Dowsing works, but is still spooky

[pgill]

Ascholten,

Thanx for the reply.....

Peter it seems you got so bent over the bible thumper comment that you started preaching and didn't read the rest of my post, or didnt pay attention, or whatever. You were not the only person to reply in this thread before my post either so don't automatically assume that everything everyone posts after your post is automatically just for you. Sometimes you get answers that are not what you want to hear, are not spoonfed to you or disagree with your disposition.... if you can't handle an answer to a question then don't ask the question.

If I read you wrong, you have my sincere appologies...... I just find that when it comes to dowsing, there is always this controversy that seems to stir up on if it works or not? should it be done or not? Is it Spiritual or not? I have stayed away from this subject because of this...... And maybe I should of stayed away further.... but it got the better of me

Thank you for your information on the subject, I can see there is a lot involved and lots to learn..... I think I will stick to the metal detector I want to read and learn about all the ways in which to find treasure, it will help me in my venture to find the good stuff in the future. I must admit, I still find dowsing very spooky, I do not know why.... I still would like to know how a person through dowsing can pinpoint where the best place would be to look for a watch or something without actually being there, as in the message below.

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,110389.msg820787.html#msg820787

Anyway, again, if I jumped to wrong conclusions, please accept my appologies..... Hope no hard feelings....

God bless
Peter

 

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[Ascholten]

pgill no hard feelings at all...

see that's the thing there, can you beyond a shadow of a doubt physically PROVE there is a god? ... no, you really can't...it's a faith thing. You believe therefore it is. Dowsing is the same way, there is no way, with current technology / knowledge to 'prove' it works, or doesn't work. Since it IS a faith thing, you have to have faith in yourself, if you are doubting it, chances are it won't work for you because you have pretty much pre destined that it won't work, .. I don't fully believe in it (myself) .. you have to be committed to it, just like to god to get the full benefits.

My point on the religion comment is, many religious folks (not necessarily you) are VERY closed minded on many things that don't follow their religion exactly. They don't understand dowsing, so therefore it is evil, end of subject... I SAID... end of subject!!!!!.. thats their mentality on it.

You will hear that the religions frown upon it, it is 'evil' it involves 'spirits' 'demons' etc. and other claims best used to scare little children into sitting still during the sermon. Just because something is not understood does not automatically make it evil. Is a gun evil, no it isn't it... If i kill you with it, still... it is I that is evil... not the gun.. that is simply a tool. dowsing devices... tools, for one to work with.

If you used dowsing before and it worked for you, then you definately have a tie with the 'inner you' for lack of a better word. Don't be afraid of it, it's not going to unleash boogeymen on you. At worse the thing just wont work for you, you can't talk to yourself is what happens, or you can't / won't listen to your subconscious trying to speak to you.....

It's not hard to do, but does take a commitment. My point is, don't pick up a pendulum and expect to walk out into your back yard, yell show me treasure and think the thing is going to stick straight out and point you to a buried pirates cache.....it doesn't work that way.

I wouldn't use 'spooky' to describe it, .. amazing yes, but 'spooky' is implying 'spooks' ie the demons and devils of before mentioned preaching and hollywood sleaze. Being a religious man, anything to do with 'spooks' will make you nervous, unsure.. and hence hinder your abilities to fully utilize your pendulum.... Why does it have to be 'spooks' who are guiding your pendulum... why can it not be your guardian angel who is guiding you via the pendulum.... ... you don't know. so therefore you very well might be worrying yourself needlessly. None of these theories can be proven one way or another, but I bring them up just to shed a different light on the topic. People are skeptical by nature... and then we got the idiots out there who still think the walking on the moon was a government hoax, and the earth is still flat.... don't let others affect your beliefs.

aaron

 

[pgill]

Ascholten, This is a very interesting subject. The reason I said "Spooky" is because it is a part of the topic title... And in the original message, it was said about asking "to show me the treasure " or something like that,,,, cannot remember all the words now. When I read that, I automatically thought about devination by the spirits..... And that to me is spooky. I have been involved in deliverences in the past, and have seen some horrible things that have been done by "spirits".... So I put 1+1 together and came to conclusions

I watched a video on Youtube awhile ago about using a pendulum, and that guy also spoke to the pendulum...... It is very difficult not to come to conclusions when you see people doing this.

I will read up on this subject so that I am not ignorant about it Maybe the whole subject will make more sense to me then

I can understand what makes a metal detector to work.... but what moves those rods or pendulum is still a mystery to me.

But am really enjoying the discussion about this subject.

God bless
Peter

 

[aarthrj3811]

I want to read and learn about all the ways in which to find treasure, it will help me in my venture to find the good stuff in the future

.
Dowsing is very simple.....It works or it does not for you....If you add a set of rods to your treasuure hunting tools it is and always will be "just a tool"....Art

 

[Ascholten]

you have to be more specific when using dowsing rods. or pendulums. show me a treasure is too vague.... ie define treasure... to a 6 year old it could be a superball buried in the yard, to someone else it could be jewelry, to someone else it could be 'coins' ... notice that exactly WHAT kind of coins is not specific, so by definition any coin technically could be a treasure..... so it might point to your coin box in your house..... as an example.

you have to be specific when using a pendulum and never EVER try to trick it it doesn't work that way... Also, pendulums can not tell the unknown, ie they can't predict the future, as in, what will be the winning lottery numbers this week... they don't work that way.

You might want to first learn how to manipulate it for simple yes or no answers. Ask it, are there any buried coins in my yard... as an example... see if you get a yes or no... if it says yes, ask, are they older than 40 years old... as an example, see if you get a yes or no. you can ask, is it a penny, is it a nickel, and as you get better you can pretty much hone it down, then you can use triangulation to home in on it, point to the direction the coin is at... the pendulum will swing... now technically a swing is pointing in two directions... front and back of the swing.... so move over about 10 feet, ask it where the coin is at now.. see which way it swings.. mark the spot then and then you will have two points to move towards an intersect... the more the better for accuracy but don't get carried away.

Another thing, if you don't like an answer you get, don't keep asking the same thing over and over, or being 'cute' ie trick it...... Is there a nickel in the yard... it says no... ok is there a 5 cent piece in the yard... nice try, but you KNOW that's a cheap shot there. Also know that your mindset is able to greatly affect the accuracy of your 'thoughts' as well... if you ask a question but in your head, you pretty much already have formed an answer, then that is most likely the answer you are going to get, because you prejudged the pendulum with that dominant thought. One must clear their mind, think of the question, and once you can narrow it down, say you know it's a mercury dime out there... picture a mercury dime in your mind, what it looks like, the front the back, concentrate on the picture in your mind when you ask it, where is the dime at, which direction... that will help you find it as well.

I lost my keys the other day in the house, and after tearing the place up, and rather pissed off about it too, I finally calmed down, sat down with the pendulum, formed a VERY good mental image in my head of my lost keyset and asked, are the keys in my apartment... yes... thank you..... are they in the bedroom...no... kitchen....no..... bathroom... yes.... now my bathroom is not very big and I went through there like 4 times already, but the pendulum said they were there. Fine I was going to tear wallpaper off at this point, I start ripping EVERYTHING out of there, I store my paper on the side / behind the toilet, somehow they fell behind there, and the rolls tipped and covered them... to this day I don't know how the hell they got there, even if I had them in my pocket and my pants on the floor taking a dump.. and they fell out.. they'd be out front, not all the way against the wall. even if I put them on top of the tank and knocked them over, Id have first, seem em fall, and B never left them there and left the can to begin with, and even then theyd still be on top of the paper.... in other words Id never have looked under a big pile of TP in a million years... well, ok in a few months when i finally used it all up..... they were there though.

Ok this is just a 'minor' find, and it was something that I had total control over.. ie my keys, I lost them, I found them, I was in posession at all times, so again, not a major find with dowsing, but it's a step towards mastering it, and shows it does work, and once you start feeling how it works, and understand the methodology, you will find pretty much anything you need.

aaron

 

[Kentucky Kache]

If dowsing works somehow by magnetics or by resonant frequency in the metals, that's one thing. If you're talking about communicating with a pendulum, or a rod, which has intelligence and can't be tricked, then you're messing with something you don't need to mess with. No apologies.

 

[pgill]

That is why I said "Spooky". I still have not got the answer as to who that spirit is that is being talked too? Very confusing, but hey for the sake of knowledge, still learning.

God bless
Peter

 

[Oogie Wa Wa]

Hey y'all.

So why did I just join this forum? Follow along if I can explain.

I was in the shower; my best ideas come to me there, fwiw. Not thinking of anything in particular. I notice the water swirling down the drain. Hmmm, if there was a bunch of sand or dirt in here, there'd be a low spot above the drain. Water moving quickly carries dirt with it. Hmmm, if something disturbed the flow of water on a piece of flat land, and the water sped up, there'd be a depression. Like a pipe. Water flowing past solid objects in porous soil would have to speed up around that object, right? Hmmm, hey, we used to have fun divining/dousing when I was a kid, darned if it didn't work. Saw dad find a septic tank outlet that way. Heck, the two bent rods crossed for most of us that tried it.

Ya know, I'm wondering...... object in ground, has surface tension, flow speeds up around it when it rains and the water ends up going wherever the water goes, flowing water carries dirt, leaves a minute, irregular depression in the area that shouldn't be there, eaiser for water to flow along an object that going through the dirt; rods in hand, walking along. You come upon a small depression that doesn't fit your mental picture of the landscape, too small to actually see. You end up with your body compensating for the change in slope slightly, usually your arms do some of that.....arms rotate a bit when moved slightly.... wrists turn an itty bit.....rods swing together.....

Hey, I just figgured it out, put 2 and 2 together!!! Or something, anyway. Hey, areas where water drains/collects would make the soil softer, same effect. Maybe small objects would eventually make small depressions?

Maybe if you can somehow sense metal when you're divining it'd cause your body to tense up just a tiny bit; enough to change the swing of a pendulum, the same way?

Not fair if someone throws something in the yard and you know about where it is.....you start looking down a bit when you think you're near, your balance changes 'cause yer noggin threw you off...your ams move a bit...tada!

So I looked up dowsing forums, and found this. Nobody is home here, hey, I gotta tell this to someone that may be interested! LOL

Anyway, for what its worth, which might be nothing at all, more just a musing, but enjoy if it makes you smile. Spooky even with that, there's definitely something going on, and I'm a skeptic about everything! Thanks for the bandwidth, sorry if the babbling made no sense. Ahhh, I can go do something useful now.

Nate/Oogie Wa Wa

 

[aarthrj3811]

Views on the supernatural

Speculative views on the "supernatural" include that it pertains to:

Distinct from nature Some events occur according to natural laws, and others occur according to a separate set of principles external to nature. For example God (in most definitions) is considered to be the ultimate creator of the universe and the natural laws. Those who believe in Angels and Spirits generally assert that they are super-natural entities. Some religious people also believe that all things which humans see as natural, only act the same way consistently because God wills it so, and that natural laws are an extension of divine will.

A higher nature Others assert that God, miracles, or other putative supernatural events are real, verifiable, and part of the laws of nature that we do not yet understand.[citation needed]

A human coping mechanism Others believe that all events have natural and only natural causes. They believe that human beings ascribe supernatural attributes to purely natural events (eg. Lightning, Rainbow, Flood, Origin of Life).

Magic Many people have sought to use both magic and science in hopes of empowering humanity for an improvement and to achieve a clearer picture of humanity's place in the cosmos. In the earliest Christian art (from the 3rd century) Jesus Christ is portrayed as a bare-faced youth holding a wand as a symbol of power,[1][2] as the centuries passed. (See: Images of Jesus) [3] There may be a persistent link between supernaturalism, the paranormal, and the desire for immortality[4][5]

A word for unexplained events Before the scientific method was used, everything was believed to have a supernatural cause.[citation needed] "Supernatural" today is in this sense merely used as an inspiration for more scientific knowledge tomorrow, through observation and analysis.
Another part of a larger nature This is a view largely held by monists and process theorists. According to this view, the "supernatural" is just a term for parts of nature that modern science and philosophy do not yet properly understand, similar to how sound and lightning used to be mysterious forces to science. Materialist monists believe that the "supernatural" are just things in the physical universe not yet understood by modern science while idealist monists reject the concept of "supernatural" on the grounds that they believe "nature" is the non-material. Neutral monists maintain that "nature" and "supernature" are artificial categories as they believe that the material and non-material are both either equally real and simultaneously existent, or illusions that stem from the human mind's interpretation of reality.

 

[Twisted Fork]

There is a legend that still lives today in the region of South Wales; one that circulates amongst the tin miners. 2000 years ago give or take, an elderly gentleman and his son located and claimed the first recorded tin mines in the land. Today, they still sing songs about Joseph the tin man and his boy Jesus. They say this is where they hid out after the boy upset the Pharisees in the temple at age 12.

 

[joecoin]

But.....reestablish your acquaintance with your rods, ...
Bud

I've always said you should have a good acquaintance with your rod.

 

[extractor]

Bump

 

[Prime]

I'm coming into this topic late, but who cares. I believe the gentleman from South Africa is referring to spirits when he talks about the supernatural. What he wants to know is if you guys are talking to spirits, or just talking to yourselves. You know, kinda like when you sometimes talk to yourself in your head.....except in the case of dowsing you talk to yourself outloud in order to, I don't know.... focus your brain on the task at hand.

I mean, if dowsing doesn't involve spirits, and just relies on your own body and brain, then you probably don't have to "ask your pendulum" questions outloud, you could just think the question. But like I said, sometimes saying something outloud can help one to focus more.

I personally believe that dowsing "might" be, at current time, in the same spot that chemistry was centuries ago. Chemistry was something that Alchemists were involved in, and some of them were also involved in other stuff that one could say is "spooky". At that time, science was spooky, particularly in the dark ages. Now, does that make chemistry itself "paranormal" or involving spirits in any way? No. Eventually alchemy and chemistry parted ways and one went into the dust bin, and the other is a foundation in our modern society.

I strongly suspect that the same thing might eventually happen with dowsing, it might branch off and move away from "divination"(which is bad ju-ju and I want to have nothing to do with that). But the two have separate goals. Dowsing seems to rely on detecting objects in the present time, things that are physically there right now.

Divination, on the other hand, deals with foretelling the future and yes it does involve spiritism because nobody can actually foretell the future! It is something to stay away from.

In a nutshell, I believe that dowsing is falsely bundled together with divination. Even the term "divining rod" is misleading, but it is an old school word, taken from a time of superstitions.

The definition of divination is as follows: "the art or practice that seeks to foresee or foretell future events or discover hidden knowledge usually by the interpretation of omens or by the aid of supernatural powers." - Taken from the merriam-webster online dictionary.

I'm not sure if I would label dowsing under that, even if the definition does refer to "hidden knowledge". I have come across too many things that imply that the world is much more connected than we may think.

Here are some examples: identical twins are at times capable of feeling each other's pain. Animals can sense earthquakes before they even happen, birds and sea animals rely on earth's magnetic field to fly/swim thousands of miles, instinctively. Nothing supernatural about that, in fact it is a primal, fundamental behavior for them.

Radio waves cross empty space over great distances and send information along with them. Granted, we can't pick them up with our minds, but they can have a physical effect on our bodies. Can we feel them? No, but our bodies probably can. Consider this: these radio waves are emitted by objects that WE created. They are very primitive devices if you compare them with the incredible power of the human brain. Speaking of which, there is more of what we don't know about the human brain, than what we do know. It's not much of a stretch to suggest that we might be able to pick up various forms of energy around us.

Another example: people who live under powerlines have higher incidence rates of cancer. They're not in contact with the power lines, but their bodies pick up on the radiation anyways.

When the weather changes, some people get headaches and their blood pressure is affected. The thing is that they feel these physical symptoms "before" the weather visibly changes, not necessarily after the fact.

Everything in the world is composed of matter, atoms, etc. All atoms are essentially composed of the same things(protons, neutrons, electrons, just to name a few). We are made up of atoms too. Furthermore, solid objects aren't completely solid, molecules vibrate at different speeds. Vibration = energy. The faster those molecules vibrate, the hotter an object becomes. Couldn't we then, in theory, be able to sense this energy in some way, in some form?

Isn't there something in what I just wrote, that hints at a scientific explanation?

 

[Ted Groves]

Couldn't we then, in theory, be able to sense this energy in some way, in some form?

No.

Perhaps in the theory of the pseudo-scientific world, you might come up with something, but not in the real world.



Things just don't work that way.... sorry.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Re: Dowsing works, but is still spooky
Reply To This Topic #33 Posted Today at 12:30:08 PM

Quote from: Prime on Today at 12:24:31 PM
Couldn't we then, in theory, be able to sense this energy in some way, in some form?

No.

Perhaps in the theory of the pseudo-scientific world, you might come up with something, but not in the real world.



Things just don't work that way.... sorry.

[

Couldn't we then, in theory, be able to sense this energy in some way, in some form? [

Ted says No…Teds web site is called “The Truth About Dowsing”… http://sites.google.com/site/dowsingtruth/

Perhaps in the theory of the pseudo-scientific world, you might come up with something, but not in the real world.

Just a mis-direction thing according to his own personal “belief system”

Things just don't work that way.... sorry.

If you want to hear a lot of pseudo-scientific stuff just ask him..

I will ask Ted (or whom ever he thinks he is) a few questions.

Why can some of us find Treasure with a set of Dowsing rods?

Do you admit that Dowsing Rods work only like you say they will?

Should we start a pool as to if he will even answer the questions?
"The door to Knowledge & Understanding, is never open to a closed, or prejudiced mind”

 

[Prime]

Eh, it's an ok website, but the problem is that it so adamantly sticks to "conventional science", leaving no room for any theories. The problem with conventional science is that our scientific knowledge of the world around us, is still quite limited. Like I already stated, what we don't know, far surpasses anything and everything that we do know. I agree that at current time, dowsing hasn't been proven to work in controlled tests. But, I have an inquisitive mind and I am very sure that there is the potential for dowsing to be proven to work, one day.

Take the following into account: in our modern society, we are exposed to a huge array of chemicals, which have an effect on our bodies. We are exposed to metals in our products(aluminum, zinc, etc)and chemicals, a lot of which do get into our bodies and they can most certainly have an effect on the human brain. If there is a part of the brain that can make dowsing work, that part of the brain could very well have been negatively effected by all this crap that our bodies are exposed to on a daily basis. If that happened, I can see how it could diminish any abilities that the human mind possesses, that are outside of the scientific norm. Just a thought.

Bottom line: what we know about ourselves and the world around us, and how we interact with it and vice versa, is the equivalent of a snowflake landing on the tip of the proverbial iceberg. We just know some of the basics.

The world seems to be making less sense to me as it is, all I'm trying to do is find out the truth.

 

[aarthrj3811]

I think this site has the biggest controlled study of Dowsing
http://www.scientificexploration.org/jse/articles/betz/betz_toc.html
This Web site has 23 pages of facts
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,19537.0.html

 

[Ted Groves]

The world seems to be making less sense to me as it is, all I'm trying to do is find out the truth.

Good luck. Right now you have chosen a path to go down. Once you come full circle.... you will learn.... the truth that is.

Incidentally, once you get started down a particular path of enlightenment, there is no guarantee you will actually come full circle. Some remain in the "search" mode forever, because they get comfortable and would rather do that than face reality.

 

[Prime]

My usual methods of treasure hunting are not paying off, every place that I search for a cache, is filled with ridiculous amounts of garbage. I must find a way to navigate through the junk in order to find the goods.

I have an overwhelming desire, a need, to find at least one of the caches that I am searching for. Therefore, it is time to consider something new.

 

[EddieR]

The world seems to be making less sense to me as it is, all I'm trying to do is find out the truth.

Good luck. Right now you have chosen a path to go down. Once you come full circle.... you will learn.... the truth that is.

Incidentally, once you get started down a particular path of enlightenment, there is no guarantee you will actually come full circle. Some remain in the "search" mode forever, because they get comfortable and would rather do that than face reality.

Yes, some people keep searching because they realize they don't know everything.