CIRCA 1900 FRAMED BASEBALL PICTURE

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

"Play Ball"

I went to a swap meet recently and purchased an old, framed baseball player photo that I paid $10.00 for. I have already done quite a bit of research on it that can best be summed up with the following which is how I came up with a date of circa 1900 ... (Also see pictures).

1. The seller said he found it in a box of other junk and didn't know anything about it.
2. The frame is made of tin ~ Appears Victorian ~ Hand painted floral ~ Fold-out standee on back.
3. The frame is oval and measures 3 1/2" x 2 1/2"
4. The photo is sepa colored (brownish) and was developed in an oval shape then cut to fit.

5. Regarding the uniform ...

Uniform Parts:
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Caps - 1888 - Spalding:
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Shoes - 1883 - Spalding: National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Uniform/Collar - Last Used 1906
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Uniform/Beltless - First Used circa 1910
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Earliest Numbering of Jerseys - 1907-09
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Baseball History - First Major Leagues 1871 thru 1875
History of baseball in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Grain Elevators: Grain Elevators -- History

Pictures, etc ...


1. Framed Photo.

2. Photo Only.

3. Frame and Back. (Glass Not Shown).

4. Cropped Photo. I cannot read the words on the grain elevator.

Shoes from above link ~ He appears to be wearing #1 ~ Solid black high top. Ad is from 1883 Spalding catalog.

Cap ~ Appears to be either #11 or #19 ~ Mulit-sectioned top part. Ad is from 1888 Spalding catalog. I can't tell in my photo if the player is wearing a short or a long bill cap.

Uniform Pants/Beltless ~ Player in my photo is wearing a belt. Belts were last used on uniforms around 1910. This picture is the earliest known example that shows a beltless player and is dated 1913. It is said that prior to 1913 most players wore belts until they were discouraged and possibly even banned because defensive players would sometimes grab hold of the belt to stop an advancing runner.


Footnotes:

1. The Major Leagues were first introduced around 1871 to 1875.
2. Uniform numbering was first introduced in Major Leagues around 1907-1909. (My player has no visible number on his jersey.
3. Uniform "Collars" were last used around 1906. My player's jersey appears to have a collar.

Bottom Line Questions ...

1. Can you think of anything I missed?
2. do you agree with the circa 1900 date?
3. Do you think the player is ... Hometown Team ~ Farm/Minor League ~ Major League?
4. Can you think of any way to identify the location?
5. And what about the grain elevetor? Any clues there? Midwest?

6. And most important of all, do you happen to recognize The Player?

Thanks in advance for your time and interest. I realize I am asking some tough questions that may be impossible to answer, but I thought it would be fun anyway because Baseball season is upon us and I know there are a lot of fans out there like myself.

Sodabottlebob

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

Its like a Macro lens with some magnification..

Heres a pic I took of a rings hallmark with 10x loupe. View attachment 640598

 

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[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I wish I knew exactly what the roof looked like on this elevator. Despite that it appears somewhat flat, I know it has to slanted to some degree. It's located in Chillicothe, Illinois and stands on the banks of the Illinois river. Chillicothe is approximately 15 miles north of Peoria, and about 100 miles southwest of Chicago.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I found the Chillicothe grain elevator. Look to the far left of this picture and you will see it. Except it seems to be on the wrong side of the river. Oh, well, it was worth a shot anyway.

Click to enlarge.

 

[cw0909]

bob i lightened up the img some,and it looks like the other GE/building
has writing on it,and i see men and the white/light looks like a window
reflection,could be a caboose,as was mentioned
is it pos to print this out and look at the writing with your loupe, not sure
if the print out will,color code enough to read,maybe there are adjustments
so it can print and read

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

cw0909 ~

The loupe ledlight is so bright that it achieves the same thing as you suggest with a print. What appears to be writing on the other tower is more of an anomaly (deception) than anything. Just slight variations in tone, but not words. I've never said much about the mid section "under" the white structure, but when examined closely with the loupe it actually appears to be an "open" area where vehicles could either drive under or pull through. In fact, most of the darker mid section of the photo is basically what I call "smudged" together with little or no detail. What you indicate might be men are what appears to be a cluster of tree trunks.

As much as I would like to create a list of every detail, the reality of it is that that is just not possible. Even if there was a train and people and all of the other "maybes" that have been suggested to exist in the photo, I'm not sure that would help all that much when it comes to identifying the true location. I honestly believe it's going to take a matching photo of the main elevator itself in order to identify the location. I also believe it is secondary whether the elevator is on a river, next to a railroad line, or any number of other possibilities. Those aspects are interesting, but I'm not sure how helpful they actually are. If and when a photo of the elevator is ever stumbled upon, I believe it will stand out like a sore thumb. And if that yet to be found photo (if one even exist) happens to be new, and the elevator is still standing, the other structures may very well be long gone by now.

If we can find the elevator and locate the town, then my huntch is that someone still living in the area will know something about our mystery player. But we gotta find a picture of the elevator first, which will likely be nothing more than a random discovery. There is nothing in the photo that I can currently see that will provide us with any "definites" regarding a town or even a state. It could be almost any state in the country that had grain elevators, which includes at least 95% of them.

I will be happy to answer all inquires the best I can, and yet at the same time I have to admit I am presently stumped and almost ready to accept the fact that identifying the location might be impossible, which is exactly what grain elevator experts have already told me in reply to the inquiries I sent them.

Thanks again to everyone. I truly appreciate eveyone's efforts with this. At noon today I will be withdrawing the $100.00 reward and likely let this thread just fade into the sunset as unsolvable.

Bob

 

[DeerStalker]

I still believe the long white horizontal building in front of the GE is a covered bridge. The left end of the building looks open enough to drive through, and I think I see something else, but not going to comment until I can play with the filters a little more.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

DS ~

Thanks ... every little bit helps.

PS ~

As I've said previously, for me it all comes down to the design of the upper roof. I may be wrong about it having four roofs, but I can assure you of the following ...

1. It has what I call a squat headhouse as opposed to a tall, slender one. The roof on the headhouse is what I call a typical A-Frame design.

2. Irregardless of whether it has two, three, or four roofs at the base of the headhouse, those roofs are the short, slightly sloped type as opposed to the long, steeply sloped type.

Find a roof that looks like that, and we just might have a shot at solving this.

Bob

 

[JasShapiro]

cw0909...
Genius! Lightening up that photo makes the train pop out. Even if there's doubt about the glares on the right of the photo, looking at the continuance of the 'train' in the middle of the photo shows additional car(s) that are of similar design. I'm now suggesting that the search might have just gotten far simpler. The reason is that there's a strong possibility that this was not only a working farm, but a train stop. I doubted the power pole theory, as it looked evident to me that the 'pole' may have been a smoke stack terminating into the roof, and now see that it likely was visible in the foreground of the second, darker, GE. I believe it's close enough in the foreground that it might be a telegraph pole extending all the way to the ground. Now, we have another key to perspective if we can determine the typical height of telegraph poles.. This very well may be a train stop for a passenger train, as well as for industrial purposes. So, now we have a stop for grain AND people. This was likely a central location (even though it looks remote from the picture). I can't imagine a train stopping for extremely minor traffic. Now, the effort that went into advertising on the side of the building behind the player is making more sense. I wouldn't think effort would be expended on a place in which no one would visit in the middle of nowhere.
Make a check of where passengers boarded, or passenger train stops along target area, search those stops for matching grain elevators. You might have more options for turn of the century train stops than GEs.
I'm still addicted, but glad I'm not the only one
Best regards,
Jason

 

[zendog64]

Bob, have we definitively ruled out the grain elevator in Attica, Indiana? So far it seems to be the only GE with the headhouse style in question. Plus it has the history of an important baseball event in 1902, with a team that had similar uniforms to the mystery player (see post #265). Satellite photos reveal that the old baseball field was located directly south of the GE, as in the mystery pic (with a similar unidentified structure to the right).

However, when I revisited my research on Attica, I noticed that the GE in Attica was located along the Wabash River, where railroad tracks still stand (Toledo, Wabash & Western Railroad). And for those who still insist on seeing a covered bridge, there was a large wooden covered bridge crossing the river in Attica: Attica Railroad Covered Bridge, Warren County, Indiana

 

[JasShapiro]

Holy mackerel, I can't believe how many times I've looked at this photo and found myself considering new possibilities.
cw, hope you don't mind me pilfering and adding to your enhanced image. So, I've highlighted all of the buildings I think I see in red. My interpretation of these have remained pretty unchanged, BUT, after highlighting them, I'm changing my mental image of the layout of the building locations...and significantly. I believe the train is moving toward us towards the left of the picture, AND I now believe both GE are on the SAME side of the track...the opposite side from the buildings in the foreground! I've highlighted in green what I believe is the train, as well as the telegraph pole, and red for all of the other structures. I still can't see any people but do see areas of darkness that can be trees, people, objects, etc.
So, if the advertising isn't focused towards the train, but opposite of the tracks, is it possible the advertising is at the back of a ball field for optimum viewing? It makes me extremely curious what environment exists behind the photographer's back, bleachers, Main St,
If I get time later I might try to create a map of the possible building layout. I'll abandon the idea if no one else sees what I'm envisioning (always considering the possibility Bob might be right regarding the looney bin ).
Jason

 

[zendog64]

Plus, if you look at this 19th century drawing of Attica, you'll see the location of the grain elevator (right above the covered railroad bridge), with tracks that run parallel to the canal (maybe its the canal you're seeing in the mystery picture?)

View attachment 640828

Based on my research, the baseball field would have been on Third Street.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I still believe the long white horizontal building in front of the GE is a covered bridge. The left end of the building looks open enough to drive through, and I think I see something else, but not going to comment until I can play with the filters a little more.

Are you referring to the building behind the player?

 

[JasShapiro]

Oops, here's the image:

 

[DeerStalker]

Cypress, yes, the building behind the player. And if you adjust the contrast a bit and look just to the left of that building(I call it a covered bridge) it looks like a horse heading toward the opening.

 

[DeerStalker]

Um, just out of curiosity, what town/state did you purchase the picture in?

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I'll respond to your observations and questions in a little while, no time right now. In the meantime please study my latest discovery ...

That's not a building under his arm, it's sky. We are looking at two opposite banks of a river. Those are tree trunks on the right with sunlight reflecting off of the water and illuminating through the gaps in the trees. There is no train! The tall pole looking thing above the all wood elevator on the right is an auger pipe "support" sticking in the air above the roof. It's not a utility pole. What looks like a cross arm is a fiber (hair) embedded in the paper.

They are three buildings - one on this side of the river, and two on the opposite side.

Thanks.

I'll be back.

Bob

I erased the player so you can see the matching tone in the sky. It's not a building under his arm.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

This one is real close to how it would look if painted ...


If you have never tried it before, keep enlarging to where the image shows a box at the bottom that reads "Last/Next" Once you get to that point, click back and forth between Last/Next and the photo will switch back and forth between original and painted. Try it, it's cool.


You'll see where I messed up on the far bank and a few other places. But hopefully you get the general idea ... "Two different river banks ... Three seperate structures "

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I cheated with this one to give you a better idea where the river flows if viewed from slightly higher up. The loupe doesn't lie and neither do I. It just takes time to focus my eye.

Bob

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Earlier I referred to the pole sticking in the air on the other elevator as an auger support. I'm not sure exactly what they are called, but here is an example of what I meant. They appear often in grain elevator pictures and vary in design.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Within a milimeter or two this is the actual size of the photo, which measures 2 3/4" x 2 1/4" overall. The oval part measures 2 1/8" x 1 7/8" ... Which hopefully will explain why everything is so difficult to see, even with a loupe.