Does the word FUGIO excite anyone?? 1787!!! 1st penny by Benjamin Franklin

[olas13]

Happy turkey day everyone! Well I headed down to the beach today to go surfing but the swell died down so I bagged that idea.On my way past the beach I noticed the town had started a project that I had been waiting for them to begin so I could do some detecting there.Used to be a few casinos on this ground. After about a half hour I was digging a good signal and happened to look to the side and noticed a round object sitting on top of a flat rock. I reached down and picked it up and there was a 1912 V nickle!! great!! after another 20 min. of detecting I got a very loud signal and dug down about 6".Out popped a large round disc.I lightly rubbed off some of the dirt and the first thing I saw was 1787!!very clear.Well needless to say I was very excited. here are some pre cleaning pics enjoy!!
Not sure now that I have read about it that I will even attempt a cleaning myself.Its soaking in olive oil right now.
Any suggestions?

OK here we go. Wow lots of comments, Thanks all.Here are the best pics I can get with my camera.First thing I can say is that being in the air it has now begun to turn green.The first pics I posted look much better than now.The color was nice and even. It is what it is. Here is a pic for size and weight. Also some more of the reverse.
the reverse says states united around the circle for sure. I took it to my local coin dealer today and he did a couple of tests/checks and says it is the real thing.
Went back this am to search around some more and don't you know the trucks werre dumping gravel on top already.
My next stop was to find out were they took all the soil that was taken out, which resulted in permission to dig through a mound of dirt 15 feet tall 30 feet long.(got a 1898 v nickle in the first 15 min ath the pile.)IN the usual poor condition that those coin get from being in the ground.I'll be back at it tommorrow.Also some pics of the dig site and some bottles from the hole.Enjoy!

p.s. the pics didn't show up so I,m starting a new post to do the follow up, thanks.

 

[birdman]

Man, you are going to make me throw my my finds in a ditch.LOL I can't even come close to that .Big congrats for sure!! Find of a lifetime.

 

[kg6yll]

Very nice find! Congratulations. I think the issue of cleaning coins has a lot of factors to take into consideration. Such as value of the coin, corrosion of the coin and the soil conditions in your area. I think it is hard for anyone to judge exactly what you should do (clean or not to clean) from just a picture. But that is why we have this forum, to get other opinions, gather information and do what we think is best. Hopefully you can ID the variety and let us all know how it turns out.

KG6YLL

 

[West Jersey Detecting]

Congratualtions on a truly amazing find! Most of us can only dream of uncovering something as amazing as a Fugio cent!

Thanks for a great post!
Neil

 

[CRUSADER]

Re: Does the word FUGIO excite anyone?? 1787!!! 1st penny by Benjamin Frankli

What is the obsession people have with cleaning

Crusader ( Kirk and the rest who think cleaning is wrong), I'm so glad you made that statement, since one of my pet peeves is that old copper should be cleaned, of course cleaned properly, but to leave dirt on a coin is only going to continue possible corrosive damage to the coin in the future for one reason, and it is our responsibility once a coin is "saved" from the ground to prevent further damage, not allow it to continue.

Using this Fugio as an example, which by the way, it has great detail, but the Reverse side looks nowhere as good as the Obverse from the photo. If both sides were like the Obverse side is, only a light cleaning in distilled water and some gentle picking with a WET cotton swab or toothpick to remove what can be removed would be necessary and a thorough drying to remove all moisture before doing anything else with the coin.

Getting back to why this Fugio needs to have that dirt removed, besides the one reason already stated, the one that I consider rather important is that it must be cleaned to identify the coin! There are over 58+ Varieties of the Fugio Copper and knowing the variety is important, some are very common, some scarce and some very rare! The differences sometimes can be a minute detail that can only be seen on a coin that is not coated in dirt!

It can mean knowing the difference between sending a coin in for grading if a very rare one or just keeping it if a common one since the difference in value can be astonishing! (The difference can be up to thousand dollars or more difference in some coins!)

This holds true for most Colonials, Pre Federal and Federal coppers. It is important to be able to clearly see all the details as possible.

I put this quote in another post a couple months ago and will repeat it here, and the quote comes from a top Colonial Collector in the USA who is also a contributor to the Notre Dame coin website.

"Hi Don. The mantra has always been don't clean a coin or it will lose value. For undug coins this is true. For dug coins this is untrue. The value will increase with judicious cleaning. The coin is the coin whether cleaned or not. The discussion I think centers on worsening the coins value or increasing it. If the value of the coin doesn't matter to you, then there is no need to clean a filthy coin other than to make out what the variety is. If you plan to sell the coin or to have bragging rights, I think some coins are made better with cleaning - that includes halting verdigris. I am not know ledgable enough to say what is and is not a good method for cleaning."


I am not a proponent of using Olive Oil on coppers, especially if any signs of being porous are there, since what has been stated already and I have been saying for years, is that the oil will soak into the interior area of the coin and over the years will then slowly leach out while in your coin holder. Also, for that reason, using Olive Oil on 2 piece buttons is not a good idea either. Olive oil on ancient Roman bronze coins appears to be fine, but on our coppers, unless the surface is intact, I sure do not recommend using it.

I would love to be able to attribute the variety of this Fugio, and let the finder know if it is a common variety or one of the many very scarce or rare varieties. However, the photograph of the reverse just is not good enough to say with any certainty.

Don in South Jersey

We are talking, the same difference. Of course I clean dirt off & stop any verdigris attacking the coin. (remember the hundreds of roman bronzes I conserve). As you say if this is a rare variant & it has been stuck in olive oil to find out if its a rare variant, how does that help? This issue is HOW you clean not wheather you should do it or not. Thanks for the lesson but but you talking to the converted.

 

[Colonial KirkPA]

Mr. dugfinds, I thought it was thousands?

BDD...Kirk

 

[CRUSADER]

Re: Does the word FUGIO excite anyone?? 1787!!! 1st penny by Benjamin Frankli

Mr. dugfinds, I thought it was thousands?

BDD...Kirk

Thousands in the pots. Hundreds in the album (only album coins are worth preserving)

 

[Colonial KirkPA]

I only wonder what the dudes in the 70s found! Probably hundreds of thousands.

BDD...Kirk

 

[bootstrap vinn]

Who the hell is John Walter??

 

[BuckleBoy]

Who the hell is John Walter??

And the bigger question is What the HELL is John Walter doing in this post?


Ok. So we've determined that

1. perhaps the olive oil wasn't such a great idea since it will keep the peroxide method from working when the coin already looked good to begin with.

2. this is a beach find by a member with 16 posts, who *hopefully* will come back and answer some questions about the find as well as providing better photos of the coin.

3. better photos are needed to attribute the specific variety of the coin

4. size and weight of the coin are needed as well.


So I would say it's the original poster's turn to post a reply.


Great find by the way,


-Buckleboy

 

[X-Terra70_TreasureHunter]

Hi if you need instuctions on how-to clean the Fugio contact Don in South Jersey he has articles posted here on Treasure Net and from what i have heard is very knowledgeable at doing that and has had good success. Very Nice find.

TreasureHunter

 

[coinman66]

Grea find Olas13! Who knows maybe old Ben held that coin once? HH
Coinman66

 

[Danimal]

Who the hell is John Walter??

And the bigger question is What the HELL is John Walter doing in this post?


2. this is a beach find by a member with 16 posts, who *hopefully* will come back and answer some questions about the find as well as providing better photos of the coin.



-Buckleboy

BB...I believe he wrote he ditched the beach hunt that day and stopped to hunt an area that was under construction.

Great find!

 

[l.cutler]

I just saw the cleaned pictures in the other post, the olive oil was a little rough on it. Attributing it to variety should be possible though. Regardless it is a great find.

 

[Don in SJ]

I just saw the cleaned pictures in the other post, the olive oil was a little rough on it. Attributing it to variety should be possible though. Regardless it is a great find.

I believe I have the attribution, but not certain, but will post soon what variety I think it looks like, the photos are not the best in the world, angled photos are not the best for determining spacing which is what I have to use to identify the variety.

Don

 

[Colonial Zoyboy]

Who the hell is John Walter??

Well, bud, since you asked for it, here is your answer: http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,118730.0.html

Bone Dry Detecting...zoyster

 

[Colonial Zoyboy]

Who the hell is John Walter??

And the bigger question is What the HELL is John Walter doing in this post?


Ok. So we've determined that

1. perhaps the olive oil wasn't such a great idea since it will keep the peroxide method from working when the coin already looked good to begin with.

2. this is a beach find by a member with 16 posts, who *hopefully* will come back and answer some questions about the find as well as providing better photos of the coin.

3. better photos are needed to attribute the specific variety of the coin

4. size and weight of the coin are needed as well.


So I would say it's the original poster's turn to post a reply.


Great find by the way,


-Buckleboy

Because KirkPA and I gave our reason for not cleaning our coins.

BDD

 

[Don in SJ]

Attribution of the Variety of the Fugio

With the addition of the cleaner Reverse photos, I spent some time looking at all the varieties and came up with what I thought was the variety, but before I was going to post it, I had it verified from a colonial collector and he agreed with my identity.

The coin is a Newman 12-U Rarity 5 (Rare) and there is a photo of one on the Coinfacts.com website.

http://www.coinfacts.com/colonial_coins/fugio_cents/fugio_cent_n012_U.htm

What was diagnostic for me in IDing the coin as a N.12-U was the alignment of the lettering WE ARE ONE

This was the only Reverse that I could find where the alignment of the ARE with ONE underneath is as shown, the others are more spread out.

So, congratulation on finding one of the harder to find varieties of a Fugio!

Don in South Jersey

 

[Evolution]

Nice ID Don. Now I'm beginning to wonder why the coin didn't make the banner yet. Once again, very nice find!!

 

[Colonial Zoyboy]

What's the potential value, don?

Bone Dry Detecting...zoyster...KylePA

 

[Don in SJ]

What's the potential value, don?

Bone Dry Detecting...zoyster...KylePA

Not sure on value, 12-U's are not on auction or ebay too often and I did see one go for much less than I would have expected in auction. So, I really would not venture an intelligent guess. But with the corrosion on it, not as much as it would have gotten. Supply and Demand rules, regardless of rarity, and not sure there are that many serious Fugio collectors out there that would cause a bidding war..

Don