Eagle Facing Left - Towards Talon with Arrows - New Thread for 2009 Button

BioProfessor · Dec 15, 2010

Last year, there was a thread about a strange eagle button with the eagle facing to our left and that talon held the arrows.

Here is another button like that but this one is adorned with "GW" on the shoulder of the eagle. It's silver.

Any ideas from the real hard-core button folks?

Thanks,

Daryl

Kiros32 · Dec 16, 2010

Did you dig that?

Unfortunately I can't offer an ID, but it's a beautiful button! Any backmark?

Kiros32 · Dec 16, 2010

Wait, are you asking for an ID for the one at the bottom from 2009 or both? :icon_scratch:

I'm confused haha

BioProfessor · Dec 16, 2010

just top one. no backmark. bottom one is from 2009 thread.

daryl

IronSpike · Dec 16, 2010

Awesome button :icon_sunny:

Couldn't match it to any GW inaugural buttons listed here:

http://kirkmitchell.tripod.com/CobbGW/

The closest (eagle/GW) I could find was this button found in the UK, which has a date of 1789:

http://www.colchestertreasurehunting.co.uk/oldnews2.htm

I'll tag along to see the ID on this button :thumbsup:

BioProfessor · Dec 16, 2010

Me either. I looked at all the GW buttons on tripod as well as the ones in Albert. Colchesterhunting Club is the group I hunt with in the UK and I couldn't find anything there on the "Found in the Ground" site.

The "GW" looks right but maybe what a jeweler would do. And the Eagle looks more like an Eagle than the chicken look it had back in GW's time.

Thanks,

Daryl

Iron Patch · Dec 17, 2010

Total case of apples and oranges for those two. One looks like a legit period GW, and the other just a later whatever eagle button.

BioProfessor · Dec 17, 2010

I am well aware that it is apples and oranges but I can't find anything close in GW buttons. The eagle looks later and the GW script is different and I can't find a button with GW on the shoulders of the eagle.

The only reason I put them together is the eagle is facing the same way and the arrows are in that talon. I was hoping information about that would help ID the button.

One is a one-piece silver and the other is a 2-piece brass. I know they are different.

Daryl

Iron Patch · Dec 17, 2010

IronSpike said:
Awesome button

Couldn't match it to any GW inaugural buttons listed here:

http://kirkmitchell.tripod.com/CobbGW/

The closest (eagle/GW) I could find was this button found in the UK, which has a date of 1789:

http://www.colchestertreasurehunting.co.uk/oldnews2.htm

I'll tag along to see the ID on this button

The eagle button from the Colchester site might be unique, but was definitely not looked at as a GW because it only sold for $400 on Ebay.

Iron Patch · Dec 17, 2010

BioProfessor said:
I am well aware that it is apples and oranges but I can't find anything close in GW buttons. The eagle looks later and the GW script is different and I can't find a button with GW on the shoulders of the eagle.

The only reason I put them together is the eagle is facing the same way and the arrows are in that talon. I was hoping information about that would help ID the button.

One is a one-piece silver and the other is a 2-piece brass. I know they are different.

Daryl

So what's the story on the first one? There's got to be more than just finding a pic online. Not being able to match it might not be a bad thing for the person who owns it.

PS... It doesn't look dug. No picture of the back?

BioProfessor · Dec 17, 2010

A friend is trying to sell it to me. Neither of us can find a similar button.

Daryl

Iron Patch · Dec 17, 2010

BioProfessor said:
A friend is trying to sell it to me. Neither of us can find a similar button.

Daryl

I gather he didn't dig it? Can you post a picture of the back?

BioProfessor · Dec 17, 2010

He dug it.

Iron Patch · Dec 17, 2010

BioProfessor said:
He dug it.

The back wouldn't come out looking like that dug, and if he had very aggressively cleaned it the rest should show signs of it. I'm not calling him a liar, but was this button dug with modern finds?

BioProfessor · Dec 17, 2010

I've seen silver buttons come out much cleaner than this and they had been in the ground 400 years.

Here some others found in the same area.

Daryl

Iron Patch · Dec 17, 2010

BioProfessor said:
I've seen silver buttons come out much cleaner than this and they had been in the ground 400 years.

Here some others found in the same area.

Daryl

Yes, some can come out nice because they are plated. The problem with the eagle in question is the condition of the front and back does not match, as well as the "silver" spot on the reverse looks more like a blob than what remains of silver plate. There is no explanation for what I see other than it being a modern button.

And you didn't answer my question. Was it found with modern targets? I would expect the answer to be yes. If not, than that in my opinion was pretty unlucky. This is just what makes sense to me and if anyone can suggest something different I'd be very interested to hear it.

BioProfessor · Dec 17, 2010

It's not plated. It silver. I have found many buttons and coins that come out of the ground and one side is better than the other. My opinion is that the object was flat in the ground for a long time and the surface that faced up and shows more effect of the chemicals or acid rain than the surface that faced down. In this case, the shank side was up.

There is always modern stuff in 99.9% of the places we all hunt. The other buttons were all found in the same area as the one I posted.

The mark on the back is the result of trying to straighten the shank. It snapped off and left the shiny surface.

I don't understand the issue of the condition of the silver.

Daryl

Iron Patch · Dec 17, 2010

BioProfessor said:
It's not plated. It silver. I have found many buttons and coins that come out of the ground and one side is better than the other. My opinion is that the object was flat in the ground for a long time and the surface that faced up and shows more effect of the chemicals or acid rain than the surface that faced down. In this case, the shank side was up.

There is always modern stuff in 99.9% of the places we all hunt. The other buttons were all found in the same area as the one I posted.

The mark on the back is the result of trying to straighten the shank. It snapped off and left the shiny surface.

I don't understand the issue of the condition of the silver.

Daryl

So how can a broken shank leave a build-up of silver? If the button is from 1789 and silver, I would think there would have been a very clean back with shank. Breaking it would simply leave two very small silver spots side by side.

Still not making sense to me.

BioProfessor · Dec 17, 2010

Ah, it's silver as well and doesn't break clean. Duh.

A shank does not always have two points of attachment. Some have one. It had a bent shank, now it has what was left.

I never said anything about 1789.

Condition of the back - silver or not - will depend on what it was exposed to and the purity of the silver. Only gold doesn't react to environmental conditions. Hence the term noble metal which silver is not.

Maybe you need some more coffee this morning.

Iron Patch · Dec 17, 2010

BioProfessor said:
Ah, it's silver as well and doesn't break clean. Duh.

A shank does not always have two points of attachment. Some have one. It had a bent shank, now it has what was left.

I never said anything about 1789.

Condition of the back - silver or not - will depend on what it was exposed to and the purity of the silver. Only gold doesn't react to environmental conditions. Hence the term noble metal which silver is not.

Maybe you need some more coffee this morning.

Well if I had a GW button I think I would ID it first before messing with the back. And if I tried to straighten the shank I'm quite sure I would not come out with that result.

Maybe you shouldn't be asking for hardcore button guys.