Can the LDM be Found Legally?

[EE THr]

This question was on the thread which was deleted, so I'll ask it again.

Since the historic site "protection" laws should contain, by definition, who these things are being "protected" for, and since the "who" should certainly be the people of the United States, and since there is no way for the people to benifit from any site which is never actually discovered, and since the current laws make it impossible to discover a buried historic site, is there a legal way to nullify that nonsensical law, and enable historic sites such as the LDM (if it exists) to be discovered?

Or, does the sefl-contradictory aspect of that law, already nullify itself?

 

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[cactusjumper]

EE,

I don't know the ins and outs of the law, but my guess is that there are exceptions.

Take care,

Joe

 

[EE THr]

EE,

I don't know the ins and outs of the law, but my guess is that there are exceptions.

Take care,

Joe

There are always exceptions. 8)

But do you means exceptions to the laws, or exceptions to laws not nullifying themselves due to self contratictions? Or to the necessity of laws being required to beneift people?

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Allo EE, certainly it can be found, but worked legally?

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[EE THr]

Allo EE, certainly it can be found, but worked legally?

Don Jose de La Mancha

Good point. I think more historic discoveries would be made, not only if it were easier to nondestructively search legally, but also if the discoverer were able to fully benefit from it. How do we expect people to spend their time and money to find hidden historic sites, when even if there was a way they could do it legally, they are then penalized financially for it?

That just doesn't make sense, any way you look at it.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

EE ---> ? sheesh

As for silly laws, I believe that there are approximately 136,000 pages of existing, active, federal laws which can be, and are being enforced.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[EE THr]

EE ---> ? sheesh

As for silly laws, I believe that there are approximately 136,000 pages of existing, active, federal laws which can be, and are being enforced.

Don Jose de La Mancha

That sounds about right.

The silly part is that they only have effect inside Washington DC, and for Interstate Commerce in regulating tarrifs between the States. I don't think there are any more tarrifs between the States, so that brings it back to DC only.

Oh yeah, and in defending this country, and making treaties with other countries. The trouble is that they have made treaties with the U.N., but the U.N. is not a "country," so those are meaningless. And since the Wilderness Area restrictions are tied in with giving land to the U.N., I guess they are void, also.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Relax EE, with the passage of this new defense (?) bill, YOU no longer have the 'right' to question.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[EE THr]

Relax EE, with the passage of this new defense (?) bill, YOU no longer have the 'right' to question.

Don Jose de La Mancha

So they say.

 

[Springfield]

...passage of this new defense (?) bill....

Don Jose de La Mancha

I guess this is about where the deck band begins playing Nearer My God To Thee.

 

[EE THr]

...passage of this new defense (?) bill....

Don Jose de La Mancha

I guess this is about where the deck band begins playing Nearer My God To Thee.

I don't know, all the cops in my area have gotten a lot nicer lately. You can fool some of the people....

 

[peralta]

Eethier that was good you brought this back.what bothers me is some hunters roaming with their detectors are happy just finding a coin or a Spaniards armor but they would have to hide like criminals.if you found a large treasure they would only give you what they want.you find 200the million in treasure and they give you 50what thousand, then they bank the rest.
Im all for finding a treasure, donating artifacts which we can write off and splitting all bars or coins, etc. I PEOPLE find a treasure that's been searched for by hundreds of treasurehunters,they don't claim it then nobody will really solvedThe know that the myths are true. Hunters will continue searching for the rest of their lives.sure they will have fun but they would never know that their dreams were true.
If I located twenty mines and wanted others to help open mines not only would the finder benefit but all the others would have they're shares and would have participated in their dreams.
So I guess I would share my mines with many groups in secret.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

***** for you peralta, mi compadre.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[EE THr]

Eethier that was good you brought this back.

Thanks for replying.


There is also another reason I'm suspicious of the Wilderness restrictions all over, in addition to the U.N. landgrabs. It seems that the archeology "establishment" tries to dismiss any and all OOP artifacts, altogether. It appears that anything which either contradicts, or is not included in, Bibical History, must be denied by them.

What are they afraid will be found out there, where few, if any, have gone? Especially if people start poking around? Certainly the Victoria Peak artifacts, an amazing discovery, were never publicized by the Smithsonian (and much less the entire story of how they were found, and what happened to them!)

 

[EE THr]

Ancient North American Indians Wrote in Hebrew​

Here is an interesting video that I found posted on the Ancient Lost Treasures site.

I'm not a fan of Glenn Beck, and worse, it turns out to be a promotion for Globalization, but what it says about the OOP artifacts is interesting.




It seems to me that maybe "They" don't want anyone finding any more stuff like this....

In the Supers, or anywhere else!

 

[coazon de oro]

Hello EE,

I share your frustration, and also understand that time brings change as we learn from our mistakes, and find new ways of doing things. As a grandfather, I would like for our children's children to inherit a clean environment. I know our government is trying to protect our land and water from further contamination. What I don't understand is how we can take so much land out of production, and closing it to mineral entry.

I don't see why we can't continue with at least hard rock mining in Wilderness Area's. Since cyanide and mercury is the main concern, this is what should be restricted only. Mr. Norman Haber developed a new method of extracting gold. It's non toxic, (can be ingested) recovers more gold than cyanide, and more quickly, costing the same, or less. www.habercorp.com Dexpan is a new method of breaking rock, no blasting permit needed. Dexpan is also non toxic, no flying rock, no dust, no noise, and more controlled. www.dexpan.com By implementing these new methods, there is no need to keep America from working and bringing new money into our economy.

A group of Government lawyers working under the Department of the Interior, and the Solicitor, took a hard look at the wordings of the Wilderness Act, and came to a conclusion which got the approval of The Secretary of the Interior in 1998. This Opinion is supposed to be attached to mineral claims in Wilderness Area. I really don't know where it stands as of today, laws keep changing right before our eyes. By also attaching these new methods of mining, one would stand a good chance of working the mine.

Going to your question of whether it can be found legally, we are at the mercy of the National Parks District Ranger. I am sure that if you have clear evidence, he would grant you a digging permit. You just need permission to dig at least 2 1/2 feet of rock and dirt to verify your theory. It's not like you are going to dig for days, nor reroute a spring.

Homar

 

[EE THr]

Going to your question of whether it can be found legally, we are at the mercy of the National Parks District Ranger. I am sure that if you have clear evidence, he would grant you a digging permit. You just need permission to dig at least 2 1/2 feet of rock and dirt to verify your theory. It's not like you are going to dig for days, nor reroute a spring.

Homar

Yes, but who knows exactly how deep one would need to dig, in order to have "clear evidence"?

If the LDM does exist, there is so little known about it, and there are other shafts in the Supers, some of which have already been found, that it could be nearly impossible to verify it without going in all the way. I think it should be legal to empty any filled shafts, as long as it's done properly.

If someone did have the money to see it through, who would want to chance being be stopped mid way, on the whim of some Ranger? Too many people "in authority" make strange decisions based on their personal feelings or whatnot. That's not the way things should be run.

We want our grandchildren to have history available to them, but it won't be if we don't allow hidden history to be found.

And let the finders at least have whatever reward they might be able to get out of it. If someone hadn't discovered it, the government would just do without it anyway, so it's not a loss to the government if they don't take a financial gain from a discovery. And the Parks systems would gain overall, because of more tourists. It just doesn't make any sense, any way you look at it. Something's not right with the current regulations.

 

[Oroblanco]

Just to clear up a point here, not to raise an argument but the Superstitions Wilderness Area is not under the jurisdiction of any part of the US Parks Service; it is not a national park nor a state park, though a small portion is a state park at the very western end. You would not have to deal with the Parks Service, only the US National Forest Service, which is a subordinate branch of the US Dept of Agriculture. Mines and minerals are handled by the US Bureau of Land Management, which is a branch of the Department of the Interior, which complicates matters by having to deal with two different branches of the same government.

As for digging to find the mine, it may not even be necessary to dig at all if you can find ore specimens nearby, or use a probe to determine that an earth cap is covering a mine shaft. Not telling you what to do, just saying that the camera, good EYE work (looking for bits of ore) combined with leg work, would help you establish a case to present in order to start a legal process that would be necessary to ever get legal ownership of the minerals.

If you are not willing to deal with a mass of red tape and setbacks, or risk arrest by doing things illegally, then it would probably be wise to search for a different lost mine than the LDM or look outside the boundaries of the Wilderness Area.

Good luck and good hunting, wishing you all a very prosperous and Happy New Year.
Oroblanco

 

[EE THr]

...it may not even be necessary to dig at all if you can find ore specimens nearby, or use a probe to determine that an earth cap is covering a mine shaft.

From most of the legendary descriptions, it would seem likely that if the LDM exists, it has been very well covered a long time ago, and most likely well grown over by now.

I don't know if a probe would be considered "digging" or not. It might just depend on how, whatever Ranger sees you doing it, feels that day.

I think, in all probability, if there were any definitive ore samples laying around on the surface, they would have been found by now, and are long gone.

The "red tape" thing is exactly what I mean by "Catch-22." Most likely it won't be found without extensive digging, and you can't dig without permission, and you can't get permission unless you have found it. Around and around it goes.

Sure, it might be possible, in the sense that "anything is possible," that someone could, at this point in time, just walk up to it, see it, and find something on the surface that positively identifies it as the LDM. But it seems to me that's a very, very slight possibility. The highest probability being that it's a Catch-22 situation. I don't have any reason to believe other than that---do you?

 

[coazon de oro]

Thanks for correcting this Oroblanco, I don't know how I missed it. I should of just gone with Mr. Scott W.

EE, I have often wondered if there is a tree, or cactus growing on the covered mine. This may be why no one has stumbled on it, they just go around it.

I used to work for natural gas pipeline companies, and the brush and grass tend to grow higher on top of buried pipeline. This is because the soil is loosened. Waltz may have made it ideal for a tree to take root there.

Homar