Clue 4 Peaks Lined up as 1

Idahodutch

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If you want to find the hidden camp, you need Holmes directions, view of 4 peaks etc.
In my honest opinion, the map showing the casa caverna, and the Hoya on other side of valley or whatever that is, that map is not for the LDM, and has probably caused as much confusion amongst Dutch hunters, as the 2 sets of directions, that at first glance, do not appear to jive with each other.
So we work the clues, and see if they can be sorted out.
 

Doc4261

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In my honest opinion, the map showing the casa caverna, and the Hoya on other side of valley or whatever that is, that map is not for the LDM, and has probably caused as much confusion amongst Dutch hunters, as the 2 sets of directions, that at first glance, do not appear to jive with each other.
So we work the clues, and see if they can be sorted out.
We are in agreement. El tesoro map might be wong name for it. Like I said it's the one they showed on the TV show. Most know where El hoyo is and can say it's not that. Tho it's intriguing seeing where Walt's was seen by the salt when being followed. U could be def pulled to that area. Geology would be right. Was going to get to counting out that mine later, but now is a good time. Don't want to piss off BB, El hoyo isnt the LDM, sorry. . This one I'm talking about Idaho, had to find it.
 

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Idahodutch

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Not wanting to bring stone maps in, but monumented trail was just that. Dif is u want to go past weavers needle close, where the stone maps is through Labarge. Only dif is bluff springs mntn in the middle. But to be on the main floor of the sups goes against my first clue. Not by water. He went when he did cuz the 3 water spots or what he called them above another. They aren't big but only are there after a rain. Being in the main Sups in the winter water was all around. Think higher where water won't be but at the right time is my thought. But I don't want to transgress to much.
The dropping down off the backbone, past weavers needle ….. is on the west side of the needle … long north trending canyon starts off as East Boulder, then on down to Boulder Canyon.

You really might want to see if that makes a difference for you.

Ps. Water tanks below the mine, have water almost year around.
They stay fairly cool. Cool enough to give you chills if you take a dip in the heat of the day. I had to sit in the sun for a while, to stay warm. Temps outside were about 80.
 

Doc4261

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The dropping down off the backbone, past weavers needle ….. is on the west side of the needle … long north trending canyon starts off as East Boulder, then on down to Boulder Canyon.

You really might want to see if that makes a difference for you.

Ps. Water tanks below the mine, have water almost year around.
They stay fairly cool. Cool enough to give you chills if you take a dip in the heat of the day. I had to sit in the sun for a while, to stay warm. Temps outside were about 80.
Your response would be why I'd count it out. Think scarce water is the key. Not just go below and drink. Up high is and away from water is why he waited to take Julia and company. Also count that out cuz it woulda been easier to come from the west. Then north or south. Close to weavers needle is a no go. Woulda been easy to give directions from the needle. Like "go to the needle in the middle.of mntns look north u will see a plateau to the .."direction" cross the river bed... Ect..". Let's see if another clue could help. Which clue next?
 
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Idahodutch

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Your response would be why I'd count it out. Think scarce water is the key. Not just go below and drink. Up high is and away from water is why he waited to take Julia and company. Also count that out cuz it woulda been easier to come from the west. Then north or south. Let's see if another clue could help. Which one next?
Ok, let’s make it really easy here.
The tributary you have to take will lead you the vicinity.
Let’s go back to Holmes for a minute …. We’re headed along the military trail, and have to go left of the trail, when you see rock man.
Boulder canyon, particularly when hiking south through it, and after Battleship mountain a ways, after today’s 2nd water dumps into it, …… my personal belief is that we would be on THE military trail Waltz spoke of.
Just a little further, and the trail turns to the south……
Going south on the military trail, then going off to the left, means the 1st tributary from the monumented trail, is to the EAST.

Youreally should take time to look at google earth and see for yourself.
Needle canyon is the turnoff….. now heading up canyon.

BOTH directions have us heading east from Boulder canyon….. are you with me so far?
 

Doc4261

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Ok, let’s make it really easy here.
The tributary you have to take will lead you the vicinity.
Let’s go back to Holmes for a minute …. We’re headed along the military trail, and have to go left of the trail, when you see rock man.
Boulder canyon, particularly when hiking south through it, and after Battleship mountain a ways, after today’s 2nd water dumps into it, …… my personal belief is that we would be on THE military trail Waltz spoke of.
Just a little further, and the trail turns to the south……
Going south on the military trail, then going off to the left, means the 1st tributary from the monumented trail, is to the EAST.

Youreally should take time to look at google earth and see for yourself.
Needle canyon is the turnoff….. now heading up canyon.

BOTH directions have us heading east from Boulder canyon….. are you with me so far?
I'm liking the military trail as "Calvery trail" if that what u mean. Fits for name sake. If ya wanted to keep simple. But that goes to Labarge. Would also tie into the pointer tree found back in the day in front of deering canyon.
 

Idahodutch

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Ok, let’s make it really easy here.
The tributary you have to take will lead you the vicinity.
Let’s go back to Holmes for a minute …. We’re headed along the military trail, and have to go left of the trail, when you see rock man.
Boulder canyon, particularly when hiking south through it, and after Battleship mountain a ways, after today’s 2nd water dumps into it, …… my personal belief is that we would be on THE military trail Waltz spoke of.
Just a little further, and the trail turns to the south……
Going south on the military trail, then going off to the left, means the 1st tributary from the monumented trail, is to the EAST.

Youreally should take time to look at google earth and see for yourself.
Needle canyon is the turnoff….. now heading up canyon.

BOTH directions have us heading east from Boulder canyon….. are you with me so far?
If you are wanting to look at a different clue …… how about the one that goes ..
if you pass the little red hills, you’ve gone too far….. and in my scenario, we would be hiking eastward and before reaching marsh valley, we would pass the little red hills.
So looks like there should be an area that would fit the layout needed for all the things described..

A rock man so go east there, or head east in up needle creek. Julia’s directions end.
Check, check.

Water tanks below, potholes, a long ridge, with a saddle. Going through the saddle to the low ridge … check, check, check, check.
At highest point of low ridge, look to the north and 4 peaks looks like one peak.
Check.
The hidden camp is in the canyon brlow. Check.
The mine is not more than 200’ directly across the canyon. Check.
There is a very big gold deposit there.
Check.
A place for animals to graze above. Check
The clues tell the story …. If at the right place or not.

The list of clues that fit are legion, for they are many. 😎

Gold has been found up on Peters Mesa,
So maybe that’s your calling. But if you want the Dutchman, you got to match up the clues 🥸
 

Doc4261

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If you are wanting to look at a different clue …… how about the one that goes ..
if you pass the little red hills, you’ve gone too far….. and in my scenario, we would be hiking eastward and before reaching marsh valley, we would pass the little red hills.
So looks like there should be an area that would fit the layout needed for all the things described..

A rock man so go east there, or head east in up needle creek. Julia’s directions end.
Check, check.

Water tanks below, potholes, a long ridge, with a saddle. Going through the saddle to the low ridge … check, check, check, check.
At highest point of low ridge, look to the north and 4 peaks looks like one peak.
Check.
The hidden camp is in the canyon brlow. Check.
The mine is not more than 200’ directly across the canyon. Check.
There is a very big gold deposit there.
Check.
A place for animals to graze above. Check
The clues tell the story …. If at the right place or not.

The list of clues that fit are legion, for they are many. 😎

Gold has been found up on Peters Mesa,
So maybe that’s your calling. But if you want the Dutchman, you got to match up the clues 🥸
Who said Peter's mesa was end point. Is good logical thought. Many have searched there and for good reason. One that sticks out is kocheras ore was found up there. Why would they bring it up there from where u believe the LDM is. That doesn't seem logical as the easy exit is to the west of your area. Plenty other spots on the way out. 2nd we all know there is a mine up there on Peter's mesa from the stone maps. But that one also is not the LDM.
 

Idahodutch

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Who said Peter's mesa was end point. Is good logical thought. Many have searched there and for good reason. One that sticks out is kocheras ore was found up there. Why would they bring it up there from where u believe the LDM is. That doesn't seem logical as the easy exit is to the west of your area. Plenty other spots on the way out. 2nd we all know there is a mine up there on Peter's mesa from the stone maps. But that one also is not the LDM.
I don’t remember where kocheras gold was found, maybe your right that it was found on peters Mesa area, but I remember something about something found off the side of a trail coming down the SW area of bluff springs mountain .. maybe it’s not related. Idk

I am hard pressed to see how the monumented trail, could lead up to Peters Mesa.
First, I see the part of the directions where you going to come down from crossing over the backbone of the mountain….. I notice that it does not say .. then downward BEFORE weaver’s needle into a long north trending canyon ….
When I read it, I’m seeing …. Then downward PAST weaver’s needle into a long north trending canyon.

I don’t know if you can, but maybe you can help me out on this;
How are you seeing the monumented trail directions, getting you to, first Peters Mesa, and then onto somewhere else?
Do you have a tributary canyon in mind like it says?
 

Doc4261

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I don’t remember where kocheras gold was found, maybe your right that it was found on peters Mesa area, but I remember something about something found off the side of a trail coming down the SW area of bluff springs mountain .. maybe it’s not related. Idk

I am hard pressed to see how the monumented trail, could lead up to Peters Mesa.
First, I see the part of the directions where you going to come down from crossing over the backbone of the mountain….. I notice that it does not say .. then downward BEFORE weaver’s needle into a long north trending canyon ….
When I read it, I’m seeing …. Then downward PAST weaver’s needle into a long north trending canyon.

I don’t know if you can, but maybe you can help me out on this;
How are you seeing the monumented trail directions, getting you to, first Peters Mesa, and then onto somewhere else?
Do you have a tributary canyon in mind like it saI do believe the monu

I don’t remember where kocheras gold was found, maybe your right that it was found on peters Mesa area, but I remember something about something found off the side of a trail coming down the SW area of bluff springs mountain .. maybe it’s not related. Idk

I am hard pressed to see how the monumented trail, could lead up to Peters Mesa.
First, I see the part of the directions where you going to come down from crossing over the backbone of the mountain….. I notice that it does not say .. then downward BEFORE weaver’s needle into a long north trending canyon ….
When I read it, I’m seeing …. Then downward PAST weaver’s needle into a long north trending canyon.

I don’t know if you can, but maybe you can help me out on this;
How are you seeing the monumented trail directions, getting you to, first Peters Mesa, and then onto somewhere else?
Do you have a tributary canyon in mind like it says?
I do believe the monumented trail is what is on the stone maps and we know where that leads but it goes on. Some the old Dutch hunters I believe were hot on the trail just never got to the LDM. Deerings story is one that I like to also reference to the trail. Let this stew for a bit. Pick up another day on other clues. Remember military trail was able to be seen below and was on a lofty ridge that u couldn't get to the mine from above or below, u had to get to it from the side and no miner would look there.
 

Idahodutch

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I don’t remember where kocheras gold was found, maybe your right that it was found on peters Mesa area, but I remember something about something found off the side of a trail coming down the SW area of bluff springs mountain ..

I am hard pressed to see how the monumented trail, could lead up to Peters Mesa.
First, I see the part of the directions where you going to come down from crossing over the backbone of the mountain….. I notice that it does not say .. then downward BEFORE weaver’s needle into a long north trending canyon ….
When I read it, I’m seeing …. Then downward PAST weaver’s needle into a long north trending canyon.

I don’t know if you can, but maybe you can help me out on this;
How are you seeing the monumented trail directions, getting you to, first Peters Mesa, and then onto somewhere else?
Do you have a tributary canyon in mind like it says?
I do believe the monumented trail is what is on the stone maps and we know where that leads but it goes on. Some the old Dutch hunters I believe were hot on the trail just never got to the LDM. Deerings story is one that I like to also reference to the trail. Let this stew for a bit. Pick up another day on other clues. Remember military trail was able to be seen below and was on a lofty ridge that u couldn't get to the mine from above or below, u had to get to it from the side and no miner would look there.
I don’t know where stone maps lead. Please don’t include me 🤓
It is up to each of us to decide which trails to follow.
I do enjoy talking clues, when it’s a conversation.
After you let some of this stew for a bit, maybe we can talk again 👍😁
There’s still a bunch of questions for you to respond to 😛
 

Idahodutch

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Those last clues you mention
Can see military trail from mine but not visa versa. Check
Have to get to it from the side…. Check
No miner would look there… check

Bring ‘em on 👍
 

Doc4261

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Those last clues you mention
Can see military trail from mine but not visa versa. Check
Have to get to it from the side…. Check
No miner would look there… check

Bring ‘em on 👍
Why would u say no miner would look in your area?? I'm pretty sure I'd look over there. There are mines around there. Wouldn't surprise me if gold was over there. same as the 3 red hills as a area to look for gold. So in my book these areas would be crossed off besides being close water. The whole inside main parts of Sups are crossed off. Not saying there aren't other mines worthy of finding in there.
 

Idahodutch

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Why would u say no miner would look in your area?? I'm pretty sure I'd look over there. There are mines around there. Wouldn't surprise me if gold was over there. same as the 3 red hills as a area to look for gold. So in my book these areas would be crossed off besides being close water.
Harnish operations and clan had this area claimed up for almost 25 years. They blasted, drilled front and back, but looked in the wrong spots 😵‍💫. Bummer for sure.
If they could have just found it, they would have been able to keep it.
They looked where miners would look, and waltz said that won’t work 🥴
 

Idahodutch

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Harnish operations and clan had this area claimed up for almost 25 years. They blasted, drilled front and back, but looked in the wrong spots 😵‍💫. Bummer for sure.
If they could have just found it, they would have been able to keep it.
They looked where miners would look, and waltz said that won’t work 🥴
I’m a fate kind of guy. I believe they were not meant to find it.
I think I was NOT meant to open it up. Double bummer 😞
I still am very glad to have gotten to get this far.
No regrets 😎
 

Idahodutch

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A) Is this clue supposedly valid?

B) I see around the old posts people show this way off course - too far west.

Here is where I think it lines up - way to the east. East of the magnetic anomaly even. The idea of being lined up with those 4 peaks and still 'north' of Weaver's needle doesn't seem to work. What am I missing?

Is it some other 4 peaks? Coordinates please :D
ConceptualizedNetherlandr,
I’ve sure gotten some grief over this clue;
So maybe all those interested, may see for themselves, here are the coordinates for the spot shown, to view Four Peaks looking like one peak.

62BB44B6-FBAC-4E53-AB09-BCC0E9BA2359.jpeg

The next image just shows Four Peaks from a higher altitude, for ease of identification, and to give better indication of where on the skyline, the tip of one peak can be seen, when standing on that spot.
5EEC1901-23F9-426F-B702-203F7BB107ED.jpeg


To see the tip in first image, you may need to zoom in, or go to google earth and see for yourself.

In person, I saw what looked like just one peak. 😀
 
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393stroker

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I was thinking that the area where the LDM is, is in a location where 4 Peaks could be easily seen. And not lined up.
 

Idahodutch

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I was thinking that the area where the LDM is, is in a location where 4 Peaks could be easily seen. And not lined up.
Hi 393stroker,
4-Peaks looking like one peak, is talking about a part of the Holmes Manuscript, where it has Waltz giving Dick Holmes directions to the LDM, while literally on his deathbed.
Matthew Roberts has posted those directions from the manuscript on other threads here in the forums.
 

EDN

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Idahodutch,

Could you confirm the GPS coordinates above?

When I entered these in Google Earth, I got a location that looks very different (see attached).

PS: I could have entered the coordinates in wrong. I typically use decimal degrees because only numbers need to be entered and not the minute and second symbols. The equivalent location in decimal degrees is 32.462778°, -111.384722°.

PS: Thanks for sharing.

EDN
 

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Idahodutch

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Idahodutch,

Could you confirm the GPS coordinates above?

When I entered these in Google Earth, I got a location that looks very different (see attached).

PS: I could have entered the coordinates in wrong. I typically use decimal degrees because only numbers need to be entered and not the minute and second symbols. The equivalent location in decimal degrees is 32.462778°, -111.384722°.

PS: Thanks for sharing.

EDN
Good morning EDN,
I think I see what happened. 🤓
Try using the coordinates that I posted …
33. …… degrees N, not 32. …. degrees N
I think that will make a difference 😁👍

Ps- I acquired the image from google earth, using my phone.
I didn’t see settings for switching to decimal degrees, like when using a laptop. It’s just my phone now…

The spot is on the low ridge, north of bull pass, at the north end of Blacktop Mesa, just before dropping down into the switchbacks of Needle canyon.
There is a saddle that ties into the low ridge, on the north side.
Go through the saddle, up onto the highest point of the low ridge …
(almost right where the saddle ties into the low ridge).

Maybe that will be of help.
 
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