Digging ruins

[RRey199]

I have plenty of ruins in my area. I live near several historical sites also. What are some of the findings of the group concerning hunting in such places. Besides the obvious problems with hunting protected sites.

 

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[Highmountain]

What are some of the findings of the group concerning hunting in such places. Besides the obvious problems with hunting protected sites.

If you happen to live in the US it depends on a lot of things. If the ruins are on public land and you get caught digging them you can join a lot of other residents of the various prison systems in the country who got caught doing the same thing. Chaco Canyon, for instance, has a display case in the lobby of their museum with an accumulation of legal documents of arrests and artifacts used in evidence to prosecute the people who picked them up.

If the land's 'private', but has a stock pond on it paid for by the US Conservation Service and the right enforcer catches you digging it and turns you over to the right prosecutor you might beat the rap but you mightn't beat the ride. There are several cases of such incidents over the past few years, the theory being that the privateness of the ownership was compromised by,

1) a federally insured loan against the land,
2) government grants to pay for brush removal, fences along the perimeter adjacent to government land,
3) ambiguousness on the part of the owner as to whether the person caught had 'permission' to dig it (permission in a legal sense after the question arises whether to prosecute the owner for giving you permission, which tends to create ambiguousness and an importance of the actual words used in the granting of the permission).

Additionally there's a problem with the fluid and dynamic nature of the interpretation of the statutes on-the-spot by enforcers and prosecutors. Something that might have been perfectly legal a few minutes ago can become illegal as it involves what you were just observed doing and are in the process of being arrested for.

The smart money these days does its digging on a tiny scale and in awfully out-of-the-way places, quits what he's doing when he hears the sound of a gasoline engine of any sort and assumes an attitude of indignant innocence about what 'someone' did here and is prepared to ditch any artifacts in the space of a moment.

It's also an not a bad idea to keep in mind that you can have your picture taken from almost any angle these days, almost anywhere, without any knowledge that you've been posing for a camera. The likelihood is reduced if you make what you are doing brief, but if the place you're admiring that interesting 'thing' sticking up out of the ground happens to be one where previous people have shared your interest in things of that sort, and if someone had some budget money they needed to get rid of before the end of the fiscal year, you might be well served by smiling and washing your hands after you zip up your pants.

There's no law yet against not doing it, unless you're involved in serving food to the public, but who wants to have a courtroom full of people saying, "That guy didn't even wash his hands after he did that!"

 

[Highmountain]

I agree with you, tony-tony. At least on the US part. On the other hand, people have been treasure-hunting for an awfully long time in, say, Egypt, Turkey, Mexico, Peru, Chile and most other places, most of which have a few laws and regulations of their own. Everything else being equal, I think I'd prefer an American jail to a Turkish or Mexican one if it came to that.

But I don't get to those other places much, so I'd say it's an odds-on bet that the jail I have the best shot at is in the good old US of A.

 

[Highmountain]

I think everything depend of the culture of the country that you go.

I'm sure you're right, tony-tony.

I'd imagine an acquaintance of mine from the US who was attending medical school in Ciudad Juarez, driving to school every day from El Paso would agree, too. He turned onto a street he'd been turning onto every day for 2 years. On this day, however, the street had been converted to one-way overnight. There was a polizei standing there who flagged him over, asked for his license and rubbed his finger and thumb together. The med student hadn't brought more than a few bucks with him, so he elected to make an ill-judged, sarcastic remark to the cop.

Down at the station they wrapped a bicycle cable around his neck and fastened it so he was looking face down into the mouth of a commode for three days. When they let him out they asked him if he thought he could remember that street was one-way now, and whether he thought he'd learned how to address an officer of the law with respect.

He politely answered that he believed he had.

I didn't end up with my head chained to a commode, but once in the 80s at Heathrow International Airport outside London I was waiting with my ex-wife for our flight home. I was wearing a jogging suit with pockets, carrying passport, ID, money, everything except a Swiss Army knife in a bellypack. The Swiss Army knife was in the pants pocket of the jogging suit.

We checked in a bit early, so after we settled a bit I left my wife in the waiting area with my bellypack and wandered down to make sure I'd know exactly where the boarding area was. Without noticing, I walked past a glass-windowed security cage on my way down, where I'm sure they saw me walk by.

A few minutes later I came back, headed back for the waiting room. The bobbies asked for my passport and ID and when I din't have them, searched me, finding themselves frightened and horrified by the Swiss Army knife. They threw me onto the floor and felt around to find out I wasn't hiding a submachine gun or hand-grenade, then argued between themselves until almost flight-time about whether to just put me out onto the street outside the Airport, or not, (where without a ticket I wouldn't be able to get back in to where my wife was waiting) me not being able to prove through documentation that I wasn't a Brit.

I don't think it's really culture, tony-tony. Cops are cops everywhere.

 

[RRey199]

Like I said, Besides the obvious. In my area there is a big difference between national parks, national historic sites, local historic sites and historic ruins. They vary in the level of legal protection from strict regulation to none. Some sites are privately owned while recognized by local historical societies. These only require the permission of the present owners. I have located some truly prime site, whick I will post as soon as I figure out how to make them 800 x 800 pixels.?