Closed Claims

[Rdg Sluicer]

So I have been looking at an area I am thinking I would like to stake a claim. When I go on LR2000 it shows there is a closed claim there. It has been closed for several years. My question is can I just reopen the closed claim or do I have to start over from scratch?

 

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[panningjack]

Here in Idaho I just look up the active township range section that the claim sits in on lr2000. Write down the lead file #s. Make a trip to the blm public records room and have them pull the case files for me. Look in the back of the file for the location notice and have it copied for 10 cents. If the area is open to mineral entry and there is no active claim, you can just copy the location notice info on to a new sheet and turn it in. Essentially reopening the claim in a different file. I like to do a big stretch of creek at a time and then make maps to layover a standard topo. I write the file #s in the claim boxes that I draw and occasionally do new lr2000 reports. If one of the claim numbers doesn't show up I know it has recently been closed. You can stake a claim anywhere that is open to mineral entry unless it is designated as public use. Even over the top of someone else's claim. Blm doesn't care as long as they get their money. I got that straight from the horses mouth

 

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[calgeologist]

Is there any way to check these things remotely? Will the recorders office release this info if not in person? I am a few states away in Texas and have some places I want to look up in California. My guess is no, but I just wanted to double check with more knowledgeable folks.

 

[Clay Diggins]

I was hoping to avoid buying a GPS right now but I guess I am going to have to just suck it up. Thanks for the advice Clay. btw how much valuable mineral are you suppose to find to stake a claim.....

GPS is a great help but Mining claims are located by aliquot part or metes and bounds. There are no GPS coordinates on a claim location notice nor can you use GPS coordinates to make a claim.

You must find enough evidence of a valuable claimable mineral on the ground to cause a prudent man to proceed with the expectation of a reasonable profit for his time, efforts and expense. You don't have to prove it to anyone to make the claim but you might have to prove it later to keep your claim.

You will also have to define the area of the valuable minerals you wish to claim and make a map and a legal land description of the location to include with your recorded location notice. It is illegal to "paper claim" a location. You will have to go to the location and explore for minerals and stake and monument the claim location before you can record the location at the county recorder's office and file a notice of the location with the BLM.

 

[Rdg Sluicer]

GPS is a great help but Mining claims are located by aliquot part or metes and bounds. There are no GPS coordinates on a claim location notice nor can you use GPS coordinates to make a claim.

You must find enough evidence of a valuable claimable mineral on the ground to cause a prudent man to proceed with the expectation of a reasonable profit for his time, efforts and expense. You don't have to prove it to anyone to make the claim but you might have to prove it later to keep your claim.

You will also have to define the area of the valuable minerals you wish to claim and make a map and a legal land description of the location to include with your recorded location notice. It is illegal to "paper claim" a location. You will have to go to the location and explore for minerals and stake and monument the claim location before you can record the location at the county recorder's office and file a notice of the location with the BLM.

This is the first time I have tried to file a claim. I must say it has been quite the learning experience. I am sure it must get a lot easier after you do a couple.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Here in Idaho I just look up the active township range section that the claim sits in on lr2000. Write down the lead file #s. Make a trip to the blm public records room and have them pull the case files for me. Look in the back of the file for the location notice and have it copied for 10 cents. If the area is open to mineral entry and there is no active claim, you can just copy the location notice info on to a new sheet and turn it in. Essentially reopening the claim in a different file. I like to do a big stretch of creek at a time and then make maps to layover a standard topo. I write the file #s in the claim boxes that I draw and occasionally do new lr2000 reports. If one of the claim numbers doesn't show up I know it has recently been closed. You can stake a claim anywhere that is open to mineral entry unless it is designated as public use. Even over the top of someone else's claim. Blm doesn't care as long as they get their money. I got that straight from the horses mouth

What you are suggesting is a "paper claim" and is illegal panningjack.

You must discover minerals, define the location, stake and monument, define by legal land description, map the location, record with the county Recorder's office and file a notice with the BLM.

Anything less and your "claim" is worth nothing.

Claims are made on the ground and recorded as public notice at the County Recorder's office. The law has only required a notice that a claim was made to the BLM since 1976. Claims are not made at the BLM.

We have a right to claim the valuable minerals we discover. There is a long established process to do that (142 years). Claims aren't free and they aren't made by filing some papers with a government agency even if the BLM takes your money.

It's a pretty cool thing that we have a right to our own public minerals. Abusing that right is a disservice to our fellow miners and to the laws put in place to protect miners. Learn the laws of location and take advantage of them but please don't promote the idea that all it takes to get a claim is to refile someone elses paperwork at the BLM. It's quite simply not true.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Is there any way to check these things remotely? Will the recorders office release this info if not in person? I am a few states away in Texas and have some places I want to look up in California. My guess is no, but I just wanted to double check with more knowledgeable folks.

All public record's are available to the public. Most County Recorders have an online index file so you can look up documents. Once you have the book and page number(s) of the location notices you want just contact the recorder by phone, email or letter and arrange payment and delivery.

We do this several thousand times a year. Some counties make it easy and cheap and others have minimal contact infpormation and charge several dollars a page. We've made a map interface to make it easy to find the county recorder contact information for most counties in the western mining states.
County Recorders List

Hope that helps.

 

[panningjack]

What you are suggesting is a "paper claim" and is illegal panningjack. You must discover minerals, define the location, stake and monument, define by legal land description, map the location, record with the county Recorder's office and file a notice with the BLM. Anything less and your "claim" is worth nothing. Claims are made on the ground and recorded as public notice at the County Recorder's office. The law has only required a notice that a claim was made to the BLM since 1976. Claims are not made at the BLM. We have a right to claim the valuable minerals we discover. There is a long established process to do that (142 years). Claims aren't free and they aren't made by filing some papers with a government agency even if the BLM takes your money. It's a pretty cool thing that we have a right to our own public minerals. Abusing that right is a disservice to our fellow miners and to the laws put in place to protect miners. Learn the laws of location and take advantage of them but please don't promote the idea that all it takes to get a claim is to refile someone elses paperwork at the BLM. It's quite simply not true.

I'm not saying filing with the blm is the only step. Of course you have to find valuable minerals first. Then mark and post corners. Then file your location with the county. Then file with blm. What I'm saying is if you plan on staking a claim on ground that was claimed once before it is legal to use the previous claims drawings and descriptions of the location to stake your claim. As long as your markers are in the same places. Their old corner markers may still be there and it would be perfectly legal to use them or replace them.
Didn't want to give the idea that you just reopen someone else claim. If it were that easy there wouldn't be any open claimable land. I am well aware of the proper/ legal procedures to file a claim. If you want to find out about the details of the procedure call and ask questions with blm and take notes.

 

[Clay Diggins]

I'm not saying filing with the blm is the only step. Of course you have to find valuable minerals first. Then mark and post corners. Then file your location with the county. Then file with blm. What I'm saying is if you plan on staking a claim on ground that was claimed once before it is legal to use the previous claims drawings and descriptions of the location to stake your claim. As long as your markers are in the same places. Their old corner markers may still be there and it would be perfectly legal to use them or replace them.
Didn't want to give the idea that you just reopen someone else claim. If it were that easy there wouldn't be any open claimable land. I am well aware of the proper/ legal procedures to file a claim. If you want to find out about the details of the procedure call and ask questions with blm and take notes.

Hi panningjack. It sounds like you really do mostly get the process. The problem you are having with understanding the whole process for making a valid claim is you are going to the BLM for your legal advice. The BLM has no obligation to inform you of what the actual law is. They often get it wrong.

The right place to see how to make a claim is to look at the laws that govern the location of claims. Those laws are of two kinds - the federal law known as the The General Mining Law of 1872 that created a right to make a claim on the valuable minerals you discover and the State laws that describe the procedure to recording a valid location under State law.

I see you are in Idaho, the Idaho laws for recording mining claims will apply there.

You said in a previous post that the BLM would allow you to overclaim other claims:

You can stake a claim anywhere that is open to mineral entry unless it is designated as public use. Even over the top of someone else's claim. Blm doesn't care as long as they get their money. I got that straight from the horses mouth

The Idaho State laws say otherwise though:

Idaho Statutes
TITLE 47
MINES AND MINING
CHAPTER 6
LOCATION OF MINING CLAIMS
47-611. Affidavit of locators. At or before the time of presenting a location notice for record, whether it be for a quartz lode or placer claim, one (1) of the locators named in the same must make and subscribe an affidavit, in writing on or attached to the notice, substantially in the following form, to wit:

State of Idaho, county of ...., ss.
I, ...., do solemnly swear that I am a citizen of the United States of America (or have declared my intentions to become such), and that I am acquainted with the mining ground described in this notice of location, and herewith called the .... lode or placer claim; that the ground and claim therein described or any part thereof has not, to the best of my knowledge and belief, been previously located according to the laws of the United States and this state, or if so located, that the same has been abandoned or forfeited by reason of the failure of such former locators to comply in respect thereto with the requirements of said laws.
.....................

Signature

Subscribed and sworn to before me this .... day of .... .....
.....................

Signature

The Idaho State law requires you to "solemnly swear" that there are no other claims already there.There are also federal mining laws that make your claim invalid if you claim over another claim.
Yet the BLM leads you to believe that you can?

The BLM really doesn't care if you make a claim over somebody else because by law the BLM does not regulate mining or claiming mining claims. Not their job.


Did the BLM tell you this too?

What I'm saying is if you plan on staking a claim on ground that was claimed once before it is legal to use the previous claims drawings and descriptions of the location to stake your claim. As long as your markers are in the same places. Their old corner markers may still be there and it would be perfectly legal to use them or replace them.

Here is the Idaho State law about restaking old claims-

Idaho Statutes
TITLE 47 MINES AND MINING

CHAPTER 6 LOCATION OF MINING CLAIMS

47-607. Location of abandoned claim. The location of abandoned claims shall be done in the same manner as if the location were of a new claim including the erection of new posts or monuments.

So obviously the BLM didn't know the law in this case. If you followed their advice you would have made an invalid claim. The BLM wouldn't be responsible, you would.

Within the links above here are all the laws on locating mining claims in Idaho. The 1872 Mining Act applies in every State but the specifics of making a valid claim location under State law is different in every State.

Here are the claim locating laws for Arizona. As you will quickly see Arizona has different laws than Idaho. Knowing how to legally make a mineral claim in one State does not necessarily apply in another State.

You can find your State laws on recording mining claims by searching Google, or another search engine, with the phrase.

XXXXX State Mining Claim Statute

Just replace the XXXXX with the name of your State or you might not like what you see!

Read the 1872 Act and the laws for the State you are thinking of claiming in and you will know everything about making a claim there. From what type of post to use for staking to what the map for your claim should look like. The BLM doesn't know any of that stuff. Think about that. You will know more than anyone at the BLM about how to make a claim and all you had to do was study a few paragraphs!

This is just one of the skills of a successful prospector. Knowing the laws of making a mineral location will save your rear when you find some real paydirt and someone tries to move in on you. Be safe, know your rights and your responsibilities.

Heavy Pans

 

[panningjack]

It sounds like you really know your stuff Clay. I haven't looked in to state statutes much. I haven't staked a claim and don't have plans on staking one anytime soon. I'll look into it more if I find a decent piece of ground (I have them bookmarked on the computer). Mostly just make my layover maps to make sure I'm not claim jumping. I would certainly never claim over the top of someone. However I know of at least 20 claims that are filed over other peoples claims. Even a claim over a claim over a claim. Lol. Thanks for the info. For now I'll stick to my club's claims, my buddy's patented claim, and the public use waters on the big river.

 

[Clay Diggins]

That's cool panningjack. Glad to hear you respect existing claims. I never suspected otherwise.

Continue to study the land status and the laws of claim location and you will be ready when that juicy gold ground opens up!

Heavy Pans

 

[KevinInColorado]

Thank you both for the positive, constructive tone of this thread. I learned a lot...as I always do when you are involved Clay!

 

[Hoser John]

Trinity much tougher as NO touch screen ez setup-old school manual computer,microfische and books-ONLY OPEN A FEW HOURS A FEW DAYS A WEEK so plan accordingly. Great folks and no problem gettn' help if not busy but with much reduced staff/hours not so much anymore as retired folks were the BEST!! John

 

[Rdg Sluicer]

Trinity much tougher as NO touch screen ez setup-old school manual computer,microfische and books-ONLY OPEN A FEW HOURS A FEW DAYS A WEEK so plan accordingly. Great folks and no problem gettn' help if not busy but with much reduced staff/hours not so much anymore as retired folks were the BEST!! John

Sounds like a great learning opportunity....... seems like I have a lot of those lately.

 

[Hoser John]

Just privately pm creek name and I can tell ya what ya need usually ,as I have enough, and abandoned a few there in trinity myself last year that were in a partnership. MANY dropped but many held. .John

 

[Rdg Sluicer]

Just privately pm creek name and I can tell ya what ya need usually ,as I have enough, and abandoned a few there in trinity myself last year that were in a partnership. MANY dropped but many held. .John

Thanks John. In my research on LR2000 I have come across several of your open and closed claims. I will shoot a Pm with some questions later today or this eve.