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[Mike(Mont)]

D

 

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[ClonedSIM]

Re: Nobody said anything about logic

Dell, it's not beyond logic that it works for people who have learned. The naysayers can't understand why they can't dowse and chew gum at the same time; why they can't think about it and do it at the same time. That's why I bring up the story about Lot's wife looking back, or make the analogy about looking up after a person has hit a golf ball. You can't have your cake and dowse, too. It's something the naysayers can't overcome. So, in that sense it is beyond logic.

Logic is easy to understand, even easier that understanding dowsing.

An example of logic: I drop an apple. Logic tells me that the apple will fall until stopped by another object. Well, logic and Newton, but I digress.

Another logical example: I look at a clock and see it's 3 pm. If I look away for several minutes and look back, it's logical to believe that it will no longer be 3 pm. If it is still 3 pm when I look back, then the logical answer would be that the clock has stopped.

It would be illogical to assume I stopped time with my mind, which is the direction some dowsers take when searching for a solution to a problem.

 

[ClonedSIM]

Re: Nobody said anything about logic

A simple analogy. What's the logic behind being unable to keep yours open when you sneeze? Dell

I'm assuming you meant to ask "what's the logic behind being unable to keep your eyes open when you sneeze?"

If that was your question, there is logic behind it, but try this instead: "Where does logic come into play in the belief that buried gold emits some kind of signal?"

 

[dowser]

Re: Nobody said anything about logic

"Where does logic come into play in the belief that buried gold emits some kind of signal"
http:science.howstuffworks.com/periodic-table1.htm

Af, check here in the last paragraph 1911, frequencies of x-rays, and how each element has it's own unique frequency..

Logic suggests that Gold has it's own unique frequency also.. Well wouldn't that be considered "some kind of signal"? Frequencies can be read, and created..

 

[ClonedSIM]

Re: Nobody said anything about logic

"Where does logic come into play in the belief that buried gold emits some kind of signal"
http:science.howstuffworks.com/periodic-table1.htm

Af, check here in the last paragraph 1911, frequencies of x-rays, and how each element has it's own unique frequency..

Logic suggests that Gold has it's own unique frequency also.. Well wouldn't that be considered "some kind of signal"? Frequencies can be read, and created..

An excellent thought, but you have to take this into context as well:

­In 1911, English chemist Henry Moseley studied the frequencies of X-rays given off by various elements when high-energy electrons bombarded each.

This does prove that gold will produce a unique x-ray frequency when being struck by high-energy electrons, but this isn't a constant state. This is a situation that has to be created, rather that what you would find in a natural setting.

Interesting article, btw.

 

[dowser]

Re: Nobody said anything about logic

Just a quick question, in regards to gold having its own unique frequency...how is that information used (or processed) by the use of cheap, inexpensive L-rods? These frequencies only seem obtainable in laboratory settings, I believe.
[/quote]

I use Element to locate Element, the L-rods are used to indicate an anomoly, in this case my anomoly is an invisible frequency line joined by my signaling element and the element i'm looking for..
Machines are on the market that create the molecular frequency needed to create the connection causing a dowsable line.. But are not required.
I found that elements are allways on, so to say, they are continually generating their own unique frequency, and for some reason they not only generate their frequency, they also recieve their frequency, making a dowsable connection..
A machine might make a stronger signal than if i were using a peice of element to signal with, UNLESS the element i'm using to signal with is larger, thus creating a more powerful frequency line than the machine can generate.

 

[j.n.]

Re: Nobody said anything about logic

I am having a rough time getting this posted, this is my third attempt and I hope it works.

Is dowsing logical at times and at times shows no logic?

Years back a coworker and I tried to dowse a lost pipe. My coworker carried dowsing rods in his vehicle and as the people who were working to tie in to the pipe had tried to locate the pipe using back hoe he wanted to try his rods on it. I have never had much using rods but I agreed to help him. My co woker dowsed where records said that the pipe should be an got a hit. He marked the first hit and a second and then asked me to try the rods. I took the rods and walked at a right angle to where we thought the pipe should be and got a strong signal now I was thinking that I was letting where my coworker had marked influence me so I tied it a second time but with a death grip on the rods. I again walked 90 degres to where we thought the pipe should be and this time I was not going to let the rods swing. Well those rods just about took the skin off my hands but they turned. We thought that we had found the lost pipe but when it was excavated-- no pipe.

As I said before I have had limited if not marginal success using rods but I have never had them twist in my hand like they did that day.

I am left sitting on the fence where dowsing rod are concerned. If the rods work where there is nothing to find is this not illogical or is it some force I don't know about. I would like to hear if anyone else has been through what I experienced.


j.n.

 

[dowser]

Re: Nobody said anything about logic

"I am left sitting on the fence where dowsing rod are concerned. If the rods work where there is nothing to find is this not illogical or is it some force I don't know about. I would like to hear if anyone else has been through what I experienced. "


j.n.,, The rods were working fine, and they did signal on something, but knowing what they signaled on, is best a mystery never solved.. It could be they signaled on water, or some subteranian crack, or change in density anomoly, or it was a molecular conection line between elements.. If you were near a house, with all the iron, copper, aluminum, ect., connection lines go out in all direction, to the vehicles parked nearby, toward the barn, or even something far away, which if it's far, your line will reach for the distant element, only to peter off and show dowsable connection again once you near the othr end signal strength..

 

[ClonedSIM]

Re: Nobody said anything about logic

Just a quick question, in regards to gold having its own unique frequency...how is that information used (or processed) by the use of cheap, inexpensive L-rods? These frequencies only seem obtainable in laboratory settings, I believe.

I use Element to locate Element, the L-rods are used to indicate an anomoly, in this case my anomoly is an invisible frequency line joined by my signaling element and the element i'm looking for..
Machines are on the market that create the molecular frequency needed to create the connection causing a dowsable line.. But are not required.
I found that elements are allways on, so to say, they are continually generating their own unique frequency, and for some reason they not only generate their frequency, they also recieve their frequency, making a dowsable connection..
A machine might make a stronger signal than if i were using a peice of element to signal with, UNLESS the element i'm using to signal with is larger, thus creating a more powerful frequency line than the machine can generate.

[/quote]
The way you've explained this does make some sense, but I'm having trouble understanding what would cause elements to generate a frequency. Is this caused by some outside force? Are the elements generating the frequency themselves? If so, how?

 

[ClonedSIM]

Re: Nobody said anything about logic

The way you've explained this does make some sense, but I'm having trouble understanding what would cause elements to generate a frequency. Is this caused by some outside force? Are the elements generating the frequency themselves? If so, how?

Perhaps it's a definitive mis-wording, but I understand what he is talking about.

Chemical Elements resonate at a specific frequency, or a sub-harmonic of that frequency. When electronic Frequencies are broadcast to establish harmonics with a target = (MFD) Molecular Frequency Discrimination

"LIKE" Chemical Elements resonate at the same frequency. When "like" elements are placed in close proximity of each other harmonics occur naturally between the "like" elements. No electronics necessary. = (HID) Harmonic Induction Discrimination.

This is as far as I am going in explaining this to you. In both cases the Rod(s) are used in a PHYSICS application, and NOT within the generally accepted definition of "DOWSING". Tools, and methods for physics applications are not permitted to be discussed on TNET.

If you are only using your Mind and a simple tool to mentally Discriminate, and locate buried targets, that is defined as DOWSING.

Many of us are using mechanical Discrimination methods in a physics application when we search in the field. Since this is NOT PERMITTED to be discussed on TNET, without threat of being banned, we are relegated to using code words MENTAL DOWSING (mental), or PHYSICAL DOWSING, (physics) so that folks will understand the method we are using.

I know this is an infringement on forum rules, but extremist Skeptics, insist on forcing the discussions in the Physics direction to detract viewers of this forum. Dell

Well, I'm actually hoping to discuss the applications of this resonance in relation to simple tools, i.e. dowsing rods.

I understand when folks talk about loading their rods with certain minerals that they claim helps them find only that particular mineral, but in your statement above you said that like minerals in close proximity to each other harmonics will occur naturally. How does this work in the situation of a loaded dowsing rod and a gold coin, say, 20 feet away? Surely this isn't considered close proximity?

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Nobody said anything about logic

we know that metal detectors "find" or detect metals --- via the interaction of the electical feild they produce "interacting" with the "conductive" metals in the ground -- the interaction / reaction between the metal and the feild is how the machine tells "what" it found and how deep it is. -- it using computer chips "figgers" out what it "thinks" it found.

we know that the human body produces a faint electrical feild -- arua type photographs show that feild * ---the rods are made of copper / brass -- a "conductive" metal-- so the metal item in the ground "interacts" with the "human detector" and the "feild" it produces via the rods .

its a well known fact that sharks can detect faint electrical feilds put out by prey to hunt them down with . --- many humans are often "highly sensitive" to differant things --sounds --smells -- touch --- some people senses are more highly developed or "touchier" than that of others --- these folks are naturally more naturally "talented" or "gifted" than the adverage person would be---thus they are "sensitive" to these feilds.

its a little understood crossover science -- the blending of mind / body energy and "known" or "proven" science together

 

[ClonedSIM]

Re: Nobody said anything about logic

we know that metal detectors "find" or detect metals --- via the interaction of the electical feild they produce "interacting" with the "conductive" metals in the ground -- the interaction / reaction between the metal and the feild is how the machine tells "what" it found and how deep it is. -- it using computer chips "figgers" out what it "thinks" it found.

we know that the human body produces a faint electrical feild -- arua type photographs show that feild * ---the rods are made of copper / brass -- a "conductive" metal-- so the metal item in the ground "interacts" with the "human detector" and the "feild" it produces via the rods .

its a well known fact that sharks can detect faint electrical feilds put out by prey to hunt them down with . --- many humans are often "highly sensitive" to differant things --sounds --smells -- touch --- some people senses are more highly developed or "touchier" than that of others --- these folks are naturally more naturally "talented" or "gifted" than the adverage person would be---thus they are "sensitive" to these feilds.

its a little understood crossover science -- the blending of mind / body energy and "known" or "proven" science together

Therein lies the flaw, however. A detector can put off very large impulses when searching for metals, even through air I can pick up a vehicle wheel at 3 plus feet, if not further. But the human body's impulses are tiny compared to the field produced by a detector. Even when applied to a brass or copper rod, how do you explain these small impulses flying many feet through the air, and then returning as well? And don't forget that a detector is specific-built for this purpose.

And as far as the shark portion goes, it's also known that the shark has the greatest known ability of a living being to track using electrical impulses. To compare this sense to that of a human is akin to comparing the ability to fly between sparrows and 747's. Sure, both objects have the ability to soar through the air, but it is only with much more force that a plane can accomplish this feat. This doesn't mean that both can accomplish this task equally well.

And also remember that the shark has the added bonus of perceiving these impulses while traveling through salt water, a far better conductor than air.

Also, your third paragraph seems to indicate that only folks with these "special" abilities can dowse, whereas most of your comrades say anyone can dowse with practice. Is there a right answer to that conundrum?

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Nobody said anything about logic

no my thrird paragraph is to mean that some people are more "naturally" gifted than others so it comes easier for them --while others can learn they being less "naturally" attuned -- will have to "work" at it and thus become more attuned to "listening" to the impluses of their bodies --thus developing their "feel" for it .

there are many things both about the human body and the human mind that modern science is still at a loss to fully and completely explain.

 

[dowser]

Re: Nobody said anything about logic

Elements in a magnetic field cause Cathode rays to be deflected or moved, Cathode rays are called Electrons, the basic part of all Atoms..

If the Earth is in a constant magnetic field, then all Elements are being bombarded by Electrons, and that creates the frequency., that's my best guess..

 

[ClonedSIM]

Re: Nobody said anything about logic

So the Dowsing Forum doesn't allow discussion of dowsing rods, i.e; simple or inexpensive devices? When did that happen?

\

TNET doesn't allow discussion about my simple, inexpensive devices.

Just contact Marc, and get permission to start an LRL forum, if you want to discuss using L-Rods for physics applications . Don't argue, or question me about it. It's not my forums, Dell

I asked a question about dowsing rods.

Once again, simple bent rods, that's the thrust of my question.

 

[dowser]

Re: Nobody said anything about logic

"Light is made up of a stream of energy packets called photons" Einstein

"Modern physicists believe light can behave as both a particle and a wave"

"A light wave consists of energy in the form of electric and magnetic fields, referred to as electromagnetic radiation, the fields vibrate at right angles to the direction of movement of the wave, and at right angles to each other."

"Light waves come in a continuous variety of sizes, frequencies, and energies. Light is made up of a collection of one or more photons, propagating through space as electromagnetic waves"

"If a atom is energized it's electrons move to a higher orbit. A photon is produced whenever an electron in a higher-than-normal orbit falls back to it's original orbit. A photon has a frequency, or color, that exactly matches the distance of the electron falls."

"Refraction occurs when the energy of an incoming light wave matches the natural vibration frequency of the electrons in a material. The light wave penetrates deeply into the material, and causes small vibrations in the electrons. The electrons pass these vibrations on to the atoms in the material, and they send out light waves of the same frequency as the incoming wave."

Maybee this will help explain some.

 

[ClonedSIM]

Re: Nobody said anything about logic

"Light is made up of a stream of energy packets called photons" Einstein

"Modern physicists believe light can behave as both a particle and a wave"

"A light wave consists of energy in the form of electric and magnetic fields, referred to as electromagnetic radiation, the fields vibrate at right angles to the direction of movement of the wave, and at right angles to each other."

"Light waves come in a continuous variety of sizes, frequencies, and energies. Light is made up of a collection of one or more photons, propagating through space as electromagnetic waves"

"If a atom is energized it's electrons move to a higher orbit. A photon is produced whenever an electron in a higher-than-normal orbit falls back to it's original orbit. A photon has a frequency, or color, that exactly matches the distance of the electron falls."

"Refraction occurs when the energy of an incoming light wave matches the natural vibration frequency of the electrons in a material. The light wave penetrates deeply into the material, and causes small vibrations in the electrons. The electrons pass these vibrations on to the atoms in the material, and they send out light waves of the same frequency as the incoming wave."

Maybee this will help explain some.

Light travel does explain a portion of the resonance theory, but how far does light really penetrate under the surface of the Earth? I'm still not entirely convinced that the vibrations from light waves would travel deeply enough into the ground to excite a gold molecule to a state it would create a detectable signal.

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Nobody said anything about logic

in the super collider they ram electrons at one another at vast speeds to do a mini "big bang"-- some of the effected electrons that break away are measured on the other side of the world --and are moving so fast they litterly pass thru the whole of the earth --- so yes "rays" can pass thru the earth not lightbeam as we think of it --but basically like a invisible form of a beam (like a x ray is a invisible energy beam ).

the earth is constantly being bombard by radation and unseen energy beams ( like x rays and such) from space , lucky for us the ozone layer and other things tends to protect us from it.

 

[ClonedSIM]

Re: Nobody said anything about logic

in the super collider they ram electrons at one another at vast speeds to do a mini "big bang"-- some of the effected electrons that break away are measured on the other side of the world --and are moving so fast they litterly pass thru the whole of the earth --- so yes "rays" can pass thru the earth not lightbeam as we think of it --but basically like a invisible form of a beam (like a x ray is a invisible energy beam ).

the earth is constantly being bombard by radation and unseen energy beams ( like x rays and such) from space , lucky for us the ozone layer and other things tends to protect us from it.

You're right the Earth is mostly protected from the radiation et. al. from space and the Sun, but in your first example the electrons traveling at such a speed as to pass straight through the Earth, doesn't apply here.

Those particles were whipped up to that speed artifically, in the collider, the same as the impulses from a detector are created solely for the purpose of traveling through solid ground to reach a metal object. These aren't naturally occurrring in either case, as you claim is occurring when the gold in the ground is resonating to such a degree it can be detected by human senses.

 

[ClonedSIM]

Re: Nobody said anything about logic

How do you know that? Dell

Sorry, are you directing that question at me?