City of Reno vs Sparks Nevada.

[Battleborn_JKU]

Call me odd, but I'm one of those detectorists who wants to do the right thing and follow the rules. (Insert sarcasm emoji here) So, I recently obtained a permit to metal detect within City of Reno public parks. Folks at the parks maintenance office we're extremely helpful and even enthusiastic about the hobby of metal detecting. The permit was free and is good for 3 years as long as you don't do something stupid that ends up getting you reported which may result in your permit getting revoked. My point being, the City of Reno trusts us to follow the rules like big boys and girls and does not punish all metal detectorists for the ignorance of few. Now for the other side of this coin (no pun intended). The City of Sparks could not be more on the opposite side of the spectrum of this hobby. Metal detecting is allowed within city parks in their jurisdiction, however, you have to apply for a permit first. There is no time limit on how long it takes the city to get back to you with an approval or disapproval. If disapproved, it is done so without explanation. Likewise, even if your permit is approved, no shovels spades or plug cutters are permitted. Only a probe or screwdriver no wider than 3/8 inches in diameter may be used. Even then, you are not allowed to remove the sod or fold it back in any manner whatsoever. Apparently, the City of Sparks expects you to use Jedi mind power to somehow levitate the hidden item from the ground. Failure to adhere to these ridiculous restrictions can result in a fine and permanent revocation of your permit. If you're one of these detectorists in the city of Sparks that ruined it for the rest of us who do the right thing, please feel free to punch yourself in the throat for 5 straight minutes! Thank you.

 

[xr7ator]

I guess putting up a volley ball net is illegal then. Or, pitching a tent, placing an umbrella with the base stuck in the ground, playing with toys and digging in the dirt, stetting up a horseshoe game for the day.......etc.

 

[MidMoTreasure]

Thar Sparks rule sounds nearly identical to the permit requirement for Columbia, Missouri. I bet they got it out of the same "We Know What's Best For You" nanny government guide pamphlet and avocado toast recipe. Whining whiners getting stupid laws passed.

Pity there isn't more of us in any given community that has stupid laws or we could use the political system to get the stupid laws repealed (or replaced with something similar to Reno if our government betters insist that we need "something" on the books).

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.....The City of Sparks could not be more on the opposite side of the spectrum of this hobby. Metal detecting is allowed within city parks in their jurisdiction, however, you have to apply for a permit first. .....

Battleborn, can you please shed light on how you found out that you need a permit for the city of Sparks ? Is that written down somewhere in their muni. code or park's rules ?

... no shovels spades or plug cutters are permitted. Only a probe or screwdriver no wider than 3/8 inches in diameter may be used. Even then, you are not allowed to remove the sod or fold it back in any manner whatsoever. ....

You think that's just Sparks ? Every city across the USA (including Reno I bet), has rules that forbid alter, deface, molest, destroy, and often time even the evil word "dig". I'll bet that you can walk into ANY city in the USA, approach city hall and ask : "Hi, can I dig holes in the park ?", and they would say "no". EVEN in places where md'ing has never been an issue before (and you'd have been totally ignored).

Obviously that is just boiler plate dusty minutia that would only get applied/enforced if someone was being an utter nuisance.

.... If you're one of these detectorists in the city of Sparks that ruined it for the rest of us who do the right thing, please feel free to punch yourself in the throat for 5 straight minutes! ....

If you asked them "... But why ?..", they might say "because of holes". So you mutter under your breath: "Durned that md'r that must've left holes". But I'll bet you dollars to donuts there was never a case of someone "leaving holes". It's often only the mental knee-jerk connotation/reaction, that some pencil-jockey has, when envisioning "metal detectors". And if someone sees you in the park, they might think "Holes". EVEN THOUGH YOU NEVER DUG ANY, AND WERE ONLY SWINGING.

So don't be so fast to assume some past md'r left holes. It's often time just the "go-to" answer, when they justify the "no" they just passed out. Thus the solution is: Don't be seen by those type busy-body lookie-lous. Pick lower traffic times.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

And re.: Sparks: If you say that it is actually written down somewhere, in park rules or muni ordinance, about this "permit" (which I'll grant might exist), I bet I have a good idea of how it got into their minutia at some time in the past. And ... no ... it wasn't because of "holes".

 

[XLV]

i don't understand national park no detectors allowed ?? y should state or city or county parks be any different they are in the same country

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... y should state or city or county parks be any different they are in the same country

Not sure what you are referring to here MDCLXVI. Are you referring to the fact that city, county, and state parks are WITHIN the larger entity of "federal" ? Ie.: States are merely a sub-component of the federal. And counties are merely a sub-component of the states. And cities are merely a sub-component of the counties. Right ?

But it doesn't work like that. Laws/rules do not "subrogate" downwards. Ie.: Just because something might be disallowed at the federal level (in NPS, for example) doesn't mean that it subrogates down to lower level entities within the geographic spheres. Because rules of usage differ ALL THE TIME. Ie.: one park allows fireworks, and another doesn't. One closes at sunset, and another allows overnight camping. One requires dogs on leash, and another has no-such-rule, etc....

This is a common mistake made when people in the past have read the FMDAC state-by-state listing of state park rules. Some people erroneously assumed this meant "all parks in such & such state". But no: It simply meant STATE-RUN parks. And had no bearing on county, federal, city, or private land.

 

[XLV]

im referring to a attitude of discrimination ...uncle sam stops u go into the park with a detector ( only god knows for what reason ) and lets me put up my tent and kill animals and damage trees with my rifle in the same park ...i don't understand a mining state like nevada with holes u can see from the moon could go and have a different set of rules.... i guess theres no discrimination toward corporations ....at least on this side of the world in a feud system its all illegal ....am being discriminated because i wasn't born here .. i guess on a local level there i could be riding in the back of the bus with my detector ....u have fun with all the stupid BS i'll be a criminal at least i know were i stand

 

[Tiredman]

im referring to a attitude of discrimination ...uncle sam stops u go into the park with a detector ( only god knows for what reason ) and lets me put up my tent and kill animals and damage trees with my rifle in the same park ...i don't understand a mining state like nevada with holes u can see from the moon could go and have a different set of rules.... i guess theres no discrimination toward corporations ....at least on this side of the world in a feud system its all illegal ....am being discriminated because i wasn't born here .. i guess on a local level there i could be riding in the back of the bus with my detector ....u have fun with all the stupid BS i'll be a criminal at least i know were i stand

Years ago I posted what I found night hunting and folks didn't like that. But night was when I had free2dtect time. I wised up on hunting parks since demo sites were rich in older finds when it comes to city hunting. In fact it's why I got a book out on it.

 

[jeff of pa]

Same rule in PA State Parks, Screw Driver Only.

Apparently someone somewhere had Soft Sand like Ground.
No rocks & they were able to stick a probe in the Sand & When they hit resistance they knew it was a foreign Object.
So all they needed to do was twist & pop it to the Top.

in real ground their are Roots,Stones,& Rocks

I always did more Damage using a screwdriver then I did a long Trawel

With a Screwdriver I Used to Scratch a long cut in the Grass
then use my Fingers And Screwdriver to Probe around till I Found the Object.
Length of Cut depended on Depth & Size of Object.
and Boulders I needed to remove from the Hole First

But, As long as it made them Happy & All Squishy inside to see a Screwdriver

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... and lets me ... damage trees with my rifle in the same park ....

Huh ? Well, I have no doubt that you and/or others "damage trees with rifles" . But no, they don't "let you" or "allow it".

Do you know what the difference is between those tree-damagers and those md'rs is ? The person(s) who damaged trees with their rifles didn't go in and ask "Hi, can I damage the trees with my rifle please ?". Yet md'rs, on the other hand, feel the duty to walk in and ask "Hi, can I metal detect ?".

If the tree damagers had gone in ahead of time and asked permission, then THEY TOO would have gotten a "no". And then THEY TOO could start forums lamenting their lack of freedoms. Shame on them.

(Moral of the story = ? )

 

[XLV]

the point i was making tom trees stop the bullet not the game u kill i don't shoot trees ....its ok for me to kill and damage but u can't swing and dig but some one with a old claim can swing his shovel and dig ...the moral of the story is the guy with the rifle has the NRA watching his back and the guy with the detector NOBODY ... elk permit was $500 20 years ago ...what u pay to detect ZERO ...if the king charged for detecting like hunting u won't be treated like a thief

 

[XLV]

at the rate beaches and parks and soon private lands become illegal to detect on..... u can only blame yourselfs for not having someone to defend your rights ( aka NMA )....the detector companies don't seem to worry either (china will put them out of business soon )and with this new generation metal detecting looks doomed to me ....when i worked in N.Y. i don't ever remember seeing anyone with a metal detector but illegal guns plenty ... so good luck

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.......what u pay to detect ZERO ...if the king charged for detecting like hunting u won't be treated like a thief

this has been suggested before on threads: In the same way that some cities (very very very few) have ever dreamed up a "permit" (that costs a few bucks), then ... GEE, wouldn't it be grand if there was a nation-wide "permit system" ?? And they say "I'd be happy to pay $$ for an annual permit, so as not to worry about being bothered".

It conjurs up images of being able to detect nilly-willy anywhere, eh ? Who could argue with that , eh ? The mere word "permit" conjurs up images of peace and calm and old coins up the yazoo, eh ?

But no, it wouldn't work that way. If EVER such an idea was put across law-maker's desks, it would then need to cross the desk of archies. Who ... of course ..... hate us. And then the only result you'd have is: Swatting hornet's nests. Guaranteed you'd end up with more rules/laws AGAINST us, than FOR us.

Thus : The LESS they think of us (permits, etc...), the better.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

at the rate beaches and parks and soon private lands become illegal to detect on.....

I don't agree with this "sky is falling" notion. And to-the-extent you might *think* that "More and more public lands are getting rules against us", it's only because:

a) the "shark attack" selective memory psychology at play. Ie.: you read in the newspaper about a shark attack. Then guess what you'll be worried about @ the next time you go to the beach ? EVEN though it's statistically rare. And EVEN though 10k people swim every day at the same beach with zero incident. Yet only bad news makes the news. Not good news. Same concept for md'ing: The moment any of us reads a lament by "poor old Joe" who got "booted from some park". Or "such & such city enacted a rule" (even though that city is 2000 miles away and you never heard of it). You'll be inclined to think "coming to a city near you" mentality.

b) to the extent that there have been/are new rules, I bet I know why those came on the radar of those officials, as "something that needed a rule". And no, it wasn't holes or cultural heritage. I'll bet that in better than 90% of those cases, it was md'rs THEMSELVES making themselves a giant bullseye, by going in and suggesting permits, asking "permission" (as if that was needed), etc.... Then ... presto ... they must "address your pressing issue".

.... the detector companies don't seem to worry either ...

There is simply no comparison to the NRA. For starters, I don't believe "the sky is falling" (other than the limitations that md'rs BRING ON THEMSELVES). And not only is there NOT this "imminent threat", but : There isn't enough ranks and #'s within our hobby to raise the type of lobbying power/pressure/money that you envision.

And I'm afraid that EVEN IF SOMETHING like the "NMA" were ever introduced (think "FMDAC") then: All you would merely do, is simply "swat more hornet's nests" (bring your piddly issues to their attention), which would only lead to MORE of the same snow-ball effect. It would not LESSEN the snowball effect.

I've seen this happen first-hand: Where the moment any such solidarity is suggested, is the MOMENT that md'rs go "rushing to seek clarifications", and "fight imaginary enemies", and "rush to seek permissions". And then guess what ? It simply becomes a self-fulfilling phenomenon of rules/laws . As if we can be our own worst enemy.

... ....when i worked in N.Y. i don't ever remember seeing anyone with a metal detector but illegal guns plenty ...

And do you know what the difference is between those users of illegal guns , and the md'r is ? It's that those illegal gun guys didn't try to create solidarity and seek permissions to use their illegal guns . Yet md'rs seem more-than-willing to go seek permissions and make-their-presences known. Thus shame on illegal gun guys for not doing the same, eh ? If they had done so , they TOO would have received a "no". And then they too could start forums lamenting their lack of freedoms.

 

[CarsonChris]

I was under the impression Sparks didn’t require a permit? I don’t know if I’m going to ask or just do!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I was under the impression Sparks didn’t require a permit? I don’t know if I’m going to ask or just do!

As you can see: Battleborn never answered my question of how he came to that conclusion. Ie.: to say whether there's an actual rule that says that.

The reason I asked him that, is there is often-time people who come to that conclusion about some certain place that forbids, or have silly hurdles to overcome. And when you question them as to how they decided this was a rule or law, it sometimes turns out there IS NO SUCH LAW OR RULE. And instead, they got their information by (drumroll) .... asking. Yup, show up at a city hall desk (or call or email or whatever) and find some pencil pusher desk-jockey (who perhaps envisions geeks with shovels) to say "no". Thus becoming the latest victim of "No one cared till you asked" routine.

Maybe that's not the case in this case here ? Maybe there's a true existing rule in the park's dept. there ? He never came back on to say where he got the information. You can certainly look up for yourself (wherever they list their park rules and muni. codes). If it is silent on the subject of md'ing, then presto: Not disallowed. Personally, I don't even fret myself to that degree.

 

[Battleborn_JKU]

Being a recently retired police officer, I'm of the mindset, that I'm not in any position to knowingly and deliberately disobey any law or ordinance because I find it silly and don't agree with it. Previous irresponsible detectorists tearing the ground up and leaving trash is precisely the reason that this ridiculous ordinance was enacted. I refuse to be lumped in with that element of our hobby, and we all know who those people are.

 

[Battleborn_JKU]

im referring to a attitude of discrimination ...uncle sam stops u go into the park with a detector ( only god knows for what reason ) and lets me put up my tent and kill animals and damage trees with my rifle in the same park ...i don't understand a mining state like nevada with holes u can see from the moon could go and have a different set of rules.... i guess theres no discrimination toward corporations ....at least on this side of the world in a feud system its all illegal ....am being discriminated because i wasn't born here .. i guess on a local level there i could be riding in the back of the bus with my detector ....u have fun with all the stupid BS i'll be a criminal at least i know were i stand

Being a recently retired police officer, I'm of the mindset, that I'm not in any position to knowingly and deliberately disobey any law or ordinance because I find it silly and don't agree with it. Previous irresponsible detectorists tearing the ground up and leaving trash is precisely the reason that this ridiculous ordinance was enacted. I refuse to be lumped in with that element of our hobby, and we all know who those people are.

 

[Battleborn_JKU]

As you can see: Battleborn never answered my question of how he came to that conclusion. Ie.: to say whether there's an actual rule that says that.

The reason I asked him that, is there is often-time people who come to that conclusion about some certain place that forbids, or have silly hurdles to overcome. And when you question them as to how they decided this was a rule or law, it sometimes turns out there IS NO SUCH LAW OR RULE. And instead, they got their information by (drumroll) .... asking. Yup, show up at a city hall desk (or call or email or whatever) and find some pencil pusher desk-jockey (who perhaps envisions geeks with shovels) to say "no". Thus becoming the latest victim of "No one cared till you asked" routine.

Maybe that's not the case in this case here ? Maybe there's a true existing rule in the park's dept. there ? He never came back on to say where he got the information. You can certainly look up for yourself (wherever they list their park rules and muni. codes). If it is silent on the subject of md'ing, then presto: Not disallowed. Personally, I don't even fret myself to that degree.

I apologize for not answering immediately as you had hoped. This is a Sparks city ordinance that I looked up on their website. It's a PDF file that anybody can access. Hopefully this answers your question. I'm not hiding anything, nor am I'm making this up for grins and giggles!