Can you help me analyze this Nazi map?

[Lucaromano]

Can you help me analyze this Nazi map?

 

[Mackaydon]

The tree is probably gone by now.
What is the back story to the map?
Don in SoCal

 

[AU Seeker]

Can you help me analyze this Nazi map?

I can't make out what the "words" written on the map are, can you post what the words are so we can try and see if that gives any clues?

 

[Crow]

The biggest killer for me is date on the the map 1942? There was no real need for Nazis to be burying treasure in 1942.

In 1942, Nazi fortunes were tied to the expanding German economy and war machine, reaching an estimated value of $34 billion, a peak that declined by the end of the war. This wealth was built and maintained through various means, including the looting of occupied territories and the use of slave labor in industries like steel and arms, with some of the stolen assets ending up in Swiss banks.

In 1942, Rommel's war in Africa shifted from advancing into Egypt to being decisively defeated at the Battles of El Alamein. After a strong start, his Panzerarmee Afrika was pushed back and stopped by the British Eighth Army in July (First Battle of El Alamein) and then decisively defeated in the final offensive in October/November (Second Battle of El Alamein). Key factors in his defeat included a critical lack of supplies, particularly fuel, and overwhelming Allied material and numerical superiority.

Yet as the Nazis was still at the peak of their power in 1942. While their was setbacks in North Africa and Russia. so a Nazi treasure map dated 1942. to me seems a little suspect in credibility.

To me the map seems to be a crude drawn word of mouth copy of a real depository that was used to store the bank of Italy's gold in 1943 . In 1943, German forces seized about 2,338 kilograms of monetary gold from the Bank of Italy in Rome, which was later determined to belong to the National Bank of Albania.

The gold was eventually transferred to Germany and was the subject of a legal dispute after the war between Albania, Italy, and the Allied powers over its rightful ownership and distribution.

Some time prisoners in internment camps used knowledge of this treasure to gain favors. Be revealing the gold bars was first stored in the The Soratte Bunker after being sized from the bank of italy..

The Soratte Bunker is an air raid shelter located under Monte Soratte near Rome, Italy. It was part of a subterranean bunker complex constructed between 1937 and 1943. It was the Headquarters used by the Nazis Generalfeldmarschall Albert Kesselring from September 1943 to June 1944.

As you can see on the crude map the double entrance below.highlighted below.

Crow

 

[Crow]

That said Italian gold from bank of Italy was moved in later stages of 1944 . gold shipped from The Soratte Bunker just north of Rome to north of Italy not far from the Swiss frontier. to another bunker In the municipality of Marnate in the Province of Varese, Lombardy, Italy, are some tunnels that were dug into the hill during this period.

The tunnels form a bunker and the true purpose of this military structure has not been completely clarified. Some hypotheses are that it was used as an air-raid shelter, a deposit for documents and/or precious material, or a logistics hub. It was believed a temporary holding point for the Italian gold sized by the Nazis. Who was shipping gold by rail.

The structure is 469 ft long, 7 ft high, and 6 ft wide and was built out of cement and bricks. It has 4 entries and an interior staircase that leads to the blockhouse. There is also an urban legend that some former soldiers returned to the bunker in the 1970s to excavate these treasures but did not accomplish their plans because of a car accident. Both of these bunkers became the subject of many alleged treasure either by those who contributed in the operations or was told by others. Then after the war came an industry in creating fake maps.

The treasure-storing theory is thought to be closest to the truth. According to American army documents, the Marnate bunker was planned to serve as a deposit for gold mud from the mines of Macugnaga.

In September 1943, the high-ranking SS officer Karl Wolff became the Supreme SS and Police Leader in Italy. By 1945, he became the military commander of the territory of northern Italy.

During this period he authorized Captain Joseph Voettler to be in charge of the control of the Italian-Swiss border and to secure the safe transport of goods and machinery from Italy to Germany. Captain Voettler made plans to transport gold mud from the Macugnana mines to Marnate. It would then be transported to Milan, processed into ingots, and then transported back to the bunker where it would wait to be sent to Mendrisio in Switzerland via the Valle Olona Railway.

The bunker would aid the stealthy movement of this operation and provide .secure protection for the precious materials. General Wolff ordered the construction of the industrial bunker in Marnate because of its close proximity to the Prospiano train station and the command center of the German Army in Olgiate Olona.

The Germans decided to use the railway as a safer means of transport because military trucks in the region were often hit by Allied planes.

General Hans Leyers was assigned the head of the construction project. He was in charge of the RuK (Rüstung und Kriegsproduktion), a department for the control of armaments and war production in the Italian Social Republic.

The bunker was built in 2 months in the summer of 1944 by German soldiers and a company from Tyrol that specialized in defense buildings. The gold-collecting operation was stopped when the Partisans controlled Macugnana for a while. The Nazis regained control over the mines in October 1944.

They found 2.120 kg of golden mud – 250 kg of pure gold when processed – and two crates of golden blocks at 10,427 kg and 7,03 kg.

Everything was ready to send the gold to the bunker, but Benito Mussolini intervened saying that the precious material belonged to the Italian Social Republic and that it should be returned immediately. Instead of Marnate, the gold mud ended up in Monza and was delivered to the Bank of Italy. The crates were found at the end of the war in a bank in Garda. Not even a tiny bit of a gold dust arrived in Marnate.

The bunker was captured by two brigades of Partisans between 25th–26th April after a battle with German soldiers. They found only a 700 kg bomb ready to explode. After the war, the bunker was forgotten.

There two bunker systems in Italy inspired countless WW2 treasure maps some created by word of mouth others by memory. Italy's gold reserves as they made their way to Germany.

Crow

 

[Crow]

Here is the discovery of Italian bank of Rome gold found in 1945.

Three nations thought over it after the war. the gold had links to both bunker complexes and various maps appeared from second hand information.

Crow

 

[Lucaromano]

The biggest killer for me is date on the the map 1942? There was no real need for Nazis to be burying treasure in 1942.

In 1942, Nazi fortunes were tied to the expanding German economy and war machine, reaching an estimated value of $34 billion, a peak that declined by the end of the war. This wealth was built and maintained through various means, including the looting of occupied territories and the use of slave labor in industries like steel and arms, with some of the stolen assets ending up in Swiss banks.

In 1942, Rommel's war in Africa shifted from advancing into Egypt to being decisively defeated at the Battles of El Alamein. After a strong start, his Panzerarmee Afrika was pushed back and stopped by the British Eighth Army in July (First Battle of El Alamein) and then decisively defeated in the final offensive in October/November (Second Battle of El Alamein). Key factors in his defeat included a critical lack of supplies, particularly fuel, and overwhelming Allied material and numerical superiority.

Yet as the Nazis was still at the peak of their power in 1942. While their was setbacks in North Africa and Russia. so a Nazi treasure map dated 1942. to me seems a little suspect in credibility.

To me the map seems to be a crude drawn word of mouth copy of a real depository that was used to store the bank of Italy's gold in 1943 . In 1943, German forces seized about 2,338 kilograms of monetary gold from the Bank of Italy in Rome, which was later determined to belong to the National Bank of Albania.

The gold was eventually transferred to Germany and was the subject of a legal dispute after the war between Albania, Italy, and the Allied powers over its rightful ownership and distribution.

Some time prisoners in internment camps used knowledge of this treasure to gain favors. Be revealing the gold bars was first stored in the The Soratte Bunker after being sized from the bank of italy..

The Soratte Bunker is an air raid shelter located under Monte Soratte near Rome, Italy. It was part of a subterranean bunker complex constructed between 1937 and 1943. It was the Headquarters used by the Nazis Generalfeldmarschall Albert Kesselring from September 1943 to June 1944.

View attachment 2230800


As you can see on the crude map the double entrance below.highlighted below.

View attachment 2230801

Crow

There is a German person who gave this map drawn on leather to a Tunisian immigrant working in Germany and told him that it is located in Tunisia (North Africa), and indeed when I searched for the name of the area written on the map I found that it is 30 km away from my place of residence, but the problem is that there are a lot of trees and rocks in it. It is also known that the Germans who stayed in Tunisia for six months during World War II stole the gold of the Jewish refugees who had fled from Europe and settled there. Later, some of those Germans buried the gold and placed mines around it.

 

[Lucaromano]

The tree is probably gone by now.
What is the back story to the map?
Don in SoCal

There is a German person who gave this map drawn on leather to a Tunisian immigrant working in Germany and told him that it is located in Tunisia (North Africa), and indeed when I searched for the name of the area written on the map I found that it is 30 km away from my place of residence, but the problem is that there are a lot of trees and rocks in it. It is also known that the Germans who stayed in Tunisia for six months during World War II stole the gold of the Jewish refugees who had fled from Europe and settled there. Later, some of those Germans buried the gold and placed mines around it.

 

[Crow]

Was the German a man called Peter Fleig by any chance?

Crow

 

[Lucaromano]

Was the German a man called Peter Fleig by any chance?

Crow

I don't know

 

[Mackaydon]

Re: Fleig

Making sure you're not a bot!

Don in SoCal

 

[Crow]

Okay I see better now in which context of this alleged treasure map. Perhaps your looted treasure belongs to the looting of Jews in Tunisia. There are other claims to the fate of looted treasure from newish population in Tunisia.

How long ago was map given to Tunisian immigrant?


Crow

 

[Crow]

Re: Fleig

Making sure you're not a bot!

Don in SoCal

Hermann Julius Walther Rauff was in a internment camp in Italy at the same time with SS commander Walter Rauff responsible for the extermination of 100000 Jews in Tunisia. Fleig was the main proponent of the Rommel treasure story. Fleig gave three different treasure versions of nazi treasure looted from in Tunisia.

Walther Rauff was a war criminal who escaped justice. Theft from Tunisian Jews: The treasure was looted from the Jewish community in Djerba, Tunisia, by an SS unit organized by SS Colonel Walter Ralph.

He might be the German that gave the Tunisian immigrant the map or his son who has the same name.

Crow

 

[freeman]

The story being repeated here is just 'Rommel's Gold'.

It's the first part of it about how a cache was hidden in the Tunisian desert. The later versions, that Peter Flieg repeats, get developed further with the cache being retrieved then relocated and sunk using the lighthouse as a marker.

 

[BennyV]

I was waiting for some cold water to be dumped on this one.

 

[Crow]

I was waiting for some cold water to be dumped on this one.

The treasure legend attributed to Rommel's gold centers around Peter Flieg claims. What he told the British, what he told the French and what he told the Italians was three different version of nazi treasure. Personally he exploited mankind's common failing, greed after the war for his own ends.

There is no collaborating evidence to support Fleig claims. There is no evidence to support he was even a diver. As for 97000 Jews being murdered was a fact. The main perpetrator was let off Scott free.

Whats happened to their looted property? Sent to Germany: A less popular theory is that the treasure was successfully shipped to Germany, but never reached its destination due to wartime disruptions

The most prominent theory is that the treasure, supposedly packed into six metal ammunition crates, was hidden underwater off the coast of Corsica by fleeing SS men who intended to retrieve it later. Peter Fleig promoted this.

Another story claims a renegade Panzer unit buried the treasure in the North African desert to be recovered after the war, though searches have been unsuccessful. This map posted her pertains to this theory. It not the famous version of the story. Peter Fleig promoted this to.

Both version as freeman pointed out has connection to Flieg who tells different stories to different people. There was wealthy German treasure hunter that used to post here on treasurenet in the early days called Klaus. When young man he spent time under the spell of Flieg freeloading off him as they searched off Corsica.

I asked Klaus years ago about his time with peter. Peter Fleig used alias. The French wanted to jail him for using false identity papers. Flieg was conman.

Crow

 

[Crow]

What does interest me is the fate of the personnel wealth of Moncef Bey leader from 19 June 1942 – 14 May 1943.and his predecsor Ahmad II of Tunis leader from 13 February 1929 – 19 June 1942

​

His personel wealth was alleged to have been seven tons of gold. this could of been leveid from protection of Tunisian jews and Lybian jews. The newspaper below Daily Mirror (Sydney, NSW : 1941 - 1955), Friday 14 May 1943, page 1

The fate of the seven tons of gold has never been established. Was it removed back to Germany?

The live spot price for gold per kilogram is approximately $132,205 USD. x 1000 metric ton is 132205000 times by seven 925435000.

That is why the alleged map is interesting pointing to a location in Tunisia. Providing the map has nothing to do with peter Fleig.

Crow

 

[freeman]

The treasure legend attributed to Rommel's gold centers around Peter Flieg claims. What he told the British, what he told the French and what he told the Italians was three different version of nazi treasure. Personally he exploited mankind's common failing, greed after the war for his own ends.

There is no collaborating evidence to support Fleig claims. There is no evidence to support he was even a diver. As for 97000 Jews being murdered was a fact. The main perpetrator was let off Scott free.

Whats happened to their looted property? Sent to Germany: A less popular theory is that the treasure was successfully shipped to Germany, but never reached its destination due to wartime disruptions

The most prominent theory is that the treasure, supposedly packed into six metal ammunition crates, was hidden underwater off the coast of Corsica by fleeing SS men who intended to retrieve it later. Peter Fleig promoted this.

Another story claims a renegade Panzer unit buried the treasure in the North African desert to be recovered after the war, though searches have been unsuccessful. This map posted her pertains to this theory. It not the famous version of the story. Peter Fleig promoted this to.

Both version as freeman pointed out has connection to Flieg who tells different stories to different people. There was wealthy German treasure hunter that used to post here on treasurenet in the early days called Klaus. When young man he spent time under the spell of Flieg freeloading off him as they searched off Corsica.

I asked Klaus years ago about his time with peter. Peter Fleig used alias. The French wanted to jail him for using false identity papers. Flieg was conman.

Crow

I'm pretty sure that 'Rommel's Gold' was a stand alone tale and the following is what has happened since:

The versions I read of Rommel's Gold tell of the treasure not leaving the desert or of some diversionary movement to set a false trail.

Another stand alone story was the 1941 theft of the gold from the Bank of Zagreb's transport vehicle by a German recconaisance armoured car in Yugoslavia. According to that story, in a sort of 'Kelly's Heroes' type incident, the gold was taken from Yugoslavia by the crew of the armoured car and sailed to........Corsica where it was hidden on a beach. A lighthouse was visible from the ship's landing site.

Of the two stories, the details of the Zagreb gold seems to have been based on some real incident and was the focus of official enquries according to the book 'Conspiracy of Silence' (1960).

Peter Fleig, a low level grifter appears to be the one who has conflated the two stories together , so it was now that 'Rommel's Gold' was the treasure said to have been hidden off a beach in Corsica.

The book 'Conspiracy of Silence' makes the inference all the way through it that those seeking 'Rommel's Gold' off Corsica really need to stop following that story as what did happen was well known.

 

[Crow]

Some researchers believe Peter Fleig was Alias used by Walter Kirner. that was his real name. He is he below with his mother and father.

Walter Kirner's Spouse Johanna Heusinger lived to 2011. They was married in 1944. His
Father Paul Konrad Engelbert Kirner Mother Eva Margarethe Sorg are pictured in above picture with Walter Kirner.

Walter Kirner was born on the 24 Aug. 1914 Nürnberg, Nürnberg, Bavaria, Germany He died 17 Oct. 2005 Nürnberg, Nürnberg, Bavaria, Germany. In 1948 her claimed he knew the wear about of this alleged treasure off Corsica,

Was Peter Fleig an alias? There is no record of peter Fleig in military records.

Hermann Julius Walther Rauff, also Walther Rauff (19 June 1906 – 14 May 1984) was a mid-ranking SS commander in Nazi Germany. However Rauff convinced another low ranking German who had a day pass to change roles and Rauff escaped.

Who was German who had helped him escape. Did Rauff feed a bullshit story of Rommel treasure to bribe Walter Kirner for his day pass?

Walter Kirner Who in turn became Peter Fleig in early Rommel treasure newspaper reports? Which first started in 1948.

Strange enough Walther Rauff never mentioned anything about treasure in all the years after the war. Even when facing extradition for war crimes.

Crow

 

[freeman]

Some researchers believe Peter Fleig was Alias used by Walter Kirner. that was his real name. He is he below with his mother and father.

View attachment 2231052
Walter Kirner's Spouse Johanna Heusinger lived to 2011. They was married in 1944. His
Father Paul Konrad Engelbert Kirner Mother Eva Margarethe Sorg are pictured in above picture with Walter Kirner.

Walter Kirner was born on the 24 Aug. 1914 Nürnberg, Nürnberg, Bavaria, Germany He died 17 Oct. 2005 Nürnberg, Nürnberg, Bavaria, Germany. In 1948 her claimed he knew the wear about of this alleged treasure off Corsica,

Was Peter Fleig an alias? There is no record of peter Fleig in military records.

Hermann Julius Walther Rauff, also Walther Rauff (19 June 1906 – 14 May 1984) was a mid-ranking SS commander in Nazi Germany. However Rauff convinced another low ranking German who had a day pass to change roles and Rauff escaped.

Who was German who had helped him escape. Did Rauff feed a bullshit story of Rommel treasure to bribe Walter Kirner for his day pass?

Walter Kirner Who in turn became Peter Fleig in early Rommel treasure newspaper reports? Which first started in 1948.

Strange enough Walther Rauff never mentioned anything about treasure in all the years after the war. Even when facing extradition for war crimes.

Crow

I'd have to read 'Conspiracy of Silence' again as it's been some years.

But I seem to recall that the authors gave the details, description and name of a German soldier involved in the story of Zagreb gold heist so the reader realised that what was being reported about 'Peter Fleig' was some conflation of or misreporting about him.