Dredging tomorrow, california, come get us coppers
- Thread starter vini
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P) come get us coppers
russau
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posting this can leed to someone else getting caught or get some "drummed up charges" brought against them!while i totally agree with your position under the current circumstances in California,p[osting that your going out dredgeing in Cal will only stire the pot! but GO GETTUM!
Hoser John
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know how ya feel V......but...have had 2 buds invaded by cdfg/fs already this year for even saying a word about going as all forums--the few left that is--are monitored by environutz gettn' bounty on dredgers....err on the side a caution and delete ifn' your smart...TONS & TONS A AU 2 U 2---John
vini
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i'm not to smart john 
if someone else gets caught whats that got to do with me? they must not be as dumb i guess 
maybe i'm hoping to get caught maybe i'm hoping an environut will stop by my dredge whilst pokin a hole in the river and maybe thats where they'll be layin when i get done with them telling me what I can and can't do, just cover um with cobbles.......
And who's laws are they the DFG and FS breaking? are they ANTI AMERICAN ? yeah i think so. I can name a few amendments to the constitution there breaking and mining laws that are supposed to be followed but there making there own laws up as they go, so they can KMFA, how about fighting for freedom and being treasonous like the men who wrote the Declaration of Independence when they said ENOUGH!!! no this is TYRANNY in this country and people better start fighting now before they, politicians, government take this country over in totallity.
I WON'T stand down men.
Stay tuned .
if someone else gets caught whats that got to do with me? they must not be as dumb i guess maybe i'm hoping to get caught maybe i'm hoping an environut will stop by my dredge whilst pokin a hole in the river and maybe thats where they'll be layin when i get done with them telling me what I can and can't do, just cover um with cobbles.......And who's laws are they the DFG and FS breaking? are they ANTI AMERICAN ? yeah i think so. I can name a few amendments to the constitution there breaking and mining laws that are supposed to be followed but there making there own laws up as they go, so they can KMFA, how about fighting for freedom and being treasonous like the men who wrote the Declaration of Independence when they said ENOUGH!!! no this is TYRANNY in this country and people better start fighting now before they, politicians, government take this country over in totallity.
I WON'T stand down men.
Stay tuned .
vini
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When dredges are outlawed, only outlaws will have dredges.
By RON KLIEWER
LDMA/GPAA member
Only a few short years ago, I made a brief video of my dredge running in a swimming pool. I did this to make the point that if small scale miners didn’t band together to fight the forces that are trying to eliminate us from California’s waterways, the only place we would have left to dredge would be in swimming pools! Not a fun ‘prospect’ for any of us.
Here we are in the late spring of 2012, almost a year after California Governor Jerry Brown signed a five-year dredging moratorium and the California Department of Fish and Game just released its final version of its very biased Supplemental Environmental Impact Report.
Don’t confuse DFG with the facts because the outcome was rigged from the start and the new suction dredge regulations were railroaded with barely a two-week period for public comment, which is against the law.
Of course, the public comments and unbiased scientific studies were ignored just as they have been ignored for the most part throughout this entire process. It is obvious that the goal here is to regulate dredging out of existence by implementing such restrictive regulations that it becomes much too difficult and unprofitable to continue dredging within the bounds of the law.
Dredging season was cut short in 2009 by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, aka “the Governator” signing Senate Bill 670. Later in the fall, my son and I had to drive hundreds of miles to attend (the closest one to us) one of the DFG’s rigged public hearings, which along with the rest of the process, was held as a formality so they could say they had followed “the process”.
There we learned that insects were actually considered fish by DFG and other bureaucratic techno-speak. Though only written questions were allowed to be submitted at the formal presentation, I personally spoke with DFG’s Mark Stopher, who is overseeing this train wreck of regulations. I helped (or so it seemed at the time) educate him about the benefits of dredgers removing lead, mercury and other metals from the rivers along with what gold we could find. He nodded and seemed to genuinely understand the value that dredgers contribute to the economy as well.
The new “improved” dredge regulations are filled with absurd rules that have never been — and would not ever be — foisted on other outdoor “user groups”, though they soon will if this is allowed to stand.
Here are a few examples:
Besides the outright closing to dredging of numerous California rivers and creeks, things like imposing dredging hours of 10 a.m. to 4 p.m. is outrageous! This would never be tolerated if imposed on other businesses.
And, having to keep a logbook with you at all times, showing the hours and locations you have dredged smacks of communist countries’ regulations, designed to keep their people under the regime’s collective thumb.
I can just hear it now. I’m relaxing after a day of dredging (with my modified and reduced to four-inch intake to meet the new rules dredge). It’s 5 p.m. and a U.S. Forest Ranger walks into our camp and demands ‘Where are your papers? I heard a dredge running over here after 4 p.m!’ Can you say Gestapo?
We live in the age of insanity on so many levels. California, which was once the Golden State and the Land of Opportunity is now neither.
Regulations and high taxes are driving taxpayers and businesses that create jobs and hire people out of the state in droves. Those who run the state into the ground continue to increase spending and add to the complexity of regulations.
Gov. Brown’s new budget increases spending by $7 billion and increases taxes while California teeters on the edge of the financial abyss.
The DFG says the fees charged to issue dredge permits don’t cover the costs associated with the issuance of said permits. They say they will have to raise the fees dramatically if dredge permits are ever issued again. Of course, they don’t cover costs when you make up a bunch of darn near impossible to follow rules and task the rangers, game wardens and other “enforcement” agencies with the responsibility to go out and catch those “outlaw dredgers” that are not following the rules!
They have already, for all intents and purposes, shut down the lumber industry in California. They are now working on the miners, and when they are finished with the miners, who will be next?
The small rural communities are the ones that suffer most in the quest to “save the environment”, but all of us are losing out in so many ways. What we are losing the most is our freedom.
Let’s stand together against this tyranny! I am supporting Public Lands for the People’s legal challenges through each step of this process, which involves several lawsuits. These legal challenges are based on solid ground and stand a really good chance of getting dredgers back in the water, dredging under the old, much more sane regulations.
We can’t fight this individually, but as a group through PLP’s efforts, we wield a lot of clout. Let’s not allow politicians and environmentalists to steal our mineral resources from us under the guise of “protecting the environment”.
The afternoon before departing to Ford’s theater, where an assassin’s bullet would cut him down, President Abraham Lincoln shared some words of wisdom about mining with House Speaker Schuyler Colfax, who was about to depart on a trip to California.
“During the war when we were adding a couple of million dollars every day to our national debt, I did not care about encouraging the increase in the volume of our precious metals. We had the country to save first. But now that the rebellion is overthrown and we know pretty nearly the amount of our national debt, the more gold and silver we mine makes the payment of that debt the easier,” said Lincoln, who dearly wanted to see California himself and was planning to take his wife there.
The President gave Colfax this message to tell those in California: “Tell the miners from me, that I shall promote their interests to the utmost of my ability; because their prosperity is the prosperity of the nation, and we shall prove in a very few years that we are indeed the treasury of the world … Don’t forget, Colfax, tell those miners that that is my speech to them, which I send by you. Let me hear from you on the road, and I will telegraph you in San Francisco. Pleasant journey and good bye.”
We have surely come a long way since 1865 and have forgotten why California was named “The Golden State”. I understand the value of conserving our natural resources for future generations, but it needs to be done without trampling United States Citizens’ rights under the Constitution. Let’s try to protect the resources we have without endangering one that once is lost, is seldom, if ever recovered: Freedom.
I ask you, is it now time to throw the tea into the harbor?
Ron Kliewer is a longtime LDMA member and a proponent of preserving mining heritage on his website: GoldRushU-GoldRushU Home. He welcomes comments and can be reached at kliewer1@verizon.net
LDMA/GPAA member
Only a few short years ago, I made a brief video of my dredge running in a swimming pool. I did this to make the point that if small scale miners didn’t band together to fight the forces that are trying to eliminate us from California’s waterways, the only place we would have left to dredge would be in swimming pools! Not a fun ‘prospect’ for any of us.
Here we are in the late spring of 2012, almost a year after California Governor Jerry Brown signed a five-year dredging moratorium and the California Department of Fish and Game just released its final version of its very biased Supplemental Environmental Impact Report.
Don’t confuse DFG with the facts because the outcome was rigged from the start and the new suction dredge regulations were railroaded with barely a two-week period for public comment, which is against the law.
Of course, the public comments and unbiased scientific studies were ignored just as they have been ignored for the most part throughout this entire process. It is obvious that the goal here is to regulate dredging out of existence by implementing such restrictive regulations that it becomes much too difficult and unprofitable to continue dredging within the bounds of the law.
Dredging season was cut short in 2009 by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, aka “the Governator” signing Senate Bill 670. Later in the fall, my son and I had to drive hundreds of miles to attend (the closest one to us) one of the DFG’s rigged public hearings, which along with the rest of the process, was held as a formality so they could say they had followed “the process”.
There we learned that insects were actually considered fish by DFG and other bureaucratic techno-speak. Though only written questions were allowed to be submitted at the formal presentation, I personally spoke with DFG’s Mark Stopher, who is overseeing this train wreck of regulations. I helped (or so it seemed at the time) educate him about the benefits of dredgers removing lead, mercury and other metals from the rivers along with what gold we could find. He nodded and seemed to genuinely understand the value that dredgers contribute to the economy as well.
Here are a few examples:
Besides the outright closing to dredging of numerous California rivers and creeks, things like imposing dredging hours of 10 a.m. to 4 p.m. is outrageous! This would never be tolerated if imposed on other businesses.
And, having to keep a logbook with you at all times, showing the hours and locations you have dredged smacks of communist countries’ regulations, designed to keep their people under the regime’s collective thumb.
I can just hear it now. I’m relaxing after a day of dredging (with my modified and reduced to four-inch intake to meet the new rules dredge). It’s 5 p.m. and a U.S. Forest Ranger walks into our camp and demands ‘Where are your papers? I heard a dredge running over here after 4 p.m!’ Can you say Gestapo?
We live in the age of insanity on so many levels. California, which was once the Golden State and the Land of Opportunity is now neither.
Regulations and high taxes are driving taxpayers and businesses that create jobs and hire people out of the state in droves. Those who run the state into the ground continue to increase spending and add to the complexity of regulations.
Gov. Brown’s new budget increases spending by $7 billion and increases taxes while California teeters on the edge of the financial abyss.
The DFG says the fees charged to issue dredge permits don’t cover the costs associated with the issuance of said permits. They say they will have to raise the fees dramatically if dredge permits are ever issued again. Of course, they don’t cover costs when you make up a bunch of darn near impossible to follow rules and task the rangers, game wardens and other “enforcement” agencies with the responsibility to go out and catch those “outlaw dredgers” that are not following the rules!
They have already, for all intents and purposes, shut down the lumber industry in California. They are now working on the miners, and when they are finished with the miners, who will be next?
The small rural communities are the ones that suffer most in the quest to “save the environment”, but all of us are losing out in so many ways. What we are losing the most is our freedom.
Let’s stand together against this tyranny! I am supporting Public Lands for the People’s legal challenges through each step of this process, which involves several lawsuits. These legal challenges are based on solid ground and stand a really good chance of getting dredgers back in the water, dredging under the old, much more sane regulations.
We can’t fight this individually, but as a group through PLP’s efforts, we wield a lot of clout. Let’s not allow politicians and environmentalists to steal our mineral resources from us under the guise of “protecting the environment”.
The afternoon before departing to Ford’s theater, where an assassin’s bullet would cut him down, President Abraham Lincoln shared some words of wisdom about mining with House Speaker Schuyler Colfax, who was about to depart on a trip to California.
“During the war when we were adding a couple of million dollars every day to our national debt, I did not care about encouraging the increase in the volume of our precious metals. We had the country to save first. But now that the rebellion is overthrown and we know pretty nearly the amount of our national debt, the more gold and silver we mine makes the payment of that debt the easier,” said Lincoln, who dearly wanted to see California himself and was planning to take his wife there.
The President gave Colfax this message to tell those in California: “Tell the miners from me, that I shall promote their interests to the utmost of my ability; because their prosperity is the prosperity of the nation, and we shall prove in a very few years that we are indeed the treasury of the world … Don’t forget, Colfax, tell those miners that that is my speech to them, which I send by you. Let me hear from you on the road, and I will telegraph you in San Francisco. Pleasant journey and good bye.”
We have surely come a long way since 1865 and have forgotten why California was named “The Golden State”. I understand the value of conserving our natural resources for future generations, but it needs to be done without trampling United States Citizens’ rights under the Constitution. Let’s try to protect the resources we have without endangering one that once is lost, is seldom, if ever recovered: Freedom.
I ask you, is it now time to throw the tea into the harbor?
Ron Kliewer is a longtime LDMA member and a proponent of preserving mining heritage on his website: GoldRushU-GoldRushU Home. He welcomes comments and can be reached at kliewer1@verizon.net
russau
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i understand and agree completely! BUT them wacos and socalled "representatives" of ours dont care! theyre running this train into the ground and dont care about you and i!the greens are sending tons of money to them to fill theyre pockets, and what are we doing "for them"
? follow the money and youll see where the problem is comeing from!
? follow the money and youll see where the problem is comeing from!
Oakview2
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Vini
God's speed and keep your powder dry
God's speed and keep your powder dry
Goodyguy
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Behind you in spirit!
"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."
- Thomas Jefferson
GG~
"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."
- Thomas Jefferson
GG~
shepcal
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Go get the gold Vini! You have my support and permission!
Shep
Shep
vini
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Thanks men LOL shep
OK sorry for the delay, got busy and i can't find my video editing software and honestly dont have time it takes to edit so this is raw video, uncut foul words n all heavy breathing ( copd )
should be posted by 9:30am west coast time
OK sorry for the delay, got busy and i can't find my video editing software and honestly dont have time it takes to edit so this is raw video, uncut foul words n all heavy breathing ( copd )
should be posted by 9:30am west coast time
Last edited:
vini
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i understand and agree completely! BUT them wacos and socalled "representatives" of ours dont care! theyre running this train into the ground and dont care about you and i!the greens are sending tons of money to them to fill theyre pockets, and what are we doing "for them"
those of us who know know the environut groups are the wealthiest groups on this planet, they're buying off politicians because thats what they've become, greedy pieces of garbage, most not all the perecentage is to the point that if your not being bought your being sold, there whores...........enviro groups have
there own lawyers, lobbyists who BRIBE politicians to do there handy work using sneate and congress to pass BS laws , they hide them as laws within laws, trailer bills which bypasses the regular legislative process and could be passed in less than two weeks, they're pulling this sh%t more and more getting new regulations passed and there most favorite word theses days is moratorium, damn this pisses me off as it does so many of us, it's impossible to fight lost causes every where we turn, government ran society is here now......
vini
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I am heading to the Merced river up above the town of Merced today to look at whats being done for the salmon up there, they've been working on the river all summer from what i've been told, making beds for salmon to spawn on this September and there's a hatchery near by, they are tearing the shi& out of the river to make the salmon feel at home, LOL i have to see this , i'll get video too on this if I can.
kuger
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Vin,they did the same thing below Tulloch/Goodwin Dams,on the Stanislaus....spent millions of dollars dumping gravel in the river for the salmon(destrying and smothering all life under it,only to mis fluctuate the water flow when the salmon were done spawning killing millions od eggs and ruining the Redds
vini
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yes i read about that and checked out some pictures online, some sort of miscommunication, yeah right they were warned not to drop the water to a certain level and did it anyhow then justified it by saying a small amount of fish would actually be lost due to the error, bunch of crap.
I forgot my darn camera today but I also didn't find the spot the supposed bedding areas were at. I think it was further back then I could walk, got a bum knee. I wish I didn't forget it I wanted to show you guys the old dredge tailing piles out there, miles and miles of them, 30-40 feet high above the river I did some sampling found small gold, fly speck in every pan, lots of gold there but must have to get deep to bedrock and I did see exposed bedrock in the river, i'll go back one of these days and do better sampling on top of bedrock.
I have more videos to upload so stay tuned.
Oakview2
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Vini
Hope the gold gods shined on your sluice. I am wondering if those tailing piles are on public land and if so they can be metal detected...
Hope the gold gods shined on your sluice. I am wondering if those tailing piles are on public land and if so they can be metal detected...
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