CIRCA 1900 FRAMED BASEBALL PICTURE

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

"Play Ball"

I went to a swap meet recently and purchased an old, framed baseball player photo that I paid $10.00 for. I have already done quite a bit of research on it that can best be summed up with the following which is how I came up with a date of circa 1900 ... (Also see pictures).

1. The seller said he found it in a box of other junk and didn't know anything about it.
2. The frame is made of tin ~ Appears Victorian ~ Hand painted floral ~ Fold-out standee on back.
3. The frame is oval and measures 3 1/2" x 2 1/2"
4. The photo is sepa colored (brownish) and was developed in an oval shape then cut to fit.

5. Regarding the uniform ...

Uniform Parts:
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Caps - 1888 - Spalding:
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Shoes - 1883 - Spalding: National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Uniform/Collar - Last Used 1906
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Uniform/Beltless - First Used circa 1910
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Earliest Numbering of Jerseys - 1907-09
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Baseball History - First Major Leagues 1871 thru 1875
History of baseball in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Grain Elevators: Grain Elevators -- History

Pictures, etc ...


1. Framed Photo.

2. Photo Only.

3. Frame and Back. (Glass Not Shown).

4. Cropped Photo. I cannot read the words on the grain elevator.

Shoes from above link ~ He appears to be wearing #1 ~ Solid black high top. Ad is from 1883 Spalding catalog.

Cap ~ Appears to be either #11 or #19 ~ Mulit-sectioned top part. Ad is from 1888 Spalding catalog. I can't tell in my photo if the player is wearing a short or a long bill cap.

Uniform Pants/Beltless ~ Player in my photo is wearing a belt. Belts were last used on uniforms around 1910. This picture is the earliest known example that shows a beltless player and is dated 1913. It is said that prior to 1913 most players wore belts until they were discouraged and possibly even banned because defensive players would sometimes grab hold of the belt to stop an advancing runner.


Footnotes:

1. The Major Leagues were first introduced around 1871 to 1875.
2. Uniform numbering was first introduced in Major Leagues around 1907-1909. (My player has no visible number on his jersey.
3. Uniform "Collars" were last used around 1906. My player's jersey appears to have a collar.

Bottom Line Questions ...

1. Can you think of anything I missed?
2. do you agree with the circa 1900 date?
3. Do you think the player is ... Hometown Team ~ Farm/Minor League ~ Major League?
4. Can you think of any way to identify the location?
5. And what about the grain elevetor? Any clues there? Midwest?

6. And most important of all, do you happen to recognize The Player?

Thanks in advance for your time and interest. I realize I am asking some tough questions that may be impossible to answer, but I thought it would be fun anyway because Baseball season is upon us and I know there are a lot of fans out there like myself.

Sodabottlebob

 

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[zendog64]

For instance, this is actually a painting of Ty Cobb by artist Adam Port:



The painint theory may also explain why one side wall of the headhouse is visible, but no side wall is visible on the lower structure. Artist error perhaps.

 

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[zendog64]

Another Adam Port painting, of Christy Mathewson, proving just how detailed a painting might be.

 

[zendog64]

And just one more, this one painted by Dan Nolan

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

zen ~

I hear what you're saying, but don't have the answer. My guess is that it's an original photograph that was hand tinted by a photograper at his studio. The oval part is pretty dang small with no indications of brush strokes. One of these days I will have it looked at by a professional.

The "brilliant" white spots continue to puzzle me as well. The only thing I could come up with is they might be sunlight reflecting off water, and then streaming through between some wooden post. They are extremely bright and there has to be an explanation of some kind for them.

Bob

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I hope this little experiment of mine works. I am attempting to establish some kind of scale and height in relation to my baseball photo.

The football picture shows a touchdown being made with the opposing goal post at the far end of the field. Cross bars on goal post are exactly 10 feet high. So at 100 yards we can see what 10 feet looks like in comparison to the orange goal line marker that is appx one foot tall. And since the cross bar and the orange marker (pilon) are just about the same height in this particular example, that means (unless I'm crazy) that one foot equals ten feet at 100 yards.

So, if the top of baseball player's left sock is appx one foot high, then ... *

* Please give me some time to work on this to see if I can come up with the correct formula.

But the important part here is that everyone has a good laugh while they're hauling me off to the looney bin.

Bob

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

On the painting theory why would the throwing arm be blurry? I also dont think its balanced enough for a painting.

Could the white spots be some kind of lights from a building? The long shadow may indicate late afternoon/early evening assuming its Summer..

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Irregardless of any crazy formulas ... and based strictly on general appearences and various other factors, it is my opinion (best guess) that ...

1. The player is approximately 100 yards (300 feet) away from the foreground building.

2. The foreground building is approximately 40 feet tall.

3. The elevator behind the foreground building is approximately 200 yards (600 feet) away from the player.

4. The elevator is approximately 80 feet tall.

I realize this is debateable, so please keep in mind this is nothing more than my best guess estimate. The point of which is that I intend to focus primarily on elevators with a distinctly different roof design that are approximately 80 feet tall.

Bob

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Irregardless of any crazy formulas ... and based strictly on general appearences and various other factors, it is my opinion (best guess) that ...

1. The player is approximately 100 yards (300 feet) away from the foreground building.

2. The foreground building is approximately 40 feet tall.

3. The elevator behind the foreground building is approximately 200 yards (600 feet) away from the player.

4. The elevator is approximately 80 feet tall.

I realize this is debateable, so please keep in mind this is nothing more than my best guess estimate. The point of which is that I intend to focus primarily on elevators with a distinctly different roof design that are approximately 80 feet tall.

Bob

Good work. Are all grain elevators on a RR track?

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

White Dots ... click to enlarge for closer examination. Even though the "blur" to the right of the dots appears to be someone standing there, under a 30 power loupe it is just that, "a blur" that I cannot confirm what it is one way or another.

I'm still not sure what the white dots are, but they appear to be uniform gaps between "something," perhaps post of some kind. If the brilliant white aspect is the side of another building, then I'd say that building was "flooded" in sunlight.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

My first thought is lighted factory windows but maybe its a river like you say because its kinda low. Im not able to enlarge it.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Question ... Can anybody tell us why some pictures enlarge when clicked on while others do not?

Big Cy ~

1. I'm still studying the photo, but so far there is no clear evidence of anything railroad related.

2. My best guess regarding the white dots is sunlight reflecting off water.

Bob

 

[Bramblefind]

Hi Bob - I've been chasing this possibility so I will throw it out here ... Wibaux, Montana has a baseball field right next to a group of grain elevators. Here is a photo I found. Also they had barnstorming baseball team - the Wibaux Tigers - in the early 1900s. Here is a reference I found in Google Books. Puts it into perspective anyway of how many minor teams there were in the era that are all but forgotten now.

http://www.montanapictures.net/images/62707 wibaux baseball bridge pano four754.jpg

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

This is for those who are not convinced and/or buy into my "four roof" observation, but who might buy into a "two roof" possibility.

Judyville, Indiana

 

[TENNESSEEGAL]

zen ~

I hear what you're saying, but don't have the answer. My guess is that it's an original photograph that was hand tinted by a photograper at his studio. The oval part is pretty dang small with no indications of brush strokes. One of these days I will have it looked at by a professional.

The "brilliant" white spots continue to puzzle me as well. The only thing I could come up with is they might be sunlight reflecting off water, and then streaming through between some wooden post. They are extremely bright and there has to be an explanation of some kind for them.

Bob

If Im looking at the right spot, could the bright white spots be the sun reflecting off window glass?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

... Big Cy ~

1. I'm still studying the photo, but so far there is no clear evidence of anything railroad related.

2. My best guess regarding the white dots is sunlight reflecting off water.

Bob

I realize we cannot see a RR but Ill rephrase my question "Were all grain elevators next to railroads in 1900-1910?' Surely they didnt have major highways and/or large cross country delivery trucks in 1900's. Did they?

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Bramble ~

Welcome aboard this crazy hayride, and thanks for the contribution. If anyone can solve a good mystery, it's you. But please don't rack your brain too much, because I'd hate to see you or anyone else admitted into a looney bin like they intend to do with me shortly. I hate to admit it, but the problem I'm having is that I have gone through so many grain elevator picture galleries so many times that it's starting to take it's toll on me. If I have to scroll through them even one more time I fear I will burn out completely ... it takes hours and hours, which wouldn't be so bad if it produced just one good result.

Thanks again ... your contribution definitely merits some looking into.

Bob

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

If Im looking at the right spot, could the bright white spots be the sun reflecting off window glass?

Possibly. I never thought of that and will examine the photo again with that in mind.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I realize we cannot see a RR but Ill rephrase my question "Were all grain elevators next to railroads in 1900-1910?' Surely they didnt have major highways and/or large cross country delivery trucks in 1900's. Did they?

Based on the approximately 2,500 pictures I've looked at (both old originals and new) my best guess is that the "majority" of grain elevators were next to railroad lines, but not all of them. Some were on rivers and some were accessed by horse drawn wagons. So "yes," I'd say the majority were definitely railroad related.

Bob

 

[Bramblefind]

I just realized I spelled Wibaux wrong a bunch of times so I am going to correct that! I do think it is worth looking into. Haven't found many other fields with the elevators right next to it that also have a history of baseball in that era. But I know the elevators look a little different ... though the white things we are wondering about do seem to come close to where that bridge would be...

Bramble ~

Welcome aboard this crazy hayride, and thanks for the contribution. If anyone can solve a good mystery, it's you. But please don't rack your brain too much, because I'd hate to see you or anyone else admitted into a looney bin like they intend to do with me shortly. I hate to admit it, but the problem I'm having is that I have gone through so many grain elevator picture galleries so many times that it's starting to take it's toll on me. If I have to scroll through them even one more time I fear I will burn out completely ... it takes hours and hours, which wouldn't be so bad if it produced just one good result.

Thanks again ... your contribution definitely merits some looking into.

Bob

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I really like my new 30 power loupe, and should have purchased one three weeks ago. It has a powerful ledlight, case, and even came with an extra battery.

Regarding the white spots, I am 95% convinced they are the result of sunlight reflecting off water, and that the solid gaps are post (supports) of some kind and not tree trunks. I can clearly make out most of the tree trunks, which are in "front' of the so called post/supports. But whether or not the post/supports are part of a covered bridge or some other structure like a drive thru loading area, I cannot say with 100% certainty. However, my "best guess" is that the white spots are the gaps between the support post of a covered bridge over water.

Bob