Civil War Button? New back Pictures on first post

T Hunter · Jan 21, 2010

My Grandmother gave me this button years ago. She was 91 at the time around 10 years ago .She said she was given this when she was a girl by a nurse that was in the Civil War . Is this a civil war button ? Navy Maybe ? What would be the value of this ? I am going to give it to my son and was wondering .Thanks Mark

BioProfessor · Jan 21, 2010

Re: Civil War Button?

What does Albert's list as the correct backmark?

Daryl

vayank54 · Jan 21, 2010

Re: Civil War Button?

He doesn't show any backmarks for that particular button. It says "there are a number of minor variants; the principal makers are the Scovill company and Waterbury Button Company" For the record Albert's does not list all the backmarks that might show up on any particular button.

BioProfessor · Jan 21, 2010

Re: Civil War Button?

True. Tice does a better job. IMHO

Daryl

kuger · Jan 22, 2010

Re: Civil War Button?

kyphote said:
Though it does bear resemblance to certain Civil War Navy and Marines buttons, it is 99.99% not Civil War as it is not listed in Tice's "Uniform Buttons of the United States, 1776 - 1865" (the button Bible). Also, with all do respect, I'm slightly confused by the comment that if it has no backmark, it's impossible to tell. Unless the face is totally destroyed the button can very easily be identified. In fact, a lot of buttons don't even have backmarks. To clean, I use 80% lemon juice combined with water and soak for 2 - 5 minutes. Then let soak in olive oil for a few hours. Hope this helps.
[/quote

I agree with you,on all but......I would not recommend putting a two piece button in any oil as you will have a mess for a long time!!!!!

vayank54 · Jan 22, 2010

Re: Civil War Button?

BioProfessor said:
True. Tice does a better job. IMHO

Daryl

I'm hard headed and grew up using Albert's book. that's just the one I grab first.

I agree with Kuger on the oil. I've seen buttons soaked in oil and it seems to soak into the brass. The buttons I've seen soaked in oil always have an oily residue on them.

BioProfessor · Jan 22, 2010

Re: Civil War Button?

Oil does mess with some buttons. Coins do better in oil. Brass seems a little porous. Diet Coke works with no problems of removing patina, gilt, or other important stuff. I've simmered buttons for hours and got some nice results on some pretty cruddy buttons. Just remember that crud is all that is holding some buttons together.

As far as a backmark, it depends on the button. We find quite a few SC buttons here. The CW buttons don't have a period in the city name and Post war ones do. So you can most times get a lot of information from the front but if you want to be sure of the date of manufacture as well - Pre-war Militia, CW, or Post-War Militia - it's in the backmark on many buttons. The fronts are identical the backs are different. So that's why I reserve judgment until all the information is in.

Daryl

vayank54 · Jan 22, 2010

Re: Civil War Button?

I agree with you about crud being all that is holding some buttons together that is for sure. And it is true about the backmarks on most buttons. Just wondering, on the SC buttons where is the period? If the back which backmark. Just wondering as you kind of lost me there.

Bigcypresshunter · Jan 22, 2010

Re: Civil War Button?

vayank54 said:
Albert's has that button as a coast guard button, post 1941. It is number FD 14A in the book.

Ill be darned. It is a Coast Guard button.
http://www.waterburybutton.com/cart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=0&idproduct=17848

BioProfessor · Jan 22, 2010

Re: Civil War Button?

All this came from the same 5' radius area. The lack of a period associated with the city - Phil or Phila - on these buttons make them buttons produced in a time frame that goes AFTER the war - So I was told when I posted this group on TNET as Civil War Coat find. So a "possible" banner find when down the toilet. Told they had to be classified as Militia because of the backmark. That's all I got.

Daryl

Bigcypresshunter · Jan 22, 2010

Re: Civil War Button?

Look at the face first for a time frame and then look at the backmark to narrow it down.

Face first, backmark second.

In this case the face tells us its Coast Guard. The backmark will narrow down the date perhaps.

BioProfessor · Jan 22, 2010

Re: Civil War Button?

That's how you do it.

Daryl

vayank54 · Jan 22, 2010

Re: Civil War Button?

On the SC's I only know of one indented Horstmann Brothers backmark with only Philadelphia as the city that is civil war and that one has bothers spelled out. That backmark can go into the 1870s though. The ones with NY and Phi can be good but can go later. As far as I know all buttons that have an indented Horstmann Bros & co backmark with only Philadelphia as the city are post war. Horstmann Brothers became the William H. Horstmann company in 1893 so your buttons can go not later than that. They probably date 1870's or so. I hope this helps.
They are still cool buttons though.
Sorry T Hunter, not trying to hijack you post here.

BioProfessor · Jan 22, 2010

Re: Civil War Button?

Yeah, we're off topic but what else is new. :laughing7:

This is what I found but it does not match other backmark information from the web. Guess if I'm going to do buttons, I'll have to cough up the money for the books.

Daryl

vayank54 · Jan 22, 2010

Re: Civil War Button?

What they don't say in that list is if the backmarks are RMDC (raised mark depressed channel )or indented. Most RMDC backmarks are precivil war there are a few exceptions though. The best book for backmarks is McGuinn's & Bazelon's American Military Button Makers And Dealers; Their Backmarks & Dates. While there are still new backmarks and info coming to light it is the best book out there. Bill Mcguinn was a good friend of mine and passed away last year. His knowledge of buttons is surely missed.

T Hunter · Jan 22, 2010

Re: Civil War Button?

Thanks for all the great info . I will try to get the back of the button better so we can see something on it with the diet coke . Mark :icon_thumright:

T Hunter · Jan 22, 2010

The diet coke worked pretty good thanks , Maybe thats enough to date it Thanks Mark

BioProfessor · Jan 22, 2010

A little more Diet Coke and a gently rubbing with a wooden toothpick will take the rest off. Use a new toothpick with a sharp point to help get the crud out of the letters.

Since you can see it better than we can with a photograph, just tell us EXACTLY what is on the back - periods, symbols, etc. With that, we should be good.

Go Diet Coke!!

Daryl