✅ SOLVED Colonial era watch face

[DownNDirty]

I found this at a plantation site that was active from the 1680s until the early 1780s. The house was destroyed in the early 1780s and never rebuilt; I have found many relics there from the 18th century.

I'm confident that it is the face of a pocket watch but I can't pin down the maker. It is exactly 1.5 inches in diameter. There are letters in an upper and lower banner inside the circle. The upper banner contains 3 letters which look like either "RUX" or "AUX", or possibly "HUX". I think that the lower banner says "LONDON" but I'm not sure.

Any input on this piece will be greatly appreciated. It's an interesting relic and I want to learn as much as I can about it-and a maker's name would be awesome.

 

[huntsman53]

I could be wrong but I believe it is a 17th Century or earlier Sundial. IMHO, the plate appears too thick, too rough and somewhat too crude to be a face dial to a Pocket Watch!

https://www.google.com/search?q=17t...suBmQGT04DwDQ#tbm=isch&q=17th+century+sundial


Frank

 

[DownNDirty]

I could be wrong but I believe it is a 17th Century or earlier Sundial. IMHO, the plate appears too thick, too rough and somewhat too crude to be a face dial to a Pocket Watch!

https://www.google.com/search?q=17t...suBmQGT04DwDQ#tbm=isch&q=17th+century+sundial


Frank

Thanks Frank! My first thought when I found it was sundial, but after looking at it I was leaning toward watch face because of the small round hole in the middle. I wasn't sure that the "arm" if you will of a sundial would attach only in the middle or if it would also be connected on the edge. Then again I know next to nothing about sundials.

That is a very real possibility-as I said in my post, the plantation was started in the early 1680s, and I have found the handle of a "trifid" spoon on the same site-they were made in the latter half of the 17th century.

 

[SkaBa]

Curious, why would the outside edge be 'geared'?

 

[DownNDirty]

Curious, why would the outside edge be 'geared'?

I was wondering that too. Could it be notches/settings for the raised piece that casts a shadow?

 

[SkaBa]

I was wondering that too. Could it be notches/settings for the raised piece that casts a shadow?

I was thinking along those thoughts, too.

 

[kcm]

Curious, why would the outside edge be 'geared'?

Better question yet is, why aren't the gear teeth(?) evenly spaced? Starting at the 12:00 position, they seem to be evenly spaced until you get to the 8:00 position. Then it gets weird.

 

[Carolina Tom]

DND... that is a really nice find. I believe it is a sundial. Somebody found one last year... I believe it went banner.

Congrats and excellent save!

 

[DownNDirty]

DND... that is a really nice find. I believe it is a sundial. Somebody found one last year... I believe it went banner.

Congrats and excellent save!

Thanks Tom. I want to get a good id before I post in "Today's Finds" but I will do that soon.

 

[OutdoorAdv]

Welp.... that thing is amazing Glenn! I think sundial too. Here is the one Tom mentioned from last year http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/b...ded-up-finding-awesome-relic.html#post4557203 They look similar to me. I can't wait to see what others say about this thing.

Brad

 

[DownNDirty]

Welp.... that thing is amazing Glenn! I think sundial too. Here is the one Tom mentioned from last year http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/b...ded-up-finding-awesome-relic.html#post4557203 They look similar to me. I can't wait to see what others say about this thing.

Brad

Thanks Brad. Hopefully with help I can pin down the maker, or at least estimate a ballpark date range.

 

[DownNDirty]

And I will be the first to say that I did go overboard with the cleaning. I was trying to bring out more detail but I should have quit while I was ahead. I should know better.

I believe it is made of pewter but I'm not totally certain. To be on the safe side I will give it a good coat of briwax to protect it from deterioration.

 

[Bill D. (VA)]

I think what you have is probably part of an 18th century pocket sundial. I found one quite a few years ago, and if I can find it I'll post a pic. Great find!

 

[DownNDirty]

I think what you have is probably part of an 18th century pocket sundial. I found one quite a few years ago, and if I can find it I'll post a pic. Great find!

Thanks Bill!

 

[DirtStalker]

You better start lisening Glenn or your tickets to this years festival will never arrive.

 

[mojjax]

maybe an alarm setting dial from an old clock . http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/what/156413-i-dunno.html?highlight=sundial

 

[CRUSADER]

Tough one.

Firstly the 'gearing' was done later & not during manufacture, so is a red herring.

The numerals are not accurately placed to be a clock, & I'm not sure they are right for a sundial but it is the better option. There were many 18th C rich kid toys that were similar but not quite right either. So I'm stumped.


Lastly, looks like a ?UX. (LONDON)

 

[DownNDirty]

Tough one.

Firstly the 'gearing' was done later & not during manufacture, so is a red herring.

The numerals are not accurately placed to be a clock, & I'm not sure they are right for a sundial but it is the better option. There were many 18th C rich kid toys that were similar but not quite right either. So I'm stumped.


Lastly, looks like a ?UX. (LONDON)

Thanks Cru

 

[DownNDirty]

Tough one.

Firstly the 'gearing' was done later & not during manufacture, so is a red herring.

The numerals are not accurately placed to be a clock, & I'm not sure they are right for a sundial but it is the better option. There were many 18th C rich kid toys that were similar but not quite right either. So I'm stumped.


Lastly, looks like a ?UX. (LONDON)

Mystery solved-Crusader was spot on when he mentioned the toy watches. I found the exact same item (only a little smaller) at the UK Portable Antiquities web site:

https://finds.org.uk/database/artefacts/record/id/279671

"A Post Medieval cast lead alloy watch face from a toy watch dating 1700-1750. This is a Forsyth & Egan (2005) Type 8 Design 1: a multi-component watch with a plain case, angular profile and integrally cast pendant loop. The surviving element here is the dial which would have been recessed and supported on an internal flange just below the rim of the case with the rim pushed over the edge of the dial. The dial plates has a plain outer band and a circumferential groove which encloses the chapter ring, and all are marked with engraved Roman hour numerals I-XII and slashes to indicate the half-hours. A plain inner band encircles the dial centre which is decorated with raised baroque scrolling around two cartouches, the upper inscribed HUX and the lower LONDON. The hand is missing. The centre of the dial is pierced to accommodate the single hand and the edges of the hole thickened to lift it above the decoration and facilitate rotation.
This watch face is very similar to no.12.43 illustrated in Forsyth & Egan (2005:372-3) dated 1700-1750."

 

[DownNDirty]

"Forsyth & Egan (2005:371-2) write of Type 8 watches: "These circular watches are the only known type with moving parts and a simple mechanism. They are a very good imitation of English or French pair-case watches dating from about 1700 to the mid 18th century...The relief baroque scrolling on the toy watches imitates repoussé work on a genuine timepiece and the cartouche inscriptions: HUX and LONDON mimic the late 17th and early 18th century enthusiasm for putting the maker's name and sometimes the place of production on the face of a watch. Hux was a member of the Worshipful Company of Pewterers."
"From limited evidence, however, it seems that the hand is attached to a central rod or strut of cast lead alloy which passes straight through the case to the winder hole at the back. This meant that the time could be altered by turning the rod with the fingers, or possibly with a crank-winding key... The winder hole is surrounded by a ratchet of radial grooves and ridges and a simple leaf spring or strip of copper was inserted into the central rod so that the lower end was held in tension against the ratchet. Each turn of the winder lifted the strip of copper out of one groove into the next so that continual rotation produced a ticking sound."

The bolded text explains the purpose of the notches.