Dutchman's Caches

Idahodutch

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I'll start by sharing some of my view about why the cashes appeal to me.
1) since it would take doing a treasure trove deal for the mine itself the caches seem doable if found.
2) most likely very little disruption to the wilderness to extract.
3) you could find one of the caches and probably no one would know.

Number 3 can also means that maybe they have been empty for a long time.
I think I had gotten comfortable with the odds of them, simply because it seemed to me that without a good map and the ruggedness of the terrain, well that is why it is still lost.

So here is my dilemma, what if it turns out that there is a map that if real, practically shows the spot and definitely shows the ravine.

I liked the odds way better before I realized that there is a map to the super secret ravine that I think could really be it.

Now I'm thinking who made this map, where, when did it surface. Then I think about this most likely means. If it is the spot, then the mine would still be there, but the caches were probably taken by whoever made the map. The caches were enough and made a map so he could watch the show.

So, my back is bad and that ravine is one steep sob.
I wasn't interested in scouring the ravine without finding flour gold at least,from the stream in the canyon below.
I can confirm that this is so. I smelted the samples myself.

If someone finds it because of this post, 1 chunk of the LDM ore would be great.
The waltz map is showing Needle canyon, just north of Bull pass. (Tried to attach but all thumbs here - maybe someone will reply with map).
If you don't believe this map is showing that area then you need to look closer. Once you see it, it is actually a pretty good job.

P.S. If some does do a treasure trove for the mine, I would to like have permission to come watch.
Idaho Dutch
 
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Idahodutch

Idahodutch

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You all are probably thinking . . . why would anyone do this if they really thought they were on to it.
The reality is that I physically can't hold up anymore. So for what it is worth, it is my gift to you; it's value is unknown. Plus even a chunk of the LDM ore would really be something, wouldn't it?

Maybe I'm all wet, and everybody already saw and recognized the area depicted on the map, and just made a fool of myself. If so, I'm ok with that, because I sure have had a good time over the years. . lots of memories, adventure, excitement, simple pleasures, camp fires. . . really good times. Wouldn't trade it for the world.
 
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Idahodutch

Idahodutch

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Wow, I wasn't expecting this. You could almost hear a mouse sniff. Where did everyone go?
Was I wrong to share with you guys?
Idaho Dutch
 

azdave35

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Wow, I wasn't expecting this. You could almost hear a mouse sniff. Where did everyone go?
Was I wrong to share with you guys?
Idaho Dutch
i dont think anyone is interested..that area has been covered a bazillion times by many different people..chuck aylors and his wife lived in that area for years...if there was anything in the area chuck or one of the many others that worked that area would have found it
 
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Idahodutch

Idahodutch

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i dont think anyone is interested..that area has been covered a bazillion times by many different people..chuck aylors and his wife lived in that area for years...if there was anything in the area chuck or one of the many others that worked that area would have found it
Yes, but I was under the impression they were staying where they were because of their workings on Palomino. I think Aylor died in early 60's.
 

azdave35

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Yes, but I was under the impression they were staying where they were because of their workings on Palomino. I think Aylor died in early 60's.
he worked the entire area until he settled on palomino....there is definitely a big treasure on palomino....
 
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Idahodutch

Idahodutch

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he worked the entire area until he settled on palomino....there is definitely a big treasure on palomino....

Azdave, I wouldn't doubt it. Just look at it, stuff squirting out all over.
Then there is the one "no minor will find my mine" and then check out that ravine. Who would waste their time or possibly their life over something that, without applying any clues, really doesn't look so hot.
I have to admit, I had a hard time with it myself, but it seemed to be where the clues kept leading to.
Personally, it would be nice if somebody could eliminate this ravine, so I could quit trying to figure out a way to get my body back to that ravine.
 

azdave35

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Azdave, I wouldn't doubt it. Just look at it, stuff squirting out all over.
Then there is the one "no minor will find my mine" and then check out that ravine. Who would waste their time or possibly their life over something that, without applying any clues, really doesn't look so hot.
I have to admit, I had a hard time with it myself, but it seemed to be where the clues kept leading to.
Personally, it would be nice if somebody could eliminate this ravine, so I could quit trying to figure out a way to get my body back to that ravine.

truth be told most of the serious dutch hunters in the superstitions wern't really dutch hunters...they were treasure hunters looking for different treasures that are rumored to be stashed in there....what makes you think you have a mine in the ravine?....the samples you speak of...are they rocks or placer gravel?
 
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truth be told most of the serious dutch hunters in the superstitions wern't really dutch hunters...they were treasure hunters looking for different treasures that are rumored to be stashed in there....what makes you think you have a mine in the ravine?....the samples you speak of...are they rocks or placer gravel?

I did't see it, if that's what you mean, but looking at in person from different angles (like a wolf circling a t-rex, trying to decide he would survive an attack), and applying the clues, yeah, I think there is strong likelihood what is left of a filled in mine is there. That's hits the nail right on the head. The samples all appeared to the eye as having no gold. Bagged them up and labeled each one as to location. Later smelt each sample taking notes of locations for each. I would call it flour gold.

Edit- yes, I used a fresh crucible for each smelt.
Idaho Dutch.
 
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azdave35

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I did't see it, if that's what you mean, but looking at in person from different angles (like a wolf circling a t-rex, trying to decide he would survive an attack), and applying the clues, yeah, I think there is strong likelihood what is left of a filled in mine is there. That's hits the nail right on the head. The samples all appeared to the eye as having no gold. Bagged them up and labeled each one as to location. Later smelt each sample taking notes of locations for each. I would call it flour gold.

Edit- yes, I used a fresh crucible for each smelt.
Idaho Dutch.
if you had to smelt to get any gold it wasn't the ldm...you would be able to see gold all over the ore...sounds like it was float in the wash...it could have come a long ways downstream before it settled
 
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if you had to smelt to get any gold it wasn't the ldm...you would be able to see gold all over the ore...sounds like it was float in the wash...it could have come a long ways downstream before it settled

Got samples from Bluff Springs before it ties in to Needle Creek, from Needle Creek a couple of spots south of that junction, and then from Needle Creek just before the ravine and some spots below the ravine. Below the ravine there was lots of bedrock areas and decent samples were more difficult to get. Lots of tiny little pebbles and gritty dust. More gold was present from samples from below the ravine, than the rest put together. No gold was in the samples from Bluff Springs. I did not get material larger than maybe 1/3 size of a pea.
Dave, you sound like you know more about than I do, I just figured it was flour gold because I couldn't see any gold in the material but collected it anyway.
Does this rule it out?
 
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Idahodutch

Idahodutch

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azdave35

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it depends...are you talking about placer in the wash or float ore?...in arizona you can pan fine colors in just about any wash....if you are getting bigger pieces (pickers) then its time to start investigating..you dont have to go to the trouble of smelting...if its placer just use a pan...if it is float ore then crush and pan it...if its too small to see with your eyes in a pan it's probably not worth messing with..just because there is placer gold in a wash doesn't mean there is a big vein of gold on the hillside feeding the wash...arizona is a little different than alaska...colorado or california...alot of gold bearing veins in arizona are small quartz stringers and there could be dozens of them on the hillsides feeding the wash...you'll pull your hair out trying to trace the gold back to its source...
 
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Idahodutch

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it depends...are you talking about placer in the wash or float ore?...in arizona you can pan fine colors in just about any wash....if you are getting bigger pieces (pickers) then its time to start investigating..you dont have to go to the trouble of smelting...if its placer just use a pan...if it is float ore then crush and pan it...if its too small to see with your eyes in a pan it's probably not worth messing with..just because there is placer gold in a wash doesn't mean there is a big vein of gold on the hillside feeding the wash...arizona is a little different than alaska...colorado or california...alot of gold bearing veins in arizona are small quartz stringers and there could be dozens of them on the hillsides feeding the wash...you'll pull your hair out trying to trace the gold back to its source...
Dave,
Nice post. Below the ravine, it sounds like it was float but i didn't crush it before smelting.
The other samples were concentrates.
This was 11 years ago. I doubt I will make it back in there, at least with any ability to do much.
Idaho Dutch
 
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azdave35

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Dave,
Nice post. Below the ravine, it sounds like it was float but i didn't crush it before smelting.
The other samples were concentrates.
This was 11 years ago. I doubt I will make it back in there, at least with any ability to do much.
Idaho Dutch
one of the first hard lessons a prospector learns is not to pick up float and test it...if it turns out to be rich you will drive yourself nuts and waste years looking for the source...and the source is probably nowhere near the place you found the float
 
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Idahodutch

Idahodutch

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one of the first hard lessons a prospector learns is not to pick up float and test it...if it turns out to be rich you will drive yourself nuts and waste years looking for the source...and the source is probably nowhere near the place you found the float
Dave, I thinking that it's a good probability that a good portion of the material samples that I collected at the bottom of this ravine . . . came from this ravine. (click to enlarge)
Idaho Dutch
 

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I think I should mention a couple of other things.
On the east ridge near the top there is what looks like an old claim monument out of rocks. I did not check it for papers.
The other thing I noticed just down from the ridge, there are what looked to me to be two graves with piled rocks. If they are graves then maybe the Peraltas?
The claim should be checked out if that is what it is. You don't want to be shot.
Idaho Dutch.
 
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azdave35

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I think I should mention a couple of other things.
On the east ridge near the top there is what looks like an old claim monument out of rocks. I did not check it for papers.
The other thing I noticed just down from the ridge, there are what looked to me to be two graves with piled rocks. If they are graves then maybe the Peraltas?
The claim should be checked out if that is what it is. You don't want to be shot.
Idaho Dutch.
there are no current claims in the superstitions..its wilderness area..no claims allowed
 
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Idahodutch

Idahodutch

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there are no current claims in the superstitions..its wilderness area..no claims allowed
I have received some pm's talking about just that. It seems like there is a good chance you statement may not be accurate. So I thought it prudent to at least let you guys know. I don't want to be getting anyone killed.
Idaho Dutch
 

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