Cole Younger and Family, Quantrill's Boys and the Tombstone Tourist

[Benjamin Gates]

They use both eyes and Egyptian mythology to draw from along their way.

L.C.


P.S. If you believe this is why and how the four pillars came to be in Chicago, then why the four pillars in Nebraska City and Lincoln? Just shows you what lies and public speculations can cover up when it comes to secret societies.

Four Columns | The Morton Arboretum


P.S.S. Or the story that this is how these came about. https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/pioneers-park-pillars

Those columns in the first article said they were hollow! That would make a nice piggy bank!

 

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[Kace]

Without going into specifics of this trail and my speculations about the society....

View attachment 1593582

I'm not sure where you're going with this... there's a lot of Pyramid Mausoleums and buildings across the USA and Europe from during and after the Egyptian Revival period. Nic Cage even had one built 5-10yrs ago.

The Morton monument is round,flat topped and not Egyptian Revival. I don't remember it having eyes. Or an Eye.

I'd be interested in hearing how you're linking Senator Gwin and others monuments and mausoleums.

Sorry If I'm Slow Here...Too much going on... you're gonna have to help out a fellow Taphophile! lol!

Kace

 

[L.C. BAKER]

I'm not sure where you're going with this... there's a lot of Pyramid Mausoleums and buildings across the USA and Europe from during and after the Egyptian Revival period. Nic Cage even had one built 5-10yrs ago.

The Morton monument is round,flat-topped and not Egyptian Revival. I don't remember it having eyes. Or an Eye.

I'd be interested in hearing how you're linking Senator Gwin and others monuments and mausoleums.

Sorry If I'm Slow Here...Too much going on... you're gonna have to help out a fellow Taphophile! lol!

Kace

If you were a Freemason Kace it would be easier to explain to you. Have you ever thought of petitioning your local lodge? Try thinking out of the box in a metaphoric way. Remember, the Morton monument concealed artifacts that led to a K.G.C. trail that led to more artifacts and knowledge along the way. For over one hundred years it was viewed as art by the masses who looked at it like you are now, for what it looked like. It took a learned man to recognize the turtle as having the "possibility" of being more than a decoration on the railing to dig a little deeper.....about 10 inches deeper to be exact.

L.C.

 

[Kace]

If you were a Freemason Kace it would be easier to explain to you. Have you ever thought of petitioning your local lodge? Try thinking out of the box in a metaphoric way. Remember, the Morton monument concealed artifacts that led to a K.G.C. trail that led to more artifacts and knowledge along the way. For over one hundred years it was viewed as art by the masses who looked at it like you are now, for what it looked like. It took a learned man to recognize the turtle as having the "possibility" of being more than a decoration on the railing to dig a little deeper.....about 10 inches deeper to be exact.

L.C.

Now LC, we've been on enough threads together, you know I couldn't and wouldn't join the Freemason's...

It's just in my nature to go with hard facts and evidence when looking for something....Not trying to assume for any considerable length of time what someone or some group 130yrs ago was thinking. I do have quite a few Masons in my family though and I have had no problem keeping up. Knock On Wood.

They do teach Egyptian Mythology and Architecture in school, not just the masons do that and I travel a lot always visiting cemeteries wherever I am then researching the people who's tombstones interest me while there on downtime and I do know what a metaphor is, so I maybe, probably could grasp the concept even though I'm not a Mason.

I've read where you or one of your group dug that jar under the turtle's nose at the Morton plot... but because pretty much everyone I know including myself, parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles and long ago ancestors bury things in jars at tombstones or leave things in or around mausoleums that wasn't really earth shattering to me... If someone isn't familiar with that custom it's probably surprising. There's stuff buried at a couple of the people you've mentioned headstones here.

People left and still do leave jars to leave messages and momentos for others and the deceased and they've been added to over the years, sometimes there's more than one jar... kind of the first geocache system. Modern times there's a whole group that geocaches from satellite coordinates just WOW monuments. There's several cashes at Wyuka.

I get Barn's hunt completely...I might be leary of the source but I easily can see what he's doing by not relying solely on what someone said or wrote, that makes sense to me from his independent research of land and talking to all kinds of folks to the dig... and hopefully a recovery.

Anyway, good luck

Kace

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Now LC, we've been on enough threads together, you know I couldn't and wouldn't join the Freemason's...

It's just in my nature to go with hard facts and evidence when looking for something....Not trying to assume for any considerable length of time what someone or some group 130yrs ago was thinking. I do have quite a few Masons in my family though and I have had no problem keeping up. Knock On Wood.

They do teach Egyptian Mythology and Architecture in school, not just the masons do that and I travel a lot always visiting cemeteries wherever I am then researching the people who's tombstones interest me while there on downtime and I do know what a metaphor is, so I maybe, probably could grasp the concept even though I'm not a Mason.

I've read where you or one of your group dug that jar under the turtle's nose at the Morton plot... but because pretty much everyone I know including myself, parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles and long ago ancestors bury things in jars at tombstones or leave things in or around mausoleums that wasn't really earth shattering to me... If someone isn't familiar with that custom it's probably surprising. There's stuff buried at a couple of the people you've mentioned headstones here.

People left and still do leave jars to leave messages and momentos for others and the deceased and they've been added to over the years, sometimes there's more than one jar... kind of the first geocache system. Modern times there's a whole group that geocaches from satellite coordinates just WOW monuments. There's several cashes at Wyuka.

I get Barn's hunt completely...I might be leary of the source but I easily can see what he's doing by not relying solely on what someone said or wrote, that makes sense to me from his independent research of land and talking to all kinds of folks to the dig... and hopefully a recovery.

Anyway, good luck

Kace

 

[Rebel - KGC]

LOL!

 

[L.C. BAKER]

LOL!

Just to be understood, I am not making fun of anybody here Rebel, I am just showing my emotion and shock with another man's expression. He says it better than I can with words!
However, IMHO I believe as I have learned that "one person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind."

L.C.

 

[Kace]

Just to be understood, I am not making fun of anybody here Rebel, I am just showing my emotion and shock with another man's expression. He says it better than I can with words!
However, IMHO I believe as I have learned that "one person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind."

L.C.

LC...I don't know what that picture you posted was about... if you had emotions or shock by anything I wrote, why not ask me to explain further? I also don't understand what you said about 'EsteemS' to Rebel regarding my post, I've tried every Verb and Noun that fits Esteem or Esteemed and couldn't figure the sentence out. Please explain what you were saying if you don't mind. Thanks.

My post was in reply to yours where you came across saying that I should apply to be a Mason in order to understand your thoughts better...You know that's not possible and if it were, you know by my postings I wouldn't. Nothing against Masons but I'd have to choose the Mason's over the Church. I wouldn't do that.

If you were in shock by the Geocaching comments, ask me or research it. Geocaching has been going on for a long time, using detailed maps and compasses. It hit a really high level of popularity with the advent of affordable and portable GPS....people that have the same interests like cemeteries, tombstones and history have created subgroups like here and a lot of folks travel by RV or other vehicle across the country Geocaching certain tombstones like WOW monuments and other unique monuments and mausoleums. These caches are buried in and around monuments and mausoleums. There's many subgroups... a couple more are Corp of Engineer Lakes and Campgrounds and Civil War Battlefields....but there's a lot more.

What you can expect to find for instance at Wyuka, and there are several, would be a jar with code or ciphers... a skeleton key, possibility of a key to decipher the code which using these things after the skeleton key is found... the finder looks around to see what it could fit... (symbolically) which would be the Desk Monument of the Harding family is what you see there, remember you are only doing certain unique monuments.

Just to show you I'm telling you the truth, since you're up there, go look at and around the Harding monument. You'll probably find a pill size bottle with the next coordinates or coded instructions. Be sure and replace it. Newbies to the hobby sometimes remove the jars or containers that were there. Usually the Harding desk cache is in (meaning behind or next to something) or on the desk somewhere (could be held in place somehow) if not, it's not buried deep. If there's metal in it a pointer will pick it up.

All kinds of dates, coordinates to another cache location, numbers,and letters are used to find the next clue or cache. That's where you need the key to the codes... It's like a real treasure map and hunt. I told you where to look on this one, but normally you'd find clues to decipher that would lead you to the desk and the next clue to the cache which after finding the last one at Wyuka sends you to the next stop. If you are playing in the hunt, you are supposed to leave something in each cache and log it.

The Morton monument and the Rudge Chapel, Ganntt's monument along with the Propeller monument at Wyuka are also on the geocache map. Maybe a couple more now, I'd have to look.

You put out Wm. McKendree Gwin's pyramid mausoleum located in Oakland, CA at the Mountain View Cemetery... there are 3 Pyramid Mausoleums there.... it's another cemetery that's on the Geocaching lists.

Why I even brought up Geocaching is that where it use to be family and friends that left jars with momentos, keepsakes, photos and notes or letters at tombstones for several reasons that I mentioned before...it morphed into more and unfortunately for people that still practice this custom, Geocachers who do the destination trips to cemeteries also find these jars/containers and sometimes take what's in them and either put them back empty or change whats in them. Occasionally the whole jar is gone. There is a lake/park by my home and there's two Geocache's there and two at every private park/lake in the county... there is a person that makes things that identifies them by initials or a certain number or symbol and they put these things in every cache that they located. After it's found the next time, it's logged confirming it was found and added to by them. Usually you take one thing, replace it with whatever you want and log it.

It makes a theory like yours harder... to see if what you found or where you want to go could of been compromised it's a good idea to see if that cemetery or particular monument is on any of the many Geocaching lists. I'd hate to see you running cross country only to find your target has been found or Geocached!

If you ever have questions about anything I post, just ask... no need to throw a picture like that out. I'll explain myself. If you want to know anymore about these caches left at monuments or mausoleums, just ask. If I know the answer, I'll gladly share.

Kace

 

[L.C. BAKER]

It is not a theory, it is a fact on top of other facts and artifacts that were located in more than one place. Most importantly, it does not matter if you see what I see. Perhaps if you try the Bible you can find the word esteems in Romans 14:5

L.C.

 

[Kace]

It is not a theory, it is a fact on top of other facts and artifacts that were located in more than one place. Most importantly, it does not matter if you see what I see. Perhaps if you try the Bible you can find the word esteems in Romans 14:5

L.C.

You're exactly right in that it doesn't matter that I see what you do....You've never shown Anything for anyone to see to base an opinion on as far as a hunt.

Perhaps if you look at Your KJV Bible you'll see the word is Esteemeth... not Esteems. But that doesn't matter. Maybe some other Bible says Esteems.

This is a discussion forum, not a diary or book and so it's reasonable to expect a response to a post either in agreement or disagreement or to have questions asked or statements made. I'm not either agreeing or disagreeing...I've never seen anything at all you are doing regarding a hunt to form an opinion. Ive asked questions and did add to the monument part it to let you know that what you have written regarding finding things buried by monuments could of been compromised in the past or could be compromised in the future and why.

I have an interest in monuments, caches and geocaching. If you don't know the family it's sometimes hard to tell when or who put something there. Or if the family or friends of the deceased buried things at the plot... You've never mentioned caching so that's why I did. It wasn't to downplay what you said you've found. Although I don't know why posting a picture of a medallion would compromise anything... you said your drawing of it was exact and told the measurements when you asked members here to decode it for you. If the drawing was exact why not just post the real deal?

If you go through the KGC threads, you've posted the most and are the only one who hasn't shown any pictures other than old pictures that are publicly available and you distort a lot of those...,monuments in public historical cemeteries or Hand Drawn likenesses of what you said you've found. How could myself or anyone form an opinion? You always say you wish you could show or tell more... you even said that in your book. You also have said you know you do that. So until something is found and recovered it remains a theory... upon recovery of what you were hunting for it becomes a fact. On that... we all have the same rules.

Around Christmas last year I invited you and your father down here to see some tangible items and sites that are associated with a couple of the people you've mentioned thinking it would help you.. Remember? I even gave you more names and told you that I'd take you out to the farms here too. I know you can't get on them alone. According to you this hunt has been going on 48yrs... I wanted you to succeed With your father while there's time to enjoy it with him is why I invited you guys.

I really think you've got to stop getting mad if people don't readily jump on all of your thoughts in a positive way without asking more questions....all the snide comments you've made to Rebel and others when they've given other than what you want to hear opinions.. Now you're doing it to me Again...Don't forget that you asked for feedback regarding your book after a couple of reviews came in.... then posted you were basically learning and posting things to get responses which is what a discussion forum is. Talking down to folks who might be trying to give you a heads up or another line of thinking other than yours isn't right, but especially when you're trying to sell your thoughts.

On the hand sign thread when you got mad, you said you were going to have people up to see some of this hunt you're on to show what you are doing and that you needed funding and equipment... so it does remain a hunt...no recovery. I wouldn't of dumped on the opportunities that were presented to you if you really wanted to do a hunt ending in recovery with your Father.

If you are just wanting to write another book about guys who had interests in the Industrial Age and made good and went to the same schools and their interests overlapped and they belonged to the same fraternal societies, lived close to each other and were Masons and more than likely some shady stuff occurred between them, that's fine too..on the Masonic stuff I'd listen to Rebel and SD...Even Walker Colt, he's into that too and they all seem to know a lot of historical Masonic information... Rebel in the East and SD in the Midwest.... I don't remember where Colt is.

I'm not a unbeliever in significant amounts of valuables being hidden or stored away in plain sight and I am a complete believer in cemeteries being used for clues or hiding things. Like I said though with the popularity of geocaching the people that are caching in cemeteries are sometimes finding, taking or changing the things that could be helpful in a hunt like you've talked about. It makes it harder for anyone to tell what's what. The old private family cemeteries are typically not disturbed which there are two here I was planning on taking you and your father to thinking it might help you guys and a third is a little farther away but it's really good too. I know for a fact there are things buried at those places... that haven't been disturbed.

One quick side note... when my father returned from WWll he and the other boys who came back were running a bit wild like returning soldiers do sometimes, nothing bad just adjusting... anyway his uncles and some other guys that had been in WWI introduced the young guys to caching. I'm sure you've noticed that every old soldier has the black engineers compass. Well the older men took maps of the county and buried caches, then had the returning soldiers find and return them using the maps, notes and compasses within two days. They had to recover everything and bring it all back. Their reward was a rifle for each guy. The rifle my father got had belonged to his grandfather and then his father and he treasured it... he also taught me caching and after a few hunts and recoveries with his compass he gave me that rifle. I still have it. I also have his compass that he was trained on and used in the war. And I learned on it...It still works perfectly.

So now that we've explained ourselves, let's stop the bickering. I do wish the best for you and your father! Being Super Close to both my father and mother I understand.

Kace

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Again, it does not matter to me if we see the same thing. That should help explain to you why I also don't show anything that anyone could make use of on the same trail I am on. I feel like I could explain myself better to you if we were eye to eye. .Hell, you know how good I am at reading and writing, maybe we will meet one day soon.

L.C.

P.S. If you can critic the Bible for spelling errors I haven't got a chance in the book world!!! LMAO

 

[Kace]

Again, it does not matter to me if we see the same thing. That should help explain to you why I also don't show anything that anyone could make use of on the same trail I am on. I feel like I could explain myself better to you if we were eye to eye. .Hell, you know how good I am at reading and writing, maybe we will meet one day soon.

L.C.

P.S. If you can critic the Bible for spelling errors I haven't got a chance in the book world!!! LMAO

lol... I would never attempt to critique the KJV or St. Joseph Bible's spelling but there's a lot of different Bibles that folks use. Words are changed sometimes.

I Completely Agree It's Better To Talk Face To Face on this stuff or anything. I'll let you know when I'm up your way, probably be in the fall... but maybe sooner.

Kace

 

[L.C. BAKER]

lol... I would never attempt to critique the KJV or St. Joseph Bible's spelling but there's a lot of different Bibles that folks use. Words are changed sometimes.

I Completely Agree It's Better To Talk Face To Face on this stuff or anything. I'll let you know when I'm up your way, probably be in the fall... but maybe sooner.

Kace

I will look forward to it Kase! Just give me a day or two heads up.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

THAT would be a VERY interesting meeting! Have FUN!

 

[Kace]

THAT would be a VERY interesting meeting! Have FUN!

I'm looking forward to it! I always like to learn new things and if it involves history and cemeteries/tombstones...All the better!

There's a good chance there will be a lot in common with Baker's area and mine. I'm of the belief I can learn things from everyone and if I happen to know something that will be beneficial to him and his father, I'll gladly share to help them in their hunt.

I do think that we all come from different positions in life as far as our ethnicity, ancestors and what was shared or what records were kept, involvement in government and military, careers, our religion, where we live and access or involvement with historical groups... just about everything really and since 'we all just know what we know' it makes sense to me to share these things to get other perspectives. Just like the people from the past we are interested in... everyone was different and had different thoughts...which led to different actions.

I know for me, I have no need or interest in honing in on anyone else's hunt, but I like to see others perspectives and share anything I can that could be helpful to them...and maybe gain more insight to those things that I'm interested in.

Kace

 

[uglymailman]

Just a few thoughts about what's been said in this thread and a question. Where is and who has Henry Younger's cabin? Is it the City of Harrisonville, the County Historical Society or someone else? Could it be part of the stuff owned by the guy that bought up most of downtown Harrisonville before he died? (Dale Dunmire?)
I don't know why WOW would be anymore linked to KGC than the Oddfellows or anyone else. You think of Lodges being in the City's and towns of some size. Nothing could be further from the truth in our part of the world, Western Missouri. Most wide spots in the road had a Lodge of some sort. Boil it all down and it wasn't for fellowship or devotion to some belief. It was a way for a man to get away from the wife and kids on a Tuesday or Thursday night once or twice a month. Have a couple of pops, a cigar and a card game.
There are several lists of Quantrell's men. A list of at least one reunion. I doubt anyone on the rolls at the reunions were imposters. There were many men but not all rode all war long. A very big group only rode once and that was to Lawrence,Kansas to get the goods stolen from them in Osceola,Missouri.
Cole Younger KGC? I don't know. I do know he scouted for Prices Army and Price had pressure from some men associated with OAK. Cole said he was in Monterrey,Mexico when the war ended awaiting a shipment of Infield rifles. Another story has him out in California. Who did he ride west tearing up telegraph lines as he went for?
The one that intrigues me is Cole's brother in law Jarrett.(sp?) One story has him and his wife burning up in a house fire set by enemies. Another has him as a sheep rancher in California or AZ. and another has him buried in Canada. He was supposed to be out West with Cole at that time.
There are books by Todd and McCorkle that are interesting reads. They were Lt.'s under Quantrell. I tend to believe the boys that were there over the writings of the Yellow Press. Good luck.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

That is what takes the most time for me to do Mailman, sifting the grains of truth from the bull! You have to absorb it all for comparison before a person can decide for sure what is truth and what is not the truth, and then you still have to fill in some blanks. If there has been a cover-up by fraud then it becomes harder to sift. In my own speculations I am down to sifting grains of salt.....no pun intended

L.C.

 

[Kace]

Just a few thoughts about what's been said in this thread and a question. Where is and who has Henry Younger's cabin? Is it the City of Harrisonville, the County Historical Society or someone else? Could it be part of the stuff owned by the guy that bought up most of downtown Harrisonville before he died? (Dale Dunmire?)
I don't know why WOW would be anymore linked to KGC than the Oddfellows or anyone else. You think of Lodges being in the City's and towns of some size. Nothing could be further from the truth in our part of the world, Western Missouri. Most wide spots in the road had a Lodge of some sort. Boil it all down and it wasn't for fellowship or devotion to some belief. It was a way for a man to get away from the wife and kids on a Tuesday or Thursday night once or twice a month. Have a couple of pops, a cigar and a card game.
There are several lists of Quantrell's men. A list of at least one reunion. I doubt anyone on the rolls at the reunions were imposters. There were many men but not all rode all war long. A very big group only rode once and that was to Lawrence,Kansas to get the goods stolen from them in Osceola,Missouri.
Cole Younger KGC? I don't know. I do know he scouted for Prices Army and Price had pressure from some men associated with OAK. Cole said he was in Monterrey,Mexico when the war ended awaiting a shipment of Infield rifles. Another story has him out in California. Who did he ride west tearing up telegraph lines as he went for?
The one that intrigues me is Cole's brother in law Jarrett.(sp?) One story has him and his wife burning up in a house fire set by enemies. Another has him as a sheep rancher in California or AZ. and another has him buried in Canada. He was supposed to be out West with Cole at that time.
There are books by Todd and McCorkle that are interesting reads. They were Lt.'s under Quantrell. I tend to believe the boys that were there over the writings of the Yellow Press. Good luck.

Ug... The last I saw was a death certificate for John Jarrett from Greenwood, BC I believe. It says he passed in 1906 at 72yrs old from TB. There has been a new marker put up for him at his grave there but I haven't looked for Josie.

I was at a meeting with Del at Pearls Grill in Harrisonville and along with that he had also rehabbed another building called Younger's Bar... it was like an old west saloon type setting. It looked very cool.

There were other people there and someone asked if any of Youngers pocessions or building materials that had belonged to them had been used in building and decorating the bar...He said yes but he didn't elaborate before he moved on to other things... Not in a way to dodge questions... he just thought about a hundred things at once... always. That topic never came back around! lol!

I'll try and check with the Historical Society soon. They did have a Quantrill Militia Member tour for descendants and others in 2013 I think it was.

Kace

 

[White Heart]

Just a few thoughts about what's been said in this thread and a question. Where is and who has Henry Younger's cabin? Is it the City of Harrisonville, the County Historical Society or someone else? Could it be part of the stuff owned by the guy that bought up most of downtown Harrisonville before he died? (Dale Dunmire?)
I don't know why WOW would be anymore linked to KGC than the Oddfellows or anyone else. You think of Lodges being in the City's and towns of some size. Nothing could be further from the truth in our part of the world, Western Missouri. Most wide spots in the road had a Lodge of some sort. Boil it all down and it wasn't for fellowship or devotion to some belief. It was a way for a man to get away from the wife and kids on a Tuesday or Thursday night once or twice a month. Have a couple of pops, a cigar and a card game.
There are several lists of Quantrell's men. A list of at least one reunion. I doubt anyone on the rolls at the reunions were imposters. There were many men but not all rode all war long. A very big group only rode once and that was to Lawrence,Kansas to get the goods stolen from them in Osceola,Missouri.
Cole Younger KGC? I don't know. I do know he scouted for Prices Army and Price had pressure from some men associated with OAK. Cole said he was in Monterrey,Mexico when the war ended awaiting a shipment of Infield rifles. Another story has him out in California. Who did he ride west tearing up telegraph lines as he went for?
The one that intrigues me is Cole's brother in law Jarrett.(sp?) One story has him and his wife burning up in a house fire set by enemies. Another has him as a sheep rancher in California or AZ. and another has him buried in Canada. He was supposed to be out West with Cole at that time.
There are books by Todd and McCorkle that are interesting reads. They were Lt.'s under Quantrell. I tend to believe the boys that were there over the writings of the Yellow Press. Good luck.

Ug,
The Arizona masonic web site includes WOW as a Masonic organization.

Here is a MKT/WOW monument from 1919, in a Catholic cemetery.
WH

 

[Rebel - KGC]

View attachment 1604620

Ug,
The Arizona masonic web site includes WOW as a Masonic organization.

Here is a MKT/WOW monument from 1919, in a Catholic cemetery.
WH

Well, The "Lodge" WILL accept Catholics; I have known a few, myself in @ 3 "Blue Lodges". Those Brothers later became MKT via RAM of the YORK RITE.