dagger

[milan]

was found in the Sava River in the northern part of the Republic of Serbska ex bosnia and herzegovina.
What is interesting in this is that the dagger is very old but is not covered with rust and handle is apparently made of gold,
on the handle is shown lion or a wolf on the back of a bull with big horns
Does anyone know anything about this kind of dagger
Today I add two pictures of Egyptian knives, to see and hear your opinions

 

[milan]

If in fact it is genuine and because it shows no rust or degradation from being in the water, I have the following theory! If there have been recent floods on the Sava River, I would think that it is possible that a Cache of treasures and precious items washed out during a flood or could even be from a Burial Site of someone of importance that was washed out by floods. If it in fact turns out to be genuine, you should go back an search as much of the river upstream and downstream from where you made the find. If possible search deeper center-river spots but I would bet that if there are more treasures to be found, they may be closer to the river's banks and possibly even on the banks themselves.


Frank

every few years in this area happen big floods, but this dagger was found on the part of the river where the river never pours out of the riverbed

 

[Plumbata]

It appears to be a 20th century fantasy piece. The blade's edge looks machine-ground and the lack of any significant corrosion suggests it was lost quite recently. Alternately, it could be a "fake" similar to the artificially patinated "ancient Roman" iron knives, sometimes actually with genuine old excavated blades but with modern cast bronze handles built around the blade's tang, which are made in Bulgaria and passed off to unsuspecting collectors on eBay as genuine artifacts.

Also, brass/bronze recovered from oxygen poor sediments can sometimes retain their golden appearance, but tend to exhibit noticeable pitting and roughness in the metal which this does not.

I routinely trawl the web for ancient metal artifacts from your historic part of the world for my collection, and based on what I've seen I highly doubt that it is much older than you or I. It is an interesting find, but possesses none of the characteristics I look for when inspecting supposedly ancient items.

 

[milan]

It appears to be a 20th century fantasy piece. The blade's edge looks machine-ground and the lack of any significant corrosion suggests it was lost quite recently. Alternately, it could be a "fake" similar to the artificially patinated "ancient Roman" iron knives, sometimes actually with genuine old excavated blades but with modern cast bronze handles built around the blade's tang, which are made in Bulgaria and passed off to unsuspecting collectors on eBay as genuine artifacts.

Also, brass/bronze recovered from oxygen poor sediments can sometimes retain their golden appearance, but tend to exhibit noticeable pitting and roughness in the metal which this does not.

I routinely trawl the web for ancient metal artifacts from your historic part of the world for my collection, and based on what I've seen I highly doubt that it is much older than you or I. It is an interesting find, but possesses none of the characteristics I look for when inspecting supposedly ancient items.

I'm sorry to disappoint you but thanks for your theory , this morning I wore a dagger to the museum to see a team of professional people, archaeologists, in their view, it is a case of ancient dagger , probably ceremonial dagger , very old, thousands of years but right age of dagger can not be determined because they do not have adequate equipment . what is important is that dagger is ancient item and not a copy of recent times

 

[huntsman53]

every few years in this area happen big floods, but this dagger was found on the part of the river where the river never pours out of the riverbed

While the dagger was found in an area where the river never gets out of it's banks, it could have made it into the river from a washout during a recent flood event upstream and likely did not travel all that far after being washed out. If the dagger is ancient as you and the people at the museum say, then due to the lack of rust and any real damage or tumble wear from traveling across rocks and stones in the river or them rolling across the dagger, then it could not have been in the river very long. Check for recent flood events and for areas upstream where the river flowed out of it's banks upstream from where it was found. A little research and on the ground and in the water searching, might just turn up a cache of weapons and possibly other items in or along the river.


Frank

 

[H-2 CHARLIE]

Banner find all the way .

 

[Erik in NJ]

Surely the team of museum archaeologists must have been able to give you a time frame and origin of this item based on the design and composition without sophisticated equipment to determine a more precise date. If you took any pics as you were finding and excavating this item, please post them as the item appears to be so well cleaned I do not see any signs of dirt or any other remaining evidence that it was buried for thousands of years. By the way, could you please tell us what type of metal detector you used to find this item in the river?

I'm sorry to disappoint you but thanks for your theory , this morning I wore a dagger to the museum to see a team of professional people, archaeologists, in their view, it is a case of ancient dagger , probably ceremonial dagger , very old, thousands of years but right age of dagger can not be determined because they do not have adequate equipment . what is important is that dagger is ancient item and not a copy of recent times

 

[milan]

Surely the team of museum archaeologists must have been able to give you a time frame and origin of this item based on the design and composition without sophisticated equipment to determine a more precise date. If you took any pics as you were finding and excavating this item, please post them as the item appears to be so well cleaned I do not see any signs of dirt or any other remaining evidence that it was buried for thousands of years. By the way, could you please tell us what type of metal detector you used to find this item in the river?

I did not use any metal detector, I was swimming in the river and dived accidentally fingered the dagger at the bottom of the river, it is my fault that I remove the precipitated material from dagger using emery paper I did not know that it must not do it.according to archaeologists in this region lived the Celts Romans Alexander the Great, this area invaded by the Huns and the famous conqueror Attila, all options are possible, this area is very rich in archaeological findings , Roman coins specially, I do have a few

 

[Argentium]

milan, try not to take it too personally - people here (and I guess on every site will get sarcastic on occasion) . I like that you
stood up for yourself ! I too have been abusive in my response to some people on this site a few years back - I'm trying to
keep that part of my ego under control . It is one thing to disagree with a persons opinion , it is quite another to mock or
use language to demean or abuse them . I am fortunate that I wasn't kicked off this site for an abusive rant that i went on
a while back . Whether we believe this dagger is Ancient or Modern , I do think we can be respectful in our discourse .

 

[Erik in NJ]

"very old, thousands of years but right age of dagger can not be determined because they do not have adequate equipment"

You showed the item to a group of archaeologists at a museum in Serbia and they essentially told you it's very old, thousands of years old? They must have been able to narrow down that time frame to a particular millenium or half millenium, no? Were they were able to tell you what culture the item is from or what it is composed of, maybe what region of the world it is from? Please provide any additional details that they provided to you regarding this item. Thanks.

 

[Army of 1]

That's a very nice find Milan , whatever the provenance , could be super rare and valuable .. cheers Mick

 

[Argentium]

You're English is better than a lot of us "native speakers " no worries there ! Most of us are very grateful to see this relic , but
I think the much more important topic is treating people with respect . The people who have shared finds with us from Sweden ,
or the Balkans , certainly the incredible finds we see from England , and Germany - Viking ,Anglo Saxon , Celtic , Roman etc.
I think we are very fortunate that we get to see these finds - people may think something is modern , or Ancient - I don't
think we have to push people away with rude comments .

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Scrappy, please do not mock members...

 

[huntsman53]

Why the sarcasm? This guy is a new member from a foreign country who clearly struggles with his English and you throw out comments like this. Completely unnecessary and disrespectful![/QUOT

I'm not trying to take it further I just wanted to say my peace. " clearly struggles with English". Milan certainly completely understands English quite well. If his English wasn't so good he wouldn't have even understood the so called "mockery". Sure most people who understand English understands scrappy took an unnecessary jab, however not everyone would've even seen that. Let alone someone who struggles with English.

While taking English is required in schools in many of the countries in Europe and elsewhere, that does not mean a person understands English quite well. In Germany, it is required that you take English (that's Oxford English not American English) from day one when they enter school until they finish the 13th Grade (yes, they go for 13 years before going onto a College or University) but since they do not use the language every single day, they may not understand certain words or quotes. For Milan, he probably has a fair knowledge of English but due to differences in uses of words, he likely has to rely on one or more of the many online Translators. You may know some or a lot of German but taking it in school and applying it in everyday use and context is totally different and then compound that with a dialect change for nearly every hundred miles you travel North or South in Germany and let's see you get by when conversing with someone there. And before you ask, yes I spent time in Germany, four years and 4 months to be exact with the U.S. Army and I met and knew a lot of German people as well as folks from many other countries during my travels when there and from spending a little time in Holland, Belgium and France.

It would truly be nice if everyone here could treat all others with respect and treat their' find(s) with respect! Unless someone has 100% proof that an item is not what a Poster states in a Thread or Post and can offer that proof, maybe they should keep their opinions to themselves. Even if they choose to reply, they should keep the sarcasm out of the reply and treat others as you would have them treat you!


Frank

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Any further mocking of members will not end well.... Please move on on topic....

 

[huntsman53]

Any further mocking of members will not end well.... Please move on on topic....

It would be nice if everyone could truly be respectful and you did not have to issue this warning every few days! I am sure that you tire of it!


Frank

 

[Scrappy]

Scrappy, please do not mock members...

Many apologies, I was slightly grumpy this afternoon with being stuck indoors with my mother in law

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Many apologies, I was slightly grumpy this afternoon with being stuck indoors with my mother in law

That's enough to make any one grumpy...

 

[Mr.T]

Hi again Milan - Could you post a photo of your find from the side? Close up to the animals¬ more photos would be great.

It's such an unusual item- as much detail pictures as you can give would really help to identify it.

There's loads of people here, to help you find out what you have.

One more question - what makes you so sure the handle is gold?- could it be bronze?

Old bronze is better than gold.

Especially in Europe.

Great find whatever time its from- its a curiosity!

 

[CRUSADER]

Many apologies, I was slightly grumpy this afternoon with being stuck indoors with my mother in law

MODs - sorry for this off topic but....

That is one of the funniest things I have read in a long time. I guess the fact Scrappy couldn't go detecting & had to watch someone on Tnet get a good find whilst babysitting his mother-in-law was enough to push him over the edge! lol

 

[milan]

You're English is better than a lot of us "native speakers " no worries there ! Most of us are very grateful to see this relic , but
I think the much more important topic is treating people with respect . The people who have shared finds with us from Sweden ,
or the Balkans , certainly the incredible finds we see from England , and Germany - Viking ,Anglo Saxon , Celtic , Roman etc.
I think we are very fortunate that we get to see these finds - people may think something is modern , or Ancient - I don't
think we have to push people away with rude comments .

Thank you very much, indeed my intention is not to try to fool someone with false things, I accidentally stumbled upon this site and thought someone might know something more about this type of dagger, people from the museum said their opinion, I have not left dagger that they performed long research on it so that they are not even sure what is it, but confirmed that the dagger is authentic and original not a copy. Thank you for your support