Copper Point

[Deftone]

HI all! Been out in the field scouting for new spots. Just looking for places where a sod house or a dugout would have been. After about an hour of hiking I came across some broken glass and a few pieces of crocks. So I started swinging. After about 15 minutes of diggin square nails I nailed my very 1st injun. An 1890! My oldest coin to boot.

Well, after doing the happy dance for a while I continued for about another hour noticing I wandered quite a way's from my newly found spot weaving in n out of the sage brush. On my way back I got a nice signal. About six inches down this point popped out from the side of the hole. From the size of it it took me a little bit to realize what I had found. Anyway's it has me pumped up and I thought that I would share this with yall! Thx for looking and HH!

 

[oklahomadigger]

love them INDIANS,and the Point is AWESOME

 

[Deftone]

love them INDIANS,and the Point is AWESOME

Thx digger! where are you at in Okla if I may ask?

 

[g-olden years]

What a day! You wandered to the right spot for your copper point, wow! Let us know what else you find in that area if you return there, and I hope you do go back. HH Andi

 

[Rick (Nova Scotia)]

Good find, not many posted.

 

[romeo-1]

That's a beauty! I wonder if it's copper culture...regardless it's an amazing find!

 

[Bill-MS]

Very Nice! Congrats

 

[Theakiki]

That's a beauty! I wonder if it's copper culture...regardless it's an amazing find!

That's what I wonder. If it's copper culture, isn't it a long way from home?

Is it a trade piece?
It's a great find, and I'm jealous! Please post on the American Indian section and see what they have to say!

 

[High Plains Digger]

That's interesting. I don't know much about the copper culture, but I do know that frontier blacksmiths that knocked these kind of things out probably wouldn't have made it in copper. Too expensive. And much of the iron was free (barrel bands). Quite the dicotomy. I wonder how sturdy copper was for a point? Too small for effective used on buffalo, but would it keep an edge and penetrate deer or elk? Does it look like the edge had been sharpened? Very interesting and thought provoking item.

 

[kuger]

That's interesting. I don't know much about the copper culture, but I do know that frontier blacksmiths that knocked these kind of things out probably wouldn't have made it in copper. Too expensive. And much of the iron was free (barrel bands). Quite the dicotomy. I wonder how sturdy copper was for a point? Too small for effective used on buffalo, but would it keep an edge and penetrate deer or elk? Does it look like the edge had been sharpened? Very interesting and thought provoking item.

Thats what I was thinking too.Yours is the typical Plains Tribe type point usually made from iron barrel bands.I have never seen one fashioned from copper.Very cool find!!!!

 

[Deftone]

Hey all! Thx for all the replies. To answer some questions from HPD yes it seems pretty sturdy. I can see where the edges have been sharpened. It looks like it was razor sharp in its day I bet it would have easily penetrated a deer. Dunno if it would've had the stopping power.
Thanks for that Kuger you are spot on. Here is a link that someone sent me. http://www.ou.edu/cas/archsur/OKArtifacts/metalpt.htm There it has an example like the one I found. Thanks for all of your interest. HH

 

[kuger]

,thats a great piece.These were more deadly than previous stone points in warfare as they would rapidly rust causing all kinds of infection

 

[jimmatt_43]

Great finds,love that point.

 

[High Plains Digger]

There are 2 points in the literature that are absolutely spot on to yours. Does it say anything about who produced these? I assume the Kiowas, Comanche, and a few of the other plains tribes didn't do it. Wow--just read the attached info and it says the indians made them, as well as traders. You buy that, Kuger? You would have to carry around an anvil, hammer, chisel or whatever they used to cut that, and iron stock. That would be a lot for the nomadic lifestyle. Everyone--go a read that link, it is short. I am sure these points were expensive, as in lots of furs, and the flint/agate/pertrified wood/chert/obsidian that they had to work with was cheaper or free, and probably was sharper and held an edge better than even iron. But the article almost seem to indicate that stone was obsolete by 1750. Not buying that one either. If I remember right, there was some mention of stone arrowheads at Little Bighorn.

 

[IAMZIM]

Wow! Beautiful point!

 

[Burdie]

I might add some information on Indians working with metal on the plains. The French also gave tin plates to the Indians for furs. The tin came in various thickness. I have found points and seen points that where very outstanding in craftmanship. They made religious crosses as well as animal objects. I found Indian markings on pieaces of tin. With sand rock they would sharpen the front side and then on the other side sharpen the back side. This caused the arrow to spin. I believe they had community sites that they used to make thier various items. I believe I have hunted on one of these sites. Here are a few items found in and near Oklahoma. First I want to say this is for information not to take over this thread. Congratulations the copper point is a great find for sure. WTG!!



Burdie

 

[Woodland Detectors]

Hey all! Thx for all the replies. To answer some questions from HPD yes it seems pretty sturdy. I can see where the edges have been sharpened. It looks like it was razor sharp in its day I bet it would have easily penetrated a deer. Dunno if it would've had the stopping power.
Thanks for that Kuger you are spot on. Here is a link that someone sent me. http://www.ou.edu/cas/archsur/OKArtifacts/metalpt.htm There it has an example like the one I found. Thanks for all of your interest. HH

What a beautiful point. It sure walks like a duck. It's a banner find!

 

[High Plains Digger]

Hi Burdie---It appears that you may have some evidence that plains indians may have made iron items. I can't say they didn't, I just find it hard to comprehend. I would still wonder if these things are originally made by a blacksmith and traded. I have no doubt that the indians knew how to shapen a piece of iron or steel on a piece of sandstone, and even scratch an engraving on it. I have seen photos of the iron arrowheads and spear points that a guy found at the "battle" of Summit Springs. But having doubts about the origin, I can't stand nose to nose with you and fight about it! But I can change my mind........... It is just that it takes a lot of tools to cut the stuff. That is where copper is a little more understandable than iron

On a side line, yes the Aztecs knew how to work gold. But the Navajo and Zuni didn't know about silver until the Spanish gave them tools and coins. And if they have ever found pre Spanish metal in a Mound excavation, I haven't heard, but again, no expertise there. Maybe some one else will chime in and shoot me down, but I just can't believe iron work by STONE AGE people. I don't want to make this the dowsing conversation all over again.

 

[Deftone]

Hey thx Zim! Wow Burdie, very nice pieces you have there. That's the same way this point was sharpened! Thank you for the info. Walks like a duck haha!
I've seen on a few sites that the indians were given sheet metal along with tools for working it from the europeans or whoever. But it's hard to find much information about metal points or what tribes were in the Okla panhandle. Very interesting tho.

 

[Ia.FurTrade]

Go to the Fur Trade forum & you will see more of these, ( iron & brass ), not an uncommon find on these sites. You can see some on my earlier posts. Mine date from 1780-1820.
They were made by the Indians. They used tools traded from the White Men ( files, snips,etc.)
Your style point with the "serrated" base is more common to the second half of the 19th. century.
Dale