Done with my 3 stage build

[omnicron]

So here it is, it's been a fun build and most of all a learning experience! All in all it cost me around $200 to build it and maybe 30 to 40 hours...I had to back track and make a few changes and adjustments along the way. One area that I worry about is the entrance to the under sluice...I worry that it's not going to be large enough but I guess that's better then to large and packing up. I did make the front adjustable but wish I made the back the same.

One other question I have is about the angle of my flare...don't know if you can see it from the video but I worry it's to steep. I did make it adjustable also but my engine mount is in the way so I would have to move that back even more...
Some details:
4# grating
riffle size is 3/4" tall...1 1/4 cut size, 45 bent at 1/4" and welded at 45 degree angle
box is .080 alum
3/8" punch plate
3/16 punch plate
Subaru Robin EX 17 engine
T80 air
Pump has 350 on case so 350gpm?

So here it is...sorry about my voice guys...I have the start of throat cancer...

3 stage sluice build - YouTube

 

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[Reed Lukens]

Great looking rig back the box down as much as you need to even out the flare and if it needs more flotation just put an inner tube under it and fill it to whatever angle you need.

 

[omnicron]

Thanks Reed! You and John are the Man! I had the inner tube in the back of my head, matter of fact was going to pick one up tomorrow. I was thinking either a 12 or 14" right under the sluice. I figured the flare was to steep with the position that my box is at right now. I'm only at around 3.5" drop for a 48" long box. Maybe I should move the motor back 5 or 6 more inches. That would allow me to move the box back 2" giving me a little more slope adjustment and more weight on the center of gravity. This would also give me several more inches to adjust the flare but I guess I should wait to see how she floats... I could always take my gen and welder to make adjustments LOL. Here I go again...over thinking things again

 

[omnicron]

Have you guys ever notice that no matter how well you plan out trips, there is always a gremlin that is working opposite you to mess things up? That's how my day started and ended! Let me tell you the plan...
I was planning to wake up at my normal work schedule of 430 and head up to my secret location to run my dredge. I was taking my son to man the high banker (2.5" dredge with out the suction nozzle). We had loaded up the Expedition the night before so all I had to do was grab the wet suit and some gas. Well...I woke up and noticed the alarm clock blinking...sob...I check my phone and it's 730...holy $(%* must of had a power outage again.
So I wake up my son and we eat some breakfast and by now my wife is awake and wanting to talk...Gasp...gasp....I want to leave....finally she's done (I don't even know what she was talking about really...all I heard was blah blah I want to leave blah blah I want to leave... Finally I have enough and tell her I have to go otherwise I wont be home until 9pm! She decided to stop blah blah and out the door I went...its now 8:45
I get to the gas station to get a few gallons for the dredge, a capuchin for me and a coke for my son. Everything is going good now, I can taste the gold. It's one step closer...I get back in the Expo and turn the key...click then nothing. #(*#$$#$#$**(#*$ I pop the hood and see cotton candy on the battery terminals...My god! I have nothing to clean them with..no baking soda, terminal clean...not even the right size wrench...Well after 15 minutes I finally get them cleaned with some elbow grease and a greenie the attendant gave me!
On the road finally...I get about 15 miles and then it hits me....crap I left the wet suit by the front door...cause my wife was blah blah blah I forgot in my haste...I turn around and go get it. Man I should of just stayed in bed today...It's now 10:30 and I have a 1.5 hour drive...
Ok enough of my horror story... I live it once and don't want to live it again.
So here's the juicy stuff...Holy Frack a 4" dredge moves some serious material! With my 2.5 dredge it would take me about a hour to dig a 24x24x12 hole. I did it in less then 10 minutes! Not being familiar with the bigger hose, I had a crap load of plug ups. It could be because the water was a balmy 38 degrees and it was running fast and deep and don't know if the hookah or the regulator was not working so I had to long arm it.
Well I'm fading out so will finish up tomorrow and post a vid and pics...

 

[Reed Lukens]

10 minutes? You need to crank the pump up, that's why you got so many plug ups. Your hand should get sucked to the tip really fast and it will hurt some when there is enough pressure. If you had it cranked then you will need to start cutting you suction hose back until you have good suction and make sure that each pressure hose is totally sealed. You should be able to dig that hole in 2 minutes tops, 10 minutes shows there is a real problem. I use 15 feet with a 400gpm pump but that's a lot of pressure. With your over under a 9hp/ 500gpm pump maxed out will really rock. This is the 9hp motor on my 4" Proline. Everyone loves the way this dredge works maxed out with my over under.

 

[Fabrication Specialists]

That came out great! Excellent work omnicron!!!

 

[omnicron]

Thanks for the kudos! It actually worked great except the third stage, it wasn't clearing out.


Reed your right I need to make the drop opening larger (adjustable) now I just need to figure out how keene does it or just get rid of the 1st stage completely. Well I understand how keene does it with the sliding plate but does the second stage riffles move also? I have never seen a 3 stage in real life so that's kind of a grey area. I guess I may not of paid attention to the few vids I watched. I will have to look and give it some thought.
Well I know why I didn't have much suction power, when I was disassembling the dredge for transport I found a rock lodged in the jet. It was only after watching the video my son shot did I notice also that I didn't have the water flow that I had at first also. That rock may of been stuck in the jet for awhile. So lets see what other issue did I have..
Friday night I went ahead and moved my engine back another 5 inches so my jet could be more level.. I should of left it in place as the balance was completely off. Even running it was not sitting level. It sat so heavy on the engine that when I was in the fast water, water was swamping over the top of the pontoons. I had to move down stream to an inside bend were the water was slow. By then it was to late as my right pontoon had took on water. You'll notice the bucket of water, that was to try to rebalance things. There is a (casting) hole in the pontoons that the previous owner had plugged but the plug fell out of one of them.
Reed my dredge has a Subaru ex17 ~6hp and the pump has 350 on it (I assume its 350gpm) I'm also running 15' of suction hose.

We was there about 4 hours and actual nozzle time for me was less then 1hour. I was showing my son how to set up and take down the high banker but it seem he was having issues as it doesn't have a mouse and keyboard or a ps3 remote...lmfoa
I have rambled on enough so here is the video and you'll see me... your welcome to laugh at me I look like an misplaced seal that is well feed! I can't believe my son had to *ask* me to clear those rocks... So here's the boring vid.

 

[Doitlaynstyle]

Thanks for the kudos! It actually worked great except the third stage, it wasn't clearing out.
View attachment 768936 View attachment 768937

Reed your right I need to make the drop opening larger (adjustable) now I just need to figure out how keene does it or just get rid of the 1st stage completely. Well I understand how keene does it with the sliding plate but does the second stage riffles move also? I have never seen a 3 stage in real life so that's kind of a grey area. I guess I may not of paid attention to the few vids I watched. I will have to look and give it some thought.
Well I know why I didn't have much suction power, when I was disassembling the dredge for transport I found a rock lodged in the jet. It was only after watching the video my son shot did I notice also that I didn't have the water flow that I had at first also. That rock may of been stuck in the jet for awhile. So lets see what other issue did I have..
Friday night I went ahead and moved my engine back another 5 inches so my jet could be more level.. I should of left it in place as the balance was completely off. Even running it was not sitting level. It sat so heavy on the engine that when I was in the fast water, water was swamping over the top of the pontoons. I had to move down stream to an inside bend were the water was slow. By then it was to late as my right pontoon had took on water. You'll notice the bucket of water, that was to try to rebalance things. There is a (casting) hole in the pontoons that the previous owner had plugged but the plug fell out of one of them.
Reed my dredge has a Subaru ex17 ~6hp and the pump has 350 on it (I assume its 350gpm) I'm also running 15' of suction hose.

We was there about 4 hours and actual nozzle time for me was less then 1hour. I was showing my son how to set up and take down the high banker but it seem he was having issues as it doesn't have a mouse and keyboard or a ps3 remote...lmfoa
I have rambled on enough so here is the video and you'll see me... your welcome to laugh at me I look like an misplaced seal that is well feed! I can't believe my son had to *ask* me to clear those rocks... So here's the boring vid.

Looks awesome! Is this video from the part when you had a clogged jet? It looks like you should have more flow. All the dredging vids I have seen always look like they are running WAY too much water but that was before I knew that they were running over under boxes.

 

[rebel003]

how much spacing do you have between you lower riffles and the divider plate? yes you need to speed it up that will help the sluice clean itself out. Crank it up and place a good size rock about the max size that will fit in your hose in top of the sluice box and increase the RPM's till the rock gently rolls out through the sluice box.

 

[maniacheels]

great job. Looks like its working pretty good.

 

[omnicron]

Thanks guys, I didn't know there was a rock in the jet till I was taking the dredge apart to load up. Don't know how long the rock was in there, like I said I only had about 1 hour nozzle time and in that time I had many (lost count) plug ups. I am sure everyone is correct that I need more engine speed, I'm still in the learning stage with this dredge.

Rebel I have 3/4" from the top of my expanded to the bottom of the separator plate. I think during this video I didn't have the rpm's up as much as I did earlier, just based on the rocks that were not clearing. This video was shot just after I did a complete clean out after running for maybe 40 minutes, panned each section checking for values. I will say that it was catching the gold well. It's just that bottom section is not clearing...I'm wondering if with such a small opening and lots of damns on my separator plate maybe I need to run the end of the box out of the water as I'm already slowing the water down

Hey if anyone reads this thread and has a 3 stage sluice, could you take me a few pictures of the separator plate with the riffles in place in both the wide open position and small opening position? Maybe explain what happens with the riffles when the plate is in the wide open position. Thanks

I'm about 75% done processing my cons, I'm not expecting much based on my nozzle time and were I was dredging...but then again this creek has values everywhere!

 

[Reed Lukens]

I assumed that you had seen this video. The first problem to fix is the lack of water. If it was a rock in the jet, that is rare but happens once in a lifetime. If you have any more questions, just ask. ¾" is fine, your dredge looks fine, you just need a wider space to the lower section and proper water. I put my top riffles where I need them. You should watch the whole series but this video shows the over under completely.

 

[Reed Lukens]

This is the one that pulls it all apart... I don't have enough time to get on here every day so if you have any questions pm me. I miss a lot of the posts with my retirement schedule... lol

 

[omnicron]

Somewhere along the way on building this box I got off track. I got focused on the 3 stage instead of the over/under box. I'm going to fix this and get rid of the first stage. I did like the idea of being able to check my values without doing a complete clean out but I can live without that...maybe I'll make the first set of riffles separate and just clean that section to check values.

 

[Reed Lukens]

Actually I think you did a great job. I would only make a slide plate for the lower box and extend the punch plate to an adjustable 12" max. It looks like a great unit with just that one need modification. Beautiful work all the way around

 

[omnicron]

Thanks Reed! I started making mods tonight after I finished up my cons from Saturday. It wasn't to bad considering the issues I did have. It ended up being right at .5 grams, that was right at 1 hour or a little less nozzle time and long arming. It was not what I would consider good material as the water was so high that this inside bend sand bar was underwater. I tested this bar last year but it didn't have the values that others did up and down stream.

I am going to go back up this weekend with the sole purpose of running material. I think the mods that I'm going to do will fix the lower sluice issues. I have a dumb question for anyone who can answer. The connection of my 4" hose to the jet should there be like a foam/rubber/something to help it seal it up? I hope to also solve my hookah issue, when I put the reg in my mouth I can exhale but have to inhale hard to get air, being I have never scuba dived or used a hookah that could be normal but I think not. It doesn't seem like the pump is really putting out lots or air. If I remember right I read somewhere that it will pump at 45psi. This isn't a high priority right now though as without a full face mask I really don't want to put my face in ice cold water. I'm a wuss when it comes to cold!!!!

 

[Reed Lukens]

Take a picture of your jet coupling is it inside or outside? The regulator could be a number of things. You need to put an air pressure gauge on it first to see what's happening there. Take a pic of that system also.

 

[Hoser John]

KISS-keep it simple and stupid. Simple o/u works fine. Old TP Dave on Big Bar went exactly your way-I ran his 6" 3 way convalution and my lil'ol' 4" O/U at the same time 2 days a week by myself for over 10- weeks on the trinity. NOT ONCE did the 3 way get even half the gold of a 4 " simple o/u when it should have gotten 3.5 times as much. Pizza man and TP both ran 6" on weekends when off work and Pizza man-straight box,flareedjet,long flapper would recover the same but 3 way not near as much. Took ages to tear apart too-convalution is not the solution-John

 

[omnicron]

Well I converted it to a simple over and under. Basically I added 6" of the expanded grating and removed the first stage. I now have about 11" of opening into the under section. I went up today to run and test but only after getting up there I discovered I forgot to bring the pump intake hose Grr only 3 hours drive round trip....So I'm going to go up tomorrow and hope for the best as I noticed the water had risen another 6" or more and was running faster. I may just go to grimes creek instead. Oh and I did move the motor forward so hope the balance is back!

 

[Fabrication Specialists]

That does look good. Also the Subaru engine you bought will treat you right. Those are good little engines, just keep that oil changed and a clean air filter and it will live for years!

Great work,
Chris