Ebay problem seller... what would you do?

[biggmike]

I don't blame you. I find it so hard to believe that someone would ruin their reputation and probably get suspended and maybe completely kicked off eBay for 5 bucks. I have decided the buyer is ALWAYS right and that is how eBay likes it. I run into so few problem buyers that I rarely have to deal with it. (I'm not implying that you were a problem though. I think you were absolutely right in this situation). If you are a seller on eBay you must keep your feedback top notch or you won't last long OR you just won't make much money......

 

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[buttonfinder48]

So I don't think I have ever posted but I have been reading the forums for years and I had to make a comment on here. I run a small business through Ebay and I have dealt with this situation many times. While I do agree that the sellers response to you was completely wrong I dont know how you responded to him after you saw it was crammed into the smaller box. Once you actually hit the buy it now button on the item you should have paid the shipping for the item. You should not have asked for a lower shipping price after YOU already agreed to the higher shipping price. The biggest problem I have is I have been back into a corner a few times with people that do not agree to something after they have already bought it. Then I am forced to agree with them otherwise they can leave me a low DSR or a negative just because they feel like it. Ebay will not protect me as a seller against this. They just say feedback cannont be removed unless for extreme circumstances. I mean my question is what would you have done if he would have said that the shipping is 15 and that is that? I think it is crazy that people expect sellers to absorb all of the fees and handling charges associated with an item. I mean think about it, a Medium flat rate box cost 10.85 and then the guy has to pay the 14% of fees (10% from ebay and 4% from paypal) which is about 1.51 in fees. Then his ink and paper and whatever else his shipping costs him. Which is around 15 dollars. I know Ebays shipping says you cant include fees in the shipping costs but really you should have just left it all alone.

It kills me that you buy an item from some guy who, like you said has only sold a few times on ebay, and you expect him to absorb about 3 dollars. You buy the item and then create a situation and now in the end the only one that is really hurting is the guy that you negatived and killed his DSRs. Then you called Ebay and put him on a Radar for no reason. I mean have you ever bought from Amazon or anywhere else online. You wouldnt call them and give them a hard time about it you would probably just pay it and never say a word. Now this guy has to go through heck just because he listed something on ebay.

In case you were wondering I have over 3000 positive feedbacks and have never gotten a negative and have 5 DSRs for everything. If you would have messeged me and asked me I would have taken care of you but I would have blocked your ebay name just because of the trouble.

 

[cheese]

Since you didn't read the entire thread here, I'll repeat the fact that I asked him if he could put it in a medium flat rate box to save me a little shipping, but if not, I would pay, either way. In fact, here, I will copy my exact words to him right here, copied and pasted from my sent message box:

I said, "Can you just put this in a medium flat rate box from the post office? It's only $10.50 and it will be priority mail instead of regular post (save me money and get here faster)? Let me know... will pay as soon as I hear back, either way."

When I got it in a small box with the lid popped open and no packing, I politely sent another message asking about why I didn't get it shipped the way I asked. He replied rudely and unprofessionally. You don't know how the conversation went, but let's suffice to say that the ebay employees who have been looking at his messages have said things like "wow", "unprofessional", "I see why you are upset", and similar things. This, coming from people who deal with similar situations on a daily basis.

Now, what did I do so wrong here? The buyer put the item up for sale. He knows what is involved in selling an item. He could have said no to my question, but Instead, he agreed, made the invoice, then shipped it in contradiction to the invoice AND our contract. Tell me again how I am the one wrong here.

I fail to see how I need to be responsible for making sure his printer ink cartridge cost is accounted for.

You seem to also have missed that I am a top rated power seller as well. I know what is involved, and I don't milk people for money. I operate a respectable store and auction and have 100% positive feedback and 5 stars as well. I have never had a negative, ever. It will probably happen some day, but my rating speaks for itself. If I was unprofessional or made unreasonable demands, my feedback would reflect that.

 

[Iron Patch]

I agree, it's a lot of trouble for $5, but the way I see it, I am learning and that is worth something. I also enjoy the challenge, the battle of wits. It's part of my nature I guess, that I get hung up on principle and defend it no matter the cost or gain, and don't mind it at all. He will not win this.

Something else that I have not considered before, is the fact that buying and selling under the same user name is not a good idea as you said IP. Thanks for bringing that up! Another thing learned out of this... so there is value in this conflict. I never even considered that a person would be this irrational and try to purchase an item at their expense to cause me trouble. Deranged. I also have more restrictions and securities on my ebay account than I had before. It used to be very lax. Another benefit. This guy thinks he's messing me up, but he's actually doing me a favor.

I just see it and handle things a little different, and I actually deal with similar situations all the time because I buy a lot online, and am constantly trying to knock down the shipping as it saves me a great deal over time. My point of view is if I get the seller to drop and save me money I don't care how they send it as long as it arrives safely. I too wouldn't be happy about improper packing, but for me it's about the bottom line... which was I saved a bit on the shipping, and did get the item. I'll also add that you bought with the higher shipping listed, and what you have to consider is other potential buyers calculated that cost into the price, so essentially that $5 can be argued as being rightfully the sellers cash. I'll give you an example of how I use this to my advantage. I actually don't mind a seller listing with high shipping because I always bid with the thought that I can get that cost down, even if I have to write a paragraph to explain who I am, how much I buy, and for how long I've been doing it, and from experience I know it works. So say the item was listed with $12 shipping, I cut it down to $6, what the seller is not really thinking about is most of the bidders calculated their bid with $12 shipping, so the reality of negotiating after the sale puts that extra $6 in my pocket when I sell it. For this reason as a seller I very rarely negotiate after the sale unless there's some other circumstance going on and it would be to my advantage to do so, and every deal is different, so it is possible for that to happen. So with all that being said, it's why I would not have made a big deal about $5. I too have had times where I battled for very little, but it was a different set of circumstances, mostly as a result of a seller wanting me to pay twice the cost of the item just to send it registered mail.... an example being I buy a $5 coin and they want me to pay $10 to get the signature, just so they will be covered for the $5 if it goes missing. Now that is being a total idiot, and I don't run into it often, but a couple of times there was just no way they would back down, almost as if they couldn't understand how insanely stupid it was. That's the type of situation I would fight about the shipping, not so much about the money, more that I feel I have to drill some sense into this person's head.

 

[Iron Patch]

Since you didn't read the entire thread here, I'll repeat the fact that I asked him if he could put it in a medium flat rate box to save me a little shipping, but if not, I would pay, either way. In fact, here, I will copy my exact words to him right here, copied and pasted from my sent message box:

I said, "Can you just put this in a medium flat rate box from the post office? It's only $10.50 and it will be priority mail instead of regular post (save me money and get here faster)? Let me know... will pay as soon as I hear back, either way."

When I got it in a small box with the lid popped open and no packing, I politely sent another message asking about why I didn't get it shipped the way I asked. He replied rudely and unprofessionally. You don't know how the conversation went, but let's suffice to say that the ebay employees who have been looking at his messages have said things like "wow", "unprofessional", "I see why you are upset", and similar things. This, coming from people who deal with similar situations on a daily basis.

Now, what did I do so wrong here? The buyer put the item up for sale. He knows what is involved in selling an item. He could have said no to my question, but Instead, he agreed, made the invoice, then shipped it in contradiction to the invoice AND our contract. Tell me again how I am the one wrong here.

I fail to see how I need to be responsible for making sure his printer ink cartridge cost is accounted for.

You seem to also have missed that I am a top rated power seller as well. I know what is involved, and I don't milk people for money. I operate a respectable store and auction and have 100% positive feedback and 5 stars as well. I have never had a negative, ever. It will probably happen some day, but my rating speaks for itself. If I was unprofessional or made unreasonable demands, my feedback would reflect that.

The fact you do not have a negative tends to indicate you probably would overlook something a little more being on the seller side than on the buyer one, and if nothing has really come up so far, I bet you would. That's because you like everyone else knows the buyer can hold the feedback over the sellers head. Now I'm not saying what's right or wrong here, but I bet you would not be inclined to be in a $5 fight as the seller.

PS: You'll catch a negative at some point and it will probably be one you never seen coming, nor can do anything about, because some people just act like idiots, are stupid, or crazy, or a combination of all three.

 

[pong12211]

People like this are just ridiculous in my opinion.. My wife had a similar problem with one of these idiots on ebay.. I gave her the same advice i'm going to give you.. Just because your item arrived and was intact.. Does not excuse the fact that this seller took advantage of you and more or less conned you.. I would not hesitate to give a bad review and try to help prevent this from happening to others including youself in the future...

 

[GibH]

Your original post pretty much sums it up. You took a petty matter (your words) and blew it out of proportion. If you did not like the shipping, you should have contacted the seller before bidding. This is also stated on ebay's guidelines. Your quote from ebay does not mean you can't charge more, it is just a definition of what constitutes actual shipping cost.

You should have left him feedback with the appropriate DSRs and been done with it.

 

[Iron Patch]

You should have left him feedback with the appropriate DSRs and been done with it.

I agree, either positive or neutral, with a 1 rating on the shipping.

 

[diggummup]

Mountain out of a mole hill type of situation here. As Gib stated, any conversations regarding reduced shipping should have been done before bidding. As I state in my auctions, "Please ask any and all questions before bidding I will be happy to answer them for you to the best of my ability". That being said, because he did agree to send it in a medium flat rate box, he should have. Since he didn't, low dsr's and maybe a neutral fb would have been sufficient. When it comes to buying, I'm like biggmike, I don't take shipping charges into account separately, I look at the total cost myself. Personally, I always try to make a dollar or 2 of off shipping, just to help cover ebays cut, as well as the shipping materials and handling time involved in packaging.

 

[biggmike]

I too would have just moved on and blocked the guy but I still don't blame Cheese for the feedback. Cheese said "He replied rudely and unprofessionally. You don't know how the conversation went, but let's suffice to say that the eBay employees who have been looking at his messages have said things like "wow", "unprofessional", "I see why you are upset" If I treat someone rudely and unprofessionally (which I would never do) I would expect bad feedback. Regardless of the situation, if we believe that Cheese was treated "rudely and unprofessionally" while he was being "polite" and we are still telling him he shouldn't leave bad feedback then what does someone have to do to get a negative rating?

 

[Iron Patch]

then what does someone have to do to get a negative rating?

They don't send you the item.

 

[biggmike]

They don't send you the item.

There is a lot more to selling then just sending the item....

 

[cheese]

There is a lot more to selling then just sending the item....

Exactly. When you get crappy service at a restaurant, you don't go back, and you tell others, right? Feedback.

I don't see much point in arguing it, I already left the feedback and it's done now. I didn't make a mountain out of a molehill, he did by being rude to my reply when I asked why I didn't get the service I paid for. I agreed to pay either way. He was violating policy by making money on shipping. Why would you not try to get lower shipping? Before or after the sale...doesn't matter. There was not a lot of time for chit-chat before the sale ended, and I was willing to pay the listed shipping price to start with. There is no "negotiating" after the sale here, just a request for different shipping. Negotiating is for the price of an item. The shipping is not part of the price and is not supposed to be a negotiable thing... the seller is to charge no more than the exact shipping. Period. Packing and related expenses goes under handling per the rules. All I asked for was different shipping. He agreed, charged me for it, then cheated me by shipping a cheaper way.

Anyway, he was rude, lied, violated policy, stole $5 from me, didn't honor our agreement, and then tried to get revenge, and some folks here think I am the one in the wrong. Funny world we live in these days.

 

[buttonfinder48]

While I agree he may have been a jerk to begin you should have asked before you actually hit the buy it now. That is the biggest problem I have with it. You hit buy it now with all of his terms and conditions on the page and then negotiated after you had made an agreement. Here is what alot of people do not understand is once you do that no matter if you had the best experience ever you can still leave a negative for no good reason. He may not have agreed to do so if you would have contacted before hand but since you had bought it now he may have thought you would give him a low dsr or a negative if he said no the shipping cost is the shipping cost. If you thought he violated policy with his shipping cost you should not have bought from him. There is a little button right below the feedback that says report a buyer and you can fill it out that says his shipping is too high. The thing that really bothers me is you got exactly what you wanted. You paid 5 less for shipping. You got the item and there was no damage but this guy gets a negative, low dsrs, and you report him to Ebay because in your opinion the shipping was too high. It is a funny world we live in because it looks like the only one that is getting his revenge is you.

O about the ink I print all of my labels off from ebay with my own printer so I take into account of ink with shipping costs.

 

[calisdad]

What's your time worth? You got what you paid for and paid the agreed upon charges. Sounds like you just didn't like the box it came in. Seriously- I'd just move on. If I get into a transaction that is predominately correct but something wasn't quite right (long delivery time etc.) I just don't leave feedback. You could be spending your time doing something constructive.

 

[stonehenge]

You offered to buy his item. That's the end of it.

Haggling about shipping should not have been part of the transaction after the fact. If you didn't like his shipping charges, you should have asked before you bid, not after you won. He either had to go along with you to save his own rating or decline and then relist and wait a few more days because you effectively welched on the deal.

Shipping is not 100% pass through. Time, gas, tape and most shipping materials cost money. If he was within eBay's limits for shipping and started his auction artificially lower than others did with a few extra few bucks for shipping, that is not stealing. It is Marketing. Your request cut into his margin and likely made HIM lose money so he is well within his rights to save himself money to counter your move. If you charge only postage when you have to package your sales, tape them, pay for your Internet and paper and then take them to the post office, then you are not a bright businessman.

If your item was damaged because he used the wrong size packaging, that's a bad decision on his part and there is another way to handle that. However, the smaller box but was directly a result of your actions and giving the seller a bad rating IF your item arrived as advertised and in good condition is, well, just rude.

Unless the seller is holding you hostage by overcharging you and forcing COD, your problem is self inflicted. We all want the best deal but no one should be forced to LOSE so you can save your buck.

 

[biggmike]

I'm not sure what you guys don't understand about eBay's policy. Cheese added it to an earlier post and I will add it again.
What you can charge: Actual shipping cost: This is the amount for shipping the item. It should be what you paid the carrier. There is a place to charge for handling if you choose to do that. The guy clearly broke the rules but I don't think that is where the rating came from, I believe it came from the buyer being treated "rudely and unprofessionally". I too used to charge a little extra on shipping but I was unaware it was against policy. If someone bought an item from me then politely pointed that out to me I would have refunded the extra shipping back to him plain and simple. I offer free shipping on 99% of my listings anyways.

 

[Iron Patch]

There is a lot more to selling then just sending the item....

Yes, and you asked for an example of what would deserve a negative, and the item not arriving wouldn't even be negative in all cases. In the situation being discussed I would have left positive, and 1 on the DSR.

 

[Iron Patch]

I'm not sure what you guys don't understand about eBay's policy. Cheese added it to an earlier post and I will add it again.
What you can charge: Actual shipping cost: This is the amount for shipping the item. It should be what you paid the carrier. There is a place to charge for handling if you choose to do that. The guy clearly broke the rules but I don't think that is where the rating came from, I believe it came from the buyer being treated "rudely and unprofessionally". I too used to charge a little extra on shipping but I was unaware it was against policy. If someone bought an item from me then politely pointed that out to me I would have refunded the extra shipping back to him plain and simple. I offer free shipping on 99% of my listings anyways.

There's probably millions of people who charge more, so using ebay policy - which in most cases is just a guideline for common sense, can be nothing more than a tool to convince yourself you're right, and in this case the seller deserving negative. Of all the arguments made why he deserved negative, that is probably the worst. To be an ebay policy hawk would probably leave you no time to ebay, you'd be too busy negotiating your sales, but hopefully before the fact.

 

[biggmike]

There's probably millions of people who charge more, so using ebay policy - which in most cases is just a guideline for common sense, can be nothing more than a tool to convince yourself you're right, and in this case the seller deserving negative. Of all the arguments made why he deserved negative, that is probably the worst. To be an ebay policy hawk would probably leave you no time to ebay, you'd be too busy negotiating your sales, but hopefully before the fact.

Read my post again.... I said I thought the rating came from rude and unprofessional behavior and not the shipping charge and to say eBay POLICY is just a guideline is crazy... After each guideline as you call it there is a little note saying if you don't go by these policies you can be suspended or kicked off of the site completely. That doesn't sound like a guideline to me. TNet's policy is that if you cuss someone out on Tnet you could be kicked off the site. If the admins suspend you or kick you off the site is that wrong? No, it isn't wrong you are just lucky if they just warn you but you can't blame them if you get kicked off. I also said I would have handled it differently too but Cheese isn't me and if I treat someone rudely I would expect a negative rating.