher; you don't need to know the mappings to break it, any alphabet will do. Transliterating the bottom part, respecting the diacritical marks, gives us cipher text of (check my math of course)

abcdeb; afghd cijkkejl

Running it thru an online English-based substitution cipher breaker gives us

naresa; ndthe rwillsig

Obviously, if the source language is Portuguese or something else, you need a different source alphabet cipher breaker, but you get the idea. I'm sure there are online breakers for most languages. I'm not sure if there is enough source cipher text to break it thru frequency analysis or if it is even a substitution cipher in the first place, but it could be.

As for one poster's suggestion that the middle box is the key -- it is unclear to me what that assertion is based on.

 

[Mackaydon]

Take the first letter in each cell. They are in alpha order. The second letter in each cell and the third letter are also in alpha order.
Don in So Cal.
PS: Note also that "I" and "J" are missing . In the last cell, the "S " is correct but the next symbol appears to be the 'missing' "W" ; out of sequence.

 

[Mackaydon]

Crow,
Can you post the pages immediately before and after this one?
Don in SoCal

 

[Blackfoot58]

The key for such a cipher is often shown in a similar (hashtag) grid. Each cell had a specific shape. The shape then denotes a letter or a choice of letters. There are literally thousands of possible variations, although most are different in a very similar way: a character with a dot above it, a character with an x below it, a character that is circled, ad nauseum. For instance: the center cell of the key (hashtag) is a square.
The square now takes on a meaning; let’s say E. Now put a dot in the middle of the square: that equals R.
Anything is readable if you have the key. Let’s say a square with 2 dots equals the number 7.
You can now write err 7, with squares and dots.

 

[Crow]

The book dates before the death of Charles the first refers to king Charles as living. So we can assume the book was made some time before his death in 1649. Before or during the English Civil war.

The book of magical Charms. A mix of herbal, witchcraft. medicinal lore of that era. Some of cures and a lot for tooth ache seen downright dangerous. But it a great insight into everyday belief of the people back in the mid 17th century.

( Talking to archeologist who noted that by the 17th century Sugar production in Caribbean was supplying an ever increasing demand for sugar and the impacts was skulls found before the use of sugar had less tooth decay than skulls after the introduction of sugar. There consequences was large rise of tooth decay and tooth ache. And such services of tooth removal was done by barbers and home remedies to combat tooth ache. )

The book has various cures for various ailments. Even one for baldness?

To make heare grow in a bare place Take the leaves of a figtree bruis them well and rub the bare place therwith. It will make heare grow in that place.

Interesting enough Fig leaves (Ficus carica) contain many chemical components, including:Organic acids: Oxalic, citric, malic, quinic, shikimic, and fumaric acids

Phenolic acids: 3-O- and 5-O-caffeoylquinic acids, ferulic acid, quercetin-3-O-glucoside, and quercetin-3-O-rutinoside
Coumarins: Psoralen, bergapten, 8-methoxypsoralen, angelicin, rutaretin, pimpinellin, and seselin Vitamins: Various vitamins
Carotenoids: Various carotenoids Fatty acids: Various fatty acids
Volatile oils: Various volatile oils Phytosterols: Various phytosterols
Fiber: 6.53%–22.67% crude fiber content Macronutrients: Calcium, potassium, and magnesium Micronutrients: Iron Sugars: Sucrose, glucose, and fructose.

Does it have any uses reactivation dead hair follicles? or cleaning out blocked hair follicles?

For me the book is fascinating insight into beliefs in the 17th century. For metal detectorist finding charms and amulets dating from this period a greater understand of the context of the object they have found. Even wreck divers finding objects in shipwrecks might find artifacts that have some context on how people lived back then.

Crow

 

[Crow]

The book gives a remedy to help with tooth ache

For the toothach

Take oil of spike and poppy seed made into powder; wet a linen clots in it and lay it to the place greevd.Also powder white frankincense and long pepper, boyle them in aqua vitae then wth som lint dropped in it stop boke of the fouls: and it will be wel.

A puffits to dry an humour Take a handful or two wheatbran brakenin a mortar, then take the whets f 6 eggs 6 sponefulls of vinegar wt handful of salt put them alltogether in a pan over the fire til it be warme stirr it well and then spred it on a cloth and so apply it to the place grieved.

interesting enough

The composition of pepper varies depending on the type of pepper and the part of the plant being examined:

Black pepper

Black pepper contains carbohydrates, proteins, fibers, moisture, fat, and minerals. It also contains vitamins C, B1, B2, and B3. Black pepper is rich in minerals like calcium, magnesium, potassium, and phosphorus.

Bell peppers:

Bell peppers contain antioxidants, including carotenoids, capsanthin, violaxanthin, lutein, quercetin, and luteolin. The color of the bell pepper is determined by the type of carotenoid it contains. For example, red bell peppers contain capsanthin, which gives them their red color. Green bell peppers contain lutein.

Pepper leaves

Pepper leaves contain alkaloids, tannins, and flavonoids.
Pepper roots

Pepper roots contain steroids, alkaloids, coumarins, glycosides, and triterpenoids.

Pepper also contains organic acids, like citric acid, and sugars, like fructose and glucose.Yes, mixing equal parts black pepper and salt with a little water to form a paste can help relieve toothaches: How it works: The mixture has antibacterial and anti-inflammatory properties.

How to use it: Apply the paste to the affected tooth, avoiding the gum line, and let it sit for a few minutes. You can repeat this daily for several days. Variations: If the pain doesn't go away, you can try adding crushed garlic cloves to the paste.

So while being archaic we can see the influences happening in the 17th century when the world began to open up to trade with herbs and spices and so development of pharmacist industry over time.

Makes you wonder how much we have today has roots dating back to the 17th century and earlier?

Crow

 

[Crow]

Here is another fact.

The use of cannabis was being used in 17th century England.

The extraordinarie Vertues of certain Herbs. MS. [Th]e first Herb is Acill almalite which is cald [Coro]na Regia, and Rosmarinus. It hath a middle [tree =stalk] of good odours with little leaves. It hath power [t] heate and comfort the Brayns. Yf a house [be] suffumed therwith it chaseth away devills. Pionia doth likewise.

The Second Herb is Artemesia which is mother [of] the first. This thou shalt put in all things [...] thou doest the leaves being green on one side [and] white on the other. With this thou shalt [cl]ep [=call] winds and all spirits, and shalt prophcy.

The 3. herb is Canabis [=cannabis]. It is long in shafte [and clo]th is made therof. Being anointed with it [an]d with the iuice Artemesia having a [m]irrour of steele yf thou clep any spiritts [tho]u shallt see them therin, and have power [to] bynde and loose devills and other things.

The 4. Herb is feniculus having small leaves [and] a long shaft being an holy herb medicinable [of] the eyes to which it giveth light, and chaseth [aw]ay evill spirits

The 5. Herb is Cardammum which is hot and [of] a good complexion. It is of a middle height [and] giveth Gladnes to him that useth it [and gat]hereth together Spirits. Eat of this when [tho]u makest invocation, or make a fume of it.

Jo[annis] Saresbur, de nugis curialium lib. cap. 12 lib. 2. cap. 28. de speculariis.

Crow

 

[Crow]

There are parts of Christianity in book with prayers mention Jesus Christ to chase away evil spirits. It shows us Christianity was blended with folklore and superstition at the time. And evil spirits could cause evil.

Crow

 

[Crow]

Crow,
Can you post the pages immediately before and after this one?
Don in SoCal

Hello Don

I will try to remember which page it was. Sorry i got carried away with other parts of the book.

If it is of any help the cipher that I first posted at bottom of the illustration of first post might be the author of the book?

Because of the book mention King Charles Charles I (19 November 1600 – 30 January 1649) Charles came onto the throne 1625. so we can say the book was at least between 1625 and 1649?
So we can rule out John Dee as the author of book. he was dead by 1608.

This would of been at a time puritan after 1649 would of seen all of this as witchcraft. So no wonder the book as no author?

Crow

 

[DizzyDigger]

That last paragraph in post #16 looks almost like it's written in Latin, although that's just a guess. Twelve years in Catholic school and I never learned Latin..

 

[Crow]

I am surprised the book never got burnt by the puritans in later half of 1700s. People was still being burnt at the stake for witchcraft. As you can see illustration for magic circle

A wand as sword and magic circle for incantations of raising the dead.

That last paragraph in post #16 looks almost like it's written in Latin, although that's just a guess. Twelve years in Catholic school and I never learned Latin..View attachment 2180396

Your properly right. I spent most of my education getting the cane!

Crow

 

[Crow]

Looks like a single page of a note book. What do the other pages have written on them.?

There is old english and I think Latin? Spell amulets, herbal remedies incantations in Latin.

Crow