Emerald group is given ship

[keywesttdiver]

Robbies Marina in Key West has been notified by the lawyers for the billionaire New York investor that Delaware court has given the 115 foot boat r/v Global Explorer [formerly Spirit of LaSalle] to Salvage Boat Leasing llc .This llc is owned by Jay Miscovich . I think its starting to be clearer who the good-guys are in the emerald case. congrats to Jay and his group !

 

[old man]

Robbies Marina in Key West has been notified by the lawyers for the billionaire New York investor that Delaware court has given the 115 foot boat r/v Global Explorer [formerly Spirit of LaSalle] to Salvage Boat Leasing llc .This llc is owned by Jay Miscovich . I think its starting to be clearer who the good-guys are in the emerald case. congrats to Jay and his group !

I think you missed telling everyone that while you Captained the 115 foot La Salle ( Without any type of Captain's license. ) You had a collision with another 100 foot ship, causing $30K in damage to that vessel and the Bill for repairs for the La Salle because of that collision at Robbie's Marina was in excess of $50K .

Also in my opinion a 115 foot Dinner Cruise Boat ( La Salle ) with very little deck space is hardly the type of ship that anyone with any knowledge of salvage boats, would buy for a salvage vessel.
However, I think you and the floating hotel will do well together.

 

[Escudoman]

Old man, now they can put back the electronics they stole from the ship. Maybe find the $18000.00 in life rafts they stole also. ooops! The pilot can also go through a driving safety course. While he testifies in court why he ran over the rubbber ducky at Robbies marina.
Gerrison

 

[FISHEYE]

Oldman,

Didnt someone try to sink the La Salle while it was at the dock?

 

[Escudoman]

Well I know for a fact it was sinking.

Hey guys get a load of the dredge being built for my father. He already has two other 8 in dredges he will ne running in Febuary.

Gerrison

 

[psdiver]

Fisher challenges emerald claim
BY ADAM LINHARDT Citizen Staff
alinhardt@keysnews.com
http://keysnews.com/node/37095

1/10/2012

When Key West treasure salvor Jay Miscovich found emeralds worth as much as $500 million scattered on the sandy sea floor with no ballast pile or other sign of a shipwreck nearby, other salvors took notice.

But thus far, only one salvor is legally challenging Miscovich's claim to the treasure. Kim Fisher, the son of the late treasure-hunting legend Mel Fisher and head of Delaware-based salvage company Motivation Inc. claims the gems Miscovich recovered in the Gulf of Mexico in January 2010 came from the Spanish galleon Nuestra Señora de Atocha, which sank in a hurricane off Key West in 1622.

The Fisher family's companies have a legal claim to the Atocha and her sister ship, the Santa Margarita.

Though none of the precious stones were listed on manifests of the Atocha or the Santa Margarita -- the Spanish crown required only gold and silver to be listed -- Fisher claims Atocha inventories suggest it was carrying a large number of gems like those Miscovich recovered.

Though Miscovich has not found remnants of a ship on his site, he did find a cannonball, said his attorney, David Paul Horan. The exact location of the treasure site has not been disclosed, but it is west of Key West and at least 40 miles north of the main Atocha site, according to court documents.

If the stones were not from the Atocha or the Santa Margarita, then their source remains a mystery. For now. Fisher claims the Atocha site's boundaries have been amended periodically because the ship broke apart and was pushed northward by the hurricane that sank it, and from prevailing winds and ocean currents since that time, according to court documents.

"The Atocha artifact scatter trail now extends northward approximately 9.5 nautical miles from the Hawk's Channel Outer Reef point of impact that caused her sinking," according to court documents.

That scatter trail reportedly has continued a northern course through the Quicksands area, about 18 miles west of the Marquesas Keys, over the past two years.

Horan said the Atocha site and scatter trail have always been amended west by northwest, not some 40 miles due north, where Miscovich claims he found the gems. Fisher's claim disputes that location, saying Miscovich found the gems from 26 miles to 30 miles north.

Miscovich's company, JTR Enterprises, is asking U.S. District Judge James Lawrence King to dismiss Fisher's claim, and if dismissal is denied to ask Fisher to establish "objectively, verifiable criteria" when identifying Atocha emeralds, Horan said. "Otherwise, we're putting the cart before the horse," Horan said.

The emeralds, stored in a safe deposit box in New York City and a jewelry store in Pennsylvania, are headed to a safe deposit box in Key West, where they must be stored for the judge to have jurisdiction in the case, Horan said.

Miscovich submitted samples of the emeralds for analysis to the Smithsonian Institution's Museum of Natural History in Washington, D.C., the Gemological Institute of America and laboratories in France and Switzerland, according to court records. Miscovich plans to publish those findings when they are complete.

There appears little argument on either side that many of the stones were mined in the Muzo region of Colombia, in the foothills of the Andes. That determination was made by the Smithsonian, according to court documents.

There is some evidence, however, that some of the emeralds came not just from the Muzo mines, but the Chivor mines in Colombia, another heavily mined area that was abandoned in 1593, about 30 years before the Atocha sank.

alinhardt@keysnews.com
http://keysnews.com/node/37095

 

[Escudoman]

Personally my dad and I hope the Fishers win. JMO
Gerrison

 

[psdiver]

"Didnt someone try to sink the La Salle while it was at the dock?"


I made some calls, and this is what I was told.

There was a leak in a plastic(PVC) elbow for the cooling lines in the AC under the galley floor. After many days of the boat being unattended it flooded the front bulkhead. Never being in danger of sinking. Has been repaired

The electronics where never stolen. They where removed and secured till after ownership of the R/V Global Explorer would be determined by courts.

 

[old man]

"Didnt someone try to sink the La Salle while it was at the dock?"


I made some calls, and this is what I was told.

There was a leak in a plastic(PVC) elbow for the cooling lines in the AC under the galley floor. After many days of the boat being unattended it flooded the front bulkhead. Never being in danger of sinking. Has been repaired

The electronics where never stolen. They where removed and secured till after ownership of the R/V Global Explorer would be determined by courts.

psdiver, never assume that what some one tells you is true. I was on the La Salle when it was dry docked for repairs that your unlicensed friend acting as a boat Captain on the 115 ft. La Salle ran into another ship causing $30K in damages to that crew boat and about $50K in damages to the La Salle. I will tell you for a FACT. there was no leak in a PVC value. Then again I heard you worked on the la salle for a very short time, if you ever went into the bilge, you would have known that. I also wouldn't call 4 foot of water in the bilge " not being in danger of sinking."

As to the electronics being stolen, they were and there was a police report made out to that fact. The story your unlicensed boat captain friend gave to the the Det. was this, the electronics didn't work and he took them off the boat. I've heard about 3 stories on how YOUR FRIENDS found the emeralds in key west. I guess one of the three stories THEY gave out is right.

 

[Escudoman]

Thank you Old Man. I worked with you and my dad and everything you say is true. The bottom of the ship was a mess. Improper magnesium electrodes instead of zinc plus the damage from the collison that the illustrious operations manager did led to the ships sinking. One never puts magnesium on an aluminum hull. Everyone knows that. There were also less than half the electrodes on the hull and none on the prop shafts or Rudders. Many of the seams had to be reweldedT this should have been done before she was launched out of drydock in Pensacola the year before. To steal the electronics and then lie about why they were removed after bragging that he would make the ship inoperable or sink her to my father was a stupid thing to do. But that's just my opinion. By the way you did a wonderful job of repair with my Dad. Now I see the thieves will benefit from all our hard work for Dean barr. Diamonds in Africa seem to be less dangerous than the death threats my father got while in Key West. JMO
Gerrison

 

[Cowboytreasurediver]

Once again, I will set the record straight! This IS the Director of Operations of what used to be Emerald Reef LLC. and now JTR Enterprises. I have proof of a captains license when the mishap occurred, and I have proof of the actual damage that was done to both the Spree as well as the Global Explorer. IF anyone wants to dispute these FACTS, they can meet with me in person and I will present the receipt for the repair work done, it came to a total of $385.00!!!!!!!! Let me spell that out for all the [mod]Coment Removed Uncalled For[/mod] out there,,,, three hundred and eighty five dollars and zero cents!!! 7 people witnessed the mishap which was unavoidable due to a strong gust of wind and the port side engine failing while trying to maneuver and know for a fact that the only damage done was broken welds on the hand rail of the spree, and the coast guard did an inspection with a report of the damage as well as the incident. I have a copy of that report as well. Which brings me to another issue, the accusation of theft! I also have a full report of the claimed theft. The investigating officer has all the proof of emails authorizing the removal and planned replacement of all electronics by a company that Neil Ash hired to replace all of the electronics. As for the life rafts, they are still sitting up at the Viking repair facility awaiting authorization to be re certified to put back on the boat, which the investigating officer even got a copy of that receipt from Viking as well. All of these FACTS can be proven via receipt, emails, as well as eye witness reports. If anyone wants to verify this, feel free to contact myself, or Frank, the owner of the Spree to ask exactly how much it cost. Then contact the Coast Guard to get a copy of the report to show what actually happened instead of listening to these jealous, self righteous, pieces of garbage who think they sit on top of the treasure hunting world. I could go on and on defending myself against these idiots, but I don't have to prove anything to them. I will not respond after this posting no matter what is said, because i will not use these forums like a little child and throw mud, that is not what they were intended for. Grow up gentlemen, and I use that term lightly. It is sad to see these grown men sit and cry about this because things didn't turn out they way they wanted to. Jay nor myself have ever in any way shape or form given any kind of threat to gerry, garrison, or ed, as a matter of fact, it was the other way around, they called us out to meet at sloppy joes in key west and even had the audacity to put it in an email that they were "packing", (which we did not respond to) and by the way, the officer has that email as well. Have a nice day!

 

[Escudoman]

 

[psdiver]

Gems coming back
Emeralds must be here for court case
BY ADAM LINHARDT Citizen Staff
alinhardt@keysnews.com

Determining ownership of a cache of emeralds found in the Gulf of Mexico two years ago, purported to be worth hundreds of millions of dollars, may come down to whether Key West's most well-known treasure hunting family can prove they have a legal claim to them.

U.S. District Court Judge James Lawrence King on Tuesday told attorneys on both sides that Kim Fisher, son of the late treasure-hunting legend Mel Fisher and head of the Delaware-based salvage company Motivation Inc., needs to cite case law stating the Fisher family has a legal claim to treasure from the Spanish galleon Nuestra Señora de Atocha and its sister ship Santa Margarita, even if such treasure is found outside the "scatter trail." That is the line of treasure or artifacts that has been shifting off the main ballast piles due to currents and storms over the years.

Fisher filed a legal claim to the emeralds that treasure diver Jay Miscovich reportedly found in January 2010 about 40 miles northeast of the Atocha and Margarita sites, saying they came from the Atocha or Margarita, which Miscovich denies.

Once that matter is resolved, the judge may move forward in the discovery process, which would allow Fisher's experts to analyze the gemstones. Fisher wants to look at the emeralds, and his attorneys told the judge that if he does so and determines the stones didn't come from either shipwreck, he would drop his claim.

"Basically, all we want to do is have our experts look at those emeralds and if they determine they didn't come from the Atocha or the Margarita, then fine, we're out of there," Fisher said Friday. "But if they did come from those shipwrecks, then we have to talk."

The judge, who has been presiding over Fisher family treasure claims for the last 36 years, said that process will have to wait for now.

Miscovich's attorney, David Paul Horan, said his client didn't want to turn over the emeralds for Fisher to examine until Fisher explains more fully in court why he thinks the gemstones came from the Atocha or Margarita. He called Fisher's desire to look at the gemstones a "fishing expedition."

The two wrecked Spanish galleons and the legalities surrounding their valuable cargo are familiar territory for Horan, who famously represented Mel Fisher in the 1970s and 80s. Horan was part of the legal team that argued in front of the U.S. Supreme Court and ultimately won the case against the state of Florida that allowed Fisher to keep the treasure he found.

Miscovich claims there's no way the emeralds came from the Fisher shipwrecks because they came from Colombian mines that did not operate when the Atocha or Margarita sailed. Both galleons sank in 1622 in a hurricane off Key West. Horan added that the stones Miscovich found are of a different quality than those that have been found on the Atocha or Margarita.

Fisher is quick to point out that Miscovich reportedly found the gemstones scattered on the sandy sea floor, absent any evidence of a nearby shipwreck other than the Atocha or Margarita. A piece from either shipwreck could have drifted in a storm and shifted miles to where Miscovich found them, Fisher said.

Despite Miscovich's desire that Fisher not examine the emeralds right now, he has voluntarily agreed to return them all to Key West because they must physically be in Florida's southern federal judicial district for the court to have jurisdiction over them.

Some of them are in a safe-deposit box in Key West, but many others are at a jewelry store in Pennsylvania and still more are in a New York City bank safe-deposit box, Horan told the judge. The emeralds in New York City and Pennsylvania are being returned to Key West with armed security, which has piqued the interest of "60 Minutes." The CBS news program will film some of the emeralds' travels for an upcoming broadcast, Horan said.

Nothing is certain in treasure salvage law and it appeared from the judge's questions for attorneys on both sides Tuesday that the opening salvos in this legal row are only just beginning.

alinhardt@keysnews.com
http://keysnews.com/node/37234

 

[CanadianTrout]

So, in my limited understanding, don't salvage companies purchase/register/claim (however it works) "lease areas" as apposed to claiming the actual ship? Or no?

Or is it claiming the ship and having rights to a certain amount of area around it as their sole ownership to work?


What if I found a shipwreck and got a lease or claim on the location that included a certain amount of area around it. As I'm working the wreck I discover a large chunk of it seems to be missing. Later it turns out this missing chunk floated for 250 miles before settling on the bottom. If this is outside my lease area can I claim rights to it because its from my wreck?

What if someone elses claim area happens to now enclose my missing chunk of ship? Whose is it? What happens? (Hello lawyers!)


<<Sorry if this is an easy no brainer question for you pro's, a short consise answer (if there is one) will suffice>>

Thanks

 

[Escudoman]

Very good point Canadian. This will all eventually wash out in the courts and the attorneys win. My father will just keep plugging away with finds like this he got the day before yesterday. 3 oz of beauty. Found in a tailing pile on our claims. No attorneys involved -------------------no disputes. All his and no problems.
Gerrison

 

[jeff of pa]

Very good point Canadian. This will all eventually wash out in the courts and the attorneys win. My father will just keep plugging away with finds like this he got the day before yesterday. 3 oz of beauty. Found in a tailing pile on our claims. No attorneys involved -------------------no disputes. All his and no problems.
Gerrison

Gerrison
That Piece of gold is like a Beautiful Naked woman
walking into the Middle of a Bar fight

Gorgeous

 

[keywesttdiver]

Its too bad grubby will have to forfeit that nugget and all the claims he owns with wyatt yager to the courts for restituon of the ana theft he pled guilty too. The court was notified yesterday of the joint-ownership of the claims.

 

[keywesttdiver]

Trout.........to answer your question. the Federal Maritime court gives you a certain area in your admiralty claim. The Emerald group was given alittle less that 100 square miles.. that belongs to them. if you find someone elses ship in that area it is too bad for them. it belongs to you. you may go to court to extend your area if you find that your scatter-trail extends beyond it. you must show the court treasure/artifacts to proove it. hope in a nut-shell that answers your questions.Happy hunting!

 

[Escudoman]

To bad Key West does not know the Federal mining laws. and his maritime attorneys do not know federal mining laws. Grubby is the prime holder of these claims. Wyatt was a sub owner. Worst that can happen is Wyatt will be removed. lol Maybe your vindictive motives should come into play here sir. Oh here's another that my dad found last month. 100.7 gramer, another three ouncer. Good try guys. Dad owns the claims as the primary. LOL Jealousy is a green eyed monster. Fact that they do not know is my father has owned these claims for over 10 years and added Wyatt just a few short years ago. To bad boys, you'll have to find another way to get to Grubby. He'll think of you as he runs a nozzle on a 8 in dredge in Sierra leone.
Gerrison.

 

[saltydog1733]

It was always my opinion (and that of many others) that Seafarer Exploration out of Tampa were the a$$_clowns of the treasure salvage industry. JTR Enterprises seems intent on replacing them at the top spot.