Cops send me away

[jimzz977]

Well got up early this morning and when to my favorite place which is the field they had the warp tour. Got there around 0630 hrs and no one was around , after about hour I noticed people arriving and saw them fly remote control planes I stayed away from them , I continued to hunt and noticed some the guys pointing in my direction and got a strong 95 on my detector and as I was digging it up two cops approached me and told me that metal detecting was not allowed and I had to leave, I advised them I had call in to police dept and they stated that detecting was allowed . Cops stated they checkd they were told no detecting on campus. So cover the plug I was digging with the strong 95 reading and left. But still had some good finds.

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

reply

Since you cant detect there now no matter what, I would look into it because you have nothing to lose. Find out why they are allowed to fly their DANGEROUS planes and you cant detect. Good luck.

lookin-down, don't be so quick to think a booting like this equates to a "new rule" . As you can see from the OP's text, it appears that the *only* reason the cops came, was d/t some busy-bodies call. And perhaps those cops were just duty-bound to satisfy the griper.

I've had situations like that, where ..... I've just treated them as "isolated incidents" (barring an actual rule that REALLY said "no metal detectors".) And just given that singlular park or school a rest, and just gone back later. I have lots of parks like that, where I can detect till I'm blue in the face, yet....... someone way-back-when, whether me, or someone else, had at one time "gotten the boot". So you can see, that a mere "booting" does NOT necessarily constitute a "law" or a "rule".

I am reminded of a humorous incident where an md'r got booted from a school, in the late 1960s, in a city near me. An irate janitor had come out to boot him. The humble and apologetic md'rs says "uh, ok, how about the school down the street?" The janitor says "not there either". So the dejected md'r says: "ok then, how about the park downtown?" At this point, the janitor was becoming peeved at the questions, so he just made matters simple for the MD'r: "no metal detecting at any school or park in this town. It's not allowed".

The md'r left, with his tail between his legs He proceeded to pass on word to other md'rs in my area, during the 1970s, that "such & such town is entirely off-limits". I remember hearing that, when I was a new md'r. And "who was I to question my mentors?". But as the 1980s wore on, there were a few parks in that town that started producing barbers and such. So some friends and I would start making the trek to this town to md. Still though, in the back of my mind, I could still recall the warning that this "town was off-limits". Yet ... I never knew why, except that so & so said so.

So one day, in the 1990s, I ran into this old friend, and asked him: "who told you such & such town was off-limits?". He thought for a few minutes, and recalled that it was his older brother who'd told him that. So I said, "well who told him that?" He didn't know. So ... the matter was dropped. However, a few years after that, I had the opportunity to be detecting with that brother. So I asked him: "your brother says you told him that such & such town was off-limits. Who told you that?". He had to think for a minute, because, by now, it was 25 or so years later! Finally he remember, that his older brother had told him! (the oldest of 3 brothers). So I said, OK THEN, WHO TOLD HIM that it was "off-limits"? And it was then that he recounted that the older brother had been booted, and warned, etc... And had thus "promptly put out the information to other md'rs".

Thus you can see, isolated bootings do not necessarily equate to "law". Now sure, if you go "get it clarified" and "get the booting over-turned", then sure, you can MAKE them cause it to be official. But is that a wise idea?

 

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[NJcigarman]

jimzz977, more things I noticed implicit in your story:

a) From 6:30am to 7:30am (the first hour), you had no problems. Right? You detected to your heart's content, and no one cared, right? It was only after some of those radio control airplane people arrived, that any "problems" started. I know you said you kept your distance from them (that was logical), but the point still remains: Sometimes our best times to hunt spots, is low-to-no traffic. Like that first hour you were hunting.

b) you say "some guys were pointing in your direction" (to the cops?) is when the problem started. Sounds to me like it was the radio control people who called the cops. Then put yourself in the cop's shoes: They get a call from someone, and have to show up. Now they have to "please mr. or mrs. griper" . They have to make their trip all the way there have some merit. So they boot you. In other words, if that SAME cop had been just happen-chance driving by that park, perhaps he personally wouldn't have cared less! It's only upon getting a call, and have to come out, and mentally go through some silly exercise of whether or not "something is allowed" or not. Again, this sounds like point (a) above, that the best times are out-of-site-is-out-of-mind. I do not equate the booting by a cop, if I know the reason he is there is because some dog-walker or kite-flyer called, to automatically mean: "therefore, detecting is not allowed". Because a lot of times (unless the cop cites some actual real & specific "no detecting" rule), they are simply appeasing a griper. So you let that park "take a break", and merely go back a few weeks later. Oh sure, be sure to avoid that one dog-walker or kite-flyer from then on.

Because there's no escaping the connotations that our hobby has. That you "might hurt the grass" (even though YOU know you won't, yet anyone can level the accusation if they're in a bad mood).

So I've gotten to where I work parks, when I can, at the most vacant-of-times. Even at night for pete's sake. Not necessarily because "it's not allowed" or that there's any rules, but simply ........ well ........ you gotta treat this hobby like nose-picking: not illegal .... but .... we all sort of use a little discretion in our timing.

As a retired cop this is exactly what happened. Go back when nobody else is around.

 

[Ronzie]

The way it's going, drones will be watching out for metal detectorists.

 

[lookindown]

lookin-down, don't be so quick to think a booting like this equates to a "new rule" . As you can see from the OP's text, it appears that the *only* reason the cops came, was d/t some busy-bodies call. And perhaps those cops were just duty-bound to satisfy the griper.

I've had situations like that, where ..... I've just treated them as "isolated incidents" (barring an actual rule that REALLY said "no metal detectors".) And just given that singlular park or school a rest, and just gone back later. I have lots of parks like that, where I can detect till I'm blue in the face, yet....... someone way-back-when, whether me, or someone else, had at one time "gotten the boot". So you can see, that a mere "booting" does NOT necessarily constitute a "law" or a "rule".

I am reminded of a humorous incident where an md'r got booted from a school, in the late 1960s, in a city near me. An irate janitor had come out to boot him. The humble and apologetic md'rs says "uh, ok, how about the school down the street?" The janitor says "not there either". So the dejected md'r says: "ok then, how about the park downtown?" At this point, the janitor was becoming peeved at the questions, so he just made matters simple for the MD'r: "no metal detecting at any school or park in this town. It's not allowed".

The md'r left, with his tail between his legs He proceeded to pass on word to other md'rs in my area, during the 1970s, that "such & such town is entirely off-limits". I remember hearing that, when I was a new md'r. And "who was I to question my mentors?". But as the 1980s wore on, there were a few parks in that town that started producing barbers and such. So some friends and I would start making the trek to this town to md. Still though, in the back of my mind, I could still recall the warning that this "town was off-limits". Yet ... I never knew why, except that so & so said so.

So one day, in the 1990s, I ran into this old friend, and asked him: "who told you such & such town was off-limits?". He thought for a few minutes, and recalled that it was his older brother who'd told him that. So I said, "well who told him that?" He didn't know. So ... the matter was dropped. However, a few years after that, I had the opportunity to be detecting with that brother. So I asked him: "your brother says you told him that such & such town was off-limits. Who told you that?". He had to think for a minute, because, by now, it was 25 or so years later! Finally he remember, that his older brother had told him! (the oldest of 3 brothers). So I said, OK THEN, WHO TOLD HIM that it was "off-limits"? And it was then that he recounted that the older brother had been booted, and warned, etc... And had thus "promptly put out the information to other md'rs".

Thus you can see, isolated bootings do not necessarily equate to "law". Now sure, if you go "get it clarified" and "get the booting over-turned", then sure, you can MAKE them cause it to be official. But is that a wise idea?

The only reason I would look into it is because he has been told by the police, whether they are right or wrong, that its not allowed. I just go and detect city or public property with out asking anyone but when the police tell you its not allowed its time to find out.

 

[jimzz977]

Thanks for the responses like said those rc planes operators call me in , cause I hunted the field 6 other times with three more md'ers with me and seen cops just pass by and also forgot those damn rc plane operators were buzzing me like gun runs on me. Yea going to let it cool off for bit and see if can get some written paper. One of the officers while I was covering the plug stated quote" wow you can't tell that there was hole dug ". I told the officer that's we do it we leave no trace we digging. Thanks got input

 

[MiamiFox]

I'd like to see you go back at 6AM and dig that strong 95 reading and lets us know what you find.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.....but when the police tell you its not allowed its time to find out.

Well, yes, he has "found out" by virtue of the fact that: a) as he says, cops on other occasions have passed him by, and never cared. b) the only reason a cop "cared" this time, was because the RC people griped (and a cop had to "please a griper"). Thus c) no, it's not good to go seek clarification, lest you only end up getting an actual rule, to "address this pressing issue". Or d), at best, if someone is "still worried", they can look up muni and park codes for themselves. If nothing there says "no detecting", then presto, there's your answer. (just avoid those RC people in the future, and give it a break for a few months in the meantime).

 

[lookindown]

Well, yes, he has "found out" by virtue of the fact that: a) as he says, cops on other occasions have passed him by, and never cared. b) the only reason a cop "cared" this time, was because the RC people griped (and a cop had to "please a griper"). Thus c) no, it's not good to go seek clarification, lest you only end up getting an actual rule, to "address this pressing issue". Or d), at best, if someone is "still worried", they can look up muni and park codes for themselves. If nothing there says "no detecting", then presto, there's your answer. (just avoid those RC people in the future, and give it a break for a few months in the meantime).

All park codes say "no digging" or either "no destruction"...there's your answer.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

All park codes say "no digging" or either "no destruction"...there's your answer.

And what is the intent and implication of such verbage? Holes and damage, of course. In other words, if you leave an area exactly as you found it, then technically, you have not alterED, defacED, or destructED anything, now have you? Yes, if the word "digging" appears in muni or park code, then I admit, this is more problemsome (because of the temporary evil process of extraction). I would still argue that the intent of that word, is the end result of damage and holes. Yes I know that not everyone agrees with those semantics. Can't you go at lower traffic times and avoid gripers?

But sure, if you think such verbage precludes you (and that detecting automatically = "destruction" in your vocabulary), then by all means, don't detect. Heck, I bet even on beaches which might "allow" digging (kids dig sand castles afterall), yet I bet there's verbage there that you run afoul of, if you asked enough questions. Like verbage that disallows "harvesting" or "collecting" (so that no one thinks they can back their pickup truck to the beach to start harvesting sand). Could such verbage apply to singular coins or seashells? SURE! Just keep asking long enough and hard enough, and you can find a no at any place you like.

 

[gleaner1]

The op needs to work that spot at a more appropriate time when it's just right like in the evening after dark perhaps. That's the ticket. No need to arm wrestle the uppity RC plane dudes. jimzz was unwittingly interfering with their electronic turf. They dont like that.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

reply

The op needs to work that spot at a more appropriate time when it's just right like in the evening after dark perhaps. That's the ticket. No need to arm wrestle the uppity RC plane dudes. jimzz was unwittingly interfering with their electronic turf. They dont like that.

exactly gleaner1 !! Some people might call that "sneaking around". Well ... ALRIGHT THEN, "sneak around". Sheesk, for pete's sake we all use a little discretion in our "timing" of certain things anyhow (when we pick our noses, etc...). So ... sure ... if you wanna call that sneaking around, fine then, do it. I wish everyone loved us and our hobby, but unfortunately, sometimes you have to ... uh ... use a little "discretion" for petes sake.

 

[lookindown]

And what is the intent and implication of such verbage? Holes and damage, of course. In other words, if you leave an area exactly as you found it, then technically, you have not alterED, defacED, or destructED anything, now have you? Yes, if the word "digging" appears in muni or park code, then I admit, this is more problemsome (because of the temporary evil process of extraction). I would still argue that the intent of that word, is the end result of damage and holes. Yes I know that not everyone agrees with those semantics. Can't you go at lower traffic times and avoid gripers?

But sure, if you think such verbage precludes you (and that detecting automatically = "destruction" in your vocabulary), then by all means, don't detect. Heck, I bet even on beaches which might "allow" digging (kids dig sand castles afterall), yet I bet there's verbage there that you run afoul of, if you asked enough questions. Like verbage that disallows "harvesting" or "collecting" (so that no one thinks they can back their pickup truck to the beach to start harvesting sand). Could such verbage apply to singular coins or seashells? SURE! Just keep asking long enough and hard enough, and you can find a no at any place you like.

If you ask enough , you will eventually get a NO and if you look up the written rules, most times you will get a technical NO...so just go tectin and don't worry about it..thats what I do.

 

[Nickleanddime]

Sorry but I don't agree with the "little discretion" comments. I was raised that no means no and that's final. You don't go behind someone's back and do it anyways. Letting these little moral slips is what's slowly driving specify into the pit.

So basically if I come to your house and you say no, then if I use a l"little discretion" and come back when your boy home or in bed you wouldn't be mad?

Do unto others as you wish to have done unto you is a quote from a book a lot of people on here problay claim they live by. I'm not saying I'm a angle but like I said no means no, as well as the number one rule of metal detecting is, always have permission.

 

[dholland02]

Id just keep going back in the early morning. Screw those people.

 

[Sandman]

It just might be the radio controlled planes are affected by the metal detector.

 

[MiamiFox]

It just might be the radio controlled planes are affected by the metal detector.

You may be right Sandman the radio controlled plane guy's probably had control problems in the past.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

reply

Sorry but I don't agree with the "little discretion" comments. I was raised that no means no and that's final. You don't go behind someone's back and do it anyways. Letting these little moral slips is what's slowly driving specify into the pit.

So basically if I come to your house and you say no, then if I use a l"little discretion" and come back when your boy home or in bed you wouldn't be mad?

Do unto others as you wish to have done unto you is a quote from a book a lot of people on here problay claim they live by. I'm not saying I'm a angle but like I said no means no, as well as the number one rule of metal detecting is, always have permission.

nickleandime, I see the ethical dilema here. And I realize why this sounds shady.

Even if we can realize that the ONLY reason for a booting was because someone griped (and that there's really no law, and that it's realistically an isolated case), yet you're saying that *technically* that cop or gardener's booting, in effect "becomes" law, from then on out, right?

Ok, what do you do in a case like this true story then: The state of CA beaches can be detected, and no one's ever had a problem. However, one time, a buddy of mine *just happened* to run into a state archie on the beach. It was just a fluke timing coincidence, that the archie was showing up at that beach, getting ready to give a lecture at a little beach-side museum there. And as he got out of his car, to walk to the lecture, he turned, and saw my friend down on the beach. He went down and read my friend the riot act!! My friend was taken off gaurd, because .... we all *know* you can detect beaches here, so certainly the archie was mistaken! Eventually, without either of them giving in, the archie stormed off (perhaps he was going to get a ranger, or who knows).

My friend reported this incident on a local CA forum. Other beach hunters here read it, thinking this archie had no basis for the claims. And that it would be an "easy notion to dispel". HOWEVER, the more we looked into the minutia of the state parks codes (cultural heritage, etc..), the more we realized that we'd better "leave good enough alone". Certainly the archie would go back to Sacramento, and the odds of him ever running into an md'r on the beach were a million to one.

So really .... in a case like that ...... can't you see how sometimes we DO have to treat some incidents as .... "isolated incidents" ? Or do you figure that this means a new rule, and that now all the CA beaches are off-limits to all md'rs? Or perhaps only off-limits to just that one hunter? (who must now stay home while the rest of us face no such restrictions?)

I suppose you could say the answer to this dilema is to "go get it clarified so as to prove this archie wrong", eh? We thought about that. But as I say, the more we looked into the minutia, the more we realized that that's the LAST thing we would want to do, lest we merely open up a can of worms that really DOES become a new policy, when asking for sanctions, clarifications, etc....

So while I understand your stance, yet, ... can you understand that sometimes certain situations do need to be treated as merely "avoid the one griper" ?

 

[cudamark]

Sorry but I don't agree with the "little discretion" comments. I was raised that no means no and that's final. You don't go behind someone's back and do it anyways. Letting these little moral slips is what's slowly driving specify into the pit.

So basically if I come to your house and you say no, then if I use a l"little discretion" and come back when your boy home or in bed you wouldn't be mad?

Do unto others as you wish to have done unto you is a quote from a book a lot of people on here problay claim they live by. I'm not saying I'm a angle but like I said no means no, as well as the number one rule of metal detecting is, always have permission.

That would depend on who is the one saying "NO". A property owner is the final word on private land. Public land has too many chiefs to know who actually is in charge. A "NO" by one official's whim can be overturned by anothers. That is why the rules are written down for all to look up. If it's not specified that there is no metal detecting, then it's open for interpretation as to whether other wordage applies. Best to leave it a grey area than have a fast and final "NO" apply to our hobby by having it spelled out in municipal code.

 

[gleaner1]

.