Dealer Etiquette?

[jeff of pa]

I just don't want the next letter he sends my way to be an invitation to small-claims court if I don't agree to his refund request (which I have no intention of granting).
Perhaps I should just move...

LOL That would be my Concern and the reason. I said find a new dealer.
that & him undercutting you in the future.
But then again offering him a chance to make it up on other coins may be the way to go.

I'm not a Lawyer but I'm sure he could take it to Small Claims,
But as said above. as long as your intent was Honest, He'd most likely Loose.

I do feel somewhat sorry for him , If he's Young new & Trying to be honest.
I'd guess most dealers would have offered $100.00 Or Melt Value in the first place.
hard lesson to learn. but he Offered it.

It's like taking your car to a dealer, Trading it in on a new car.
and the next day getting a Call saying they just checked the Undercarriage & the frame is Rusted through, so they are adding $2000 to your New car bill

 

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[Johnnybravo300]

All sales are final.

 

[sharpshooter]

It's an interesting dilemma. Had you sold the coin on eBay for example, I think you would probably be held liable for misrepresenting the coin, even though it would be through no fault of your own.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Troll banned, posts deleted.

 

[kingskid1611]

lets say you, being a new collector, buy the coin from him and was showing it to a more seasoned collector. The seasoned collector noticed something odd and says to take it back. Would he give your money back? All sales final......

 

[Dozer D]

Maybe your coin is real,now dealer has his own counterfeit that looks exactly like yours, and he hopes that you didn't take a picture of it. Now he's going to swap his coin with yours and get his money back, no way; he's got the cake & eating it too.

 

[BigWaveDave]

What you ought to do, is wait for any legal threats, then work with him to settle this on Judge Judy...
That way, the show pays for legal expenses, travel and accommodations, and pays for any settlement for the winner of the case.
He will lose on national TV, and all of here will be like “hey its Chet-Lemon!”....... it’ll be a hoot!

 

[eldorado]

Many opinions,, maybe the guy just did a simple switch a roo,, and your coin is graded and sold already,, now maybe he is trying to sell you back a messed up look alike Maybe,,,,

 

[Nitric]

Nope, You shouldn't have any bad feelings about it. I dealt coins off and on. The first few weeks in business I bought some bad stuff. It wasn't the person selling it to me, It was my fault for not knowing what I was buying.

You took it to him for his "expertise". He gave you a price, and you agreed. It also works the other way around too! Deal done!

Not your problem, to make sure he makes money.

I had a similar type deal in watches. The guy has been in it longer than I am old. He bought a collection off of me after looking everything over. He then sold the stuff too cheap and complained to me that "he didn't make any money" and wanted me to make it up the next time. There was no next time.

And I would find a new dealer, If he has the guts to pull that? Also, A 93-s is not something you just buy unless you know it's real for sure, His own greed may have gotten him too. It happens, But no way is that your problem. You owe him nothing!!! He owes you a little more for the lesson in Morgan 93-s.

 

[sprailroad]

If it came back as uncleaned and higher grade than expected, and the dealer sold it for $15k, would he offer you a slice because he under paid for it? I see no ethical question at all here. Dealers price their buys by factoring in risk. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, no hard feelings either way.

VERY good point.

 

[ARC]

This is... and has been a commonly counterfeited coin...

That being said... there are extremely well made fakes of this coin... BUT

It has been said that even an average collector should be able to verify that it is not genuine.

This "dealer" should have taken great care in this purchase and even stated to you that there is a possibility of the coin needing a verification of its authenticity and stated that IF the coin is verified as real and "good" he would purchase it for said amount.

NOW...

I will point out a very OLD scam.

Dealer purchases real... sends in a fake already in his possession... returns fake with paperwork stating such to unsuspecting NON knowledgeable seller.

I will also point out...
FIRST key "red flag" on fakes of this coin IS "possible cleaning look"... Which HE SHOULD... being a "dealer" known.
So...
Statements don't "jive" from this end.

You are in a conscience pickle... but hopefully my statements here will give you a set of "new eyes" when looking at this person and the situation you now find yourself in.

 

[sprailroad]

I read this Thread, found it interesting, and moved on. Got to thinking on it later and returned to offer up my thoughts on it, so here is my take on it Chet. You walked into a coin shop with a number of coins from an inheritance and you were up front and honest about it, stating how you acquired them, and that you really knew nothing about them. OK, the "Dealer", who became a dealer because he felt he knew enough about the buying, selling and trading of coins, thus the ( knowledgeable expert) between the two of you, to open that business. Now, he inspected them TWICE, and felt he knew enough about it to offer you $2200. The 1893 S seems to retail for $3225 in Very Good condition, so he was looking to make a profit of perhaps $1000?, OK, he is in business, to make a profit. OK, I get that, but turns out he was wrong, and now expects you to make good on it, AFTER the fact that you stated up front, that YOU really did not know about the value of the coins. Remember, HE, as the expert dealer, inspected them twice beforehand. As rebbel31 stated on his post, #18, if it graded MUCH higher, and he as the "dealer" sold it for a MUCH higher amount, would he, do you think, do the right? thing and call you back and pay you more because of it? Lets add that if you DID return $2200 to the "Set himself up in business coin expert" do you think that he in the future would offer you "retail" for more of what you have for sale, because your such a great guy? Look, you did not misrepresent anything, he inspected the coin twice, he made the call, based on what he believed he knew, he was wrong, part of HIS learning curve. I mean consider, you are not a coin collector or a coin dealer, you did not know what it might of "graded" out to, but I'd bet that he knew what it might have, and thought he could have made a "killing" on it. I could go on and on about it, but I'm sure you get what I'm saying. Having said all that, others here are right, if you feel that you (and the dealer) might feel "uncomfortable" in the future, start again with a different one.

 

[TwoYewts]

Chet, just curious. Was this letter an actual letter sent via USPS or a letter written in an email....I mean letters get lost in the mail all the time and legit emails are known to be caught by SPAM filters.....I mean are you *sure* you actually received a letter?

 

[OZARKS]

I would "file" the letter with the rest of my junk mail, right in the trash!

 

[Chet-Lemon]

LOL yes the letter was legit...sent in the mail, old school.
The general consensus that this is the dealer's loss, part of doing business, him trying to screw me over, I should never go back there, etc… none of that sits well with me.
The coin is back from PCGS and was determined the mint mark was soldered on. Dealer admits this was his error, and if I don't feel the need to pay him back then he'll have to live with that.
Call me human, but I'd rather come to sort of ethical compromise rather than just turn my back on this. The dealer and I are currently in touch.
I feel that this has been a learning experience for both of us, and a great introduction for me into the world of coin collecting.

 

[releventchair]

This is... and has been a commonly counterfeited coin...

That being said... there are extremely well made fakes of this coin... BUT

It has been said that even an average collector should be able to verify that it is not genuine.

This "dealer" should have taken great care in this purchase and even stated to you that there is a possibility of the coin needing a verification of its authenticity and stated that IF the coin is verified as real and "good" he would purchase it for said amount.

NOW...

I will point out a very OLD scam.

Dealer purchases real... sends in a fake already in his possession... returns fake with paperwork stating such to unsuspecting NON knowledgeable seller.

I will also point out...
FIRST key "red flag" on fakes of this coin IS "possible cleaning look"... Which HE SHOULD... being a "dealer" known.
So...
Statements don't "jive" from this end.

You are in a conscience pickle... but hopefully my statements here will give you a set of "new eyes" when looking at this person and the situation you now find yourself in.

No mention of having been cleaned in letter(?).
Altering a real coin would require blending/ altering the patina to hide the alteration better.
A red flag the dealer should have caught. If such was the case.
One buyer / seller I dealt with had a dislike for previously cleaned coins ,and had little trouble spotting them.
Had him inspect one ( not for sale) and he certainly inspected it well. Then saying if I was to bring more in the future to leave them as found.....

 

[ARC]

No mention of having been cleaned in letter(?).
Altering a real coin would require blending/ altering the patina to hide the alteration better.
A red flag the dealer should have caught. If such was the case.
One buyer / seller I dealt with had a dislike for previously cleaned coins ,and had little trouble spotting them.
Had him inspect one ( not for sale) and he certainly inspected it well. Then saying if I was to bring more in the future to leave them as found.....

Agreed.

Something amiss here.

This would have been a coin "dealer" / "buyer" rookie / newbie mistake only.

If this guy has ANY years in the trade... this would have never happened... Especially after SECOND inspection / time between views / inspections.

The only way this guy bought this IF he is a veteran coin dealer is to run the wool over... or ? ? ?

IF this guy just started in the business of buying coins then this would sound legit to me. ONLY.

 

[releventchair]

Agreed.

Something amiss here.

This would have been a coin "dealer" / "buyer" rookie / newbie mistake only.

If this guy has ANY years in the trade... this would have never happened... Especially after SECOND inspection / time between views / inspections.

The only way this guy bought this IF he is a veteran coin dealer is to run the wool over... or ? ? ?

IF this guy just started in the business of buying coins then this would sound legit to me. ONLY.

He could be researched...
And B.B.B. searched.
Complaints against current named business ,and any previous ones.
Not sure if he uses the same grading service or not...to see if fakes are commonly submitted. Or if they would divulge such.

Not saying he did anything wrong beyond buying a fake..........

 

[ARC]

He could be researched...
And B.B.B. searched.
Complaints against current named business ,and any previous ones.
Not sure if he uses the same grading service or not...to see if fakes are commonly submitted. Or if they would divulge such.

Not saying he did anything wrong beyond buying a fake..........

Also agreed.

 

[TwistedT]

LOL yes the letter was legit...sent in the mail, old school.
The general consensus that this is the dealer's loss, part of doing business, him trying to screw me over, I should never go back there, etc… none of that sits well with me.
The coin is back from PCGS and was determined the mint mark was soldered on. Dealer admits this was his error, and if I don't feel the need to pay him back then he'll have to live with that.
Call me human, but I'd rather come to sort of ethical compromise rather than just turn my back on this. The dealer and I are currently in touch.
I feel that this has been a learning experience for both of us, and a great introduction for me into the world of coin collecting.

Why do you think you owe him? and why?
if he wont do business with you in the future then he is not much of a business owner - nothing on you.
face it in the long run he thought he was going to make money off of the coin he bought from you.

HE was the one who obviously didn't do his due diligence in the research of said coin. He is the supposed EXPERT not you.
He said he was afraid it may have been cleaned - but no mention of this from PCGS, just a altered mintmark. Something doesnt sound right.

His mistake! his loss!! Now he wants his money back because HE screwed up!!! uh-uh that aint the way it works my friend.

As someone else has said "if he sold the coin for 15K would he offer you any more money - NO!!!!!!! he would have said I bought this from a sucker for ONLY 2K hahahahahaaaaaaa
How do YOU know it was actually the coin he bought from you that he sent in to be graded? you dont! his word against you.

You dont owe him anything more than a howdy as you pass by his shop - and i would pass his shop and not stop in.
He doesnt sound like he knows quite what he is doing.

Thats my opinion and by the sounds of it 99.9% of the others on here.
You asked what we would do - we told ya.