Flat Button backmark.. "SuperFine Quality"

[HutSiteDigger]

Dug a flat button awhile back (maybe 2 years ago) around an old 1850 house that burnt down before the civil war, I can't understand the back-mark on this one flat it says "Superfine quality" and not "Superior Quality" which are on some civil war buttons... Thanks guys and best of hunting to everyone!

Also they say the word "fine" was first started being used in 1843.. But to be honest i'd rather dig a flat button than a eagle button, i really like digging flats though there only worth $3-$10 a pop normally but everytime I dig a flat I just feel like im back in Colonial times But i am not really a expert on Back-Marks so thanks for any answers.

ahhh my photo close up didnt come out good, guess i need to break out the digital and not my phone camera

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

On January 17th you sent me a TN Private Message asking for info about your flatbutton with the "Superfine" backmark. I wrote you a lengthy reply, telling about the history of flatbuttons in Britain and America, and about the British "Quality-rating" backmarks on flatbuttons. Did you not receive it?

 

[HutSiteDigger]

No sir... I think there may be a bug on the PMs (at least with me) another member was trying to send me a message after I responded to him and never got it, finally he asked me in a post if I got it, that was the only way i knew he responded back to me, but I have checked my inbox folder 10x now and have yet too see it, please do-resend or post it in here. Thanks so much CannonBguy!!

 

[nsdq]

how big is that sucker ?

 

[HutSiteDigger]

You mean the button or the message CannonBguy was gonna send? The button is the exact same size as a nickel.

 

[HutSiteDigger]

If Cannon sent me a reply I do not know why It is not in my PM. Maybe since I am not paid member you can only send me certain length message? no idea.

 

[Tnmountains]

If Cannon sent me a reply I do not know why It is not in my PM. Maybe since I am not paid member you can only send me certain length message? no idea.

No it should have come through But make sure you have not exceded your limit on mail and if so clean out that mail box,lol. He will have it in his sent folder.

 

[nsdq]

size of button good sir

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

HutSiteDigger, there does seem to be a problem in the PM system. I'm amazed to discover there's no copy of the PM that I sent to you in my Sent folder. Very frustrating. I spent at least 30 minutes researching and typing the detailed info. I'm sure I clicked "Send" after all that work.

Here's a shorter version of the PM.

The majority of the "backmarked" 1-piece BRASS flatbuttons found in America were made in Britain and imported here for use on civilian clothing. They were imported because the young American button-making industry could not yet supply nearly enough to satisfy the vast demand for metal buttons. American industry finally became capable of doing so around 1830, with the result that imports of British-made ones dropped drastically after that.

Your photo of your button's back is too out-of-focus for me to see whether the backmark's lettering is done in raised lettering or indented lettering. If it is indented, your dug-in-America brass 1-piece flatbutton dates from about 1810 to the latter-1830s. If it has raised lettering, it can date from 10 to 15 years earlier.

About your button's "Superfine Quality" backmark:
The British button-making industry developed a "quality-rating" system for the brass buttons and the plating on them. From lowest to highest, it ran something like:
standard
extra
fine
superior
superfine.
The problem was, the ratings-standards soon became lax, and manufacturers put whatever impressive-sounding rating they wanted on their buttons. The result was a plethora of confusing descriptions, such as "Rich Gilt" and Treble Superfine."

I should mention that the American button-making industry initially copied the Mother Country's quality-rating system and terminology. That often makes it difficult to tell a British-made flatbutton from an American-made one. That being said, there are some reliable clues, such as the presence of a British crown (or an American eagle) in the backmark, a city-name such as London, or the British spelling of the word "color" as "colour."

 

[HutSiteDigger]

Thanks so much CannonBall It's good anyhow for you to post it in this forum so if someone else needs to research and hits this page they can get the right answer! You sure are a button master and hope too be able to ask you more in the future.

 

[Rogue Relic Hunter]

HutSiteDigger, there does seem to be a problem in the PM system. I'm amazed to discover there's no copy of the PM that I sent to you in my Sent folder. Very frustrating. I spent at least 30 minutes researching and typing the detailed info. I'm sure I clicked "Send" after all that work.

Here's a shorter version of the PM.

The majority of the "backmarked" 1-piece BRASS flatbuttons found in America were made in Britain and imported here for use on civilian clothing. They were imported because the young American button-making industry could not yet supply nearly enough to satisfy the vast demand for metal buttons. American industry finally became capable of doing so around 1830, with the result that imports of British-made ones dropped drastically after that.

Your photo of your button's back is too out-of-focus for me to see whether the backmark's lettering is done in raised lettering or indented lettering. If it is indented, your dug-in-America brass 1-piece flatbutton dates from about 1810 to the latter-1830s. If it has raised lettering, it can date from 10 to 15 years earlier.

About your button's "Superfine Quality" backmark:
The British button-making industry developed a "quality-rating" system for the brass buttons and the plating on them. From lowest to highest, it ran something like:
standard
extra
fine
superior
superfine.
The problem was, the ratings-standards soon became lax, and manufacturers put whatever impressive-sounding rating they wanted on their buttons. The result was a plethora of confusing descriptions, such as "Rich Gilt" and Treble Superfine."

I should mention that the American button-making industry initially copied the Mother Country's quality-rating system and terminology. That often makes it difficult to tell a British-made flatbutton from an American-made one. That being said, there are some reliable clues, such as the presence of a British crown (or an American eagle) in the backmark, a city-name such as London, or the British spelling of the word "color" as "colour."

4 years later and i found this post very helpful with some buttons i found lately. very detailed and helpful information.

 

[Rogue Relic Hunter]

HutSiteDigger, there does seem to be a problem in the PM system. I'm amazed to discover there's no copy of the PM that I sent to you in my Sent folder. Very frustrating. I spent at least 30 minutes researching and typing the detailed info. I'm sure I clicked "Send" after all that work.

Here's a shorter version of the PM.

The majority of the "backmarked" 1-piece BRASS flatbuttons found in America were made in Britain and imported here for use on civilian clothing. They were imported because the young American button-making industry could not yet supply nearly enough to satisfy the vast demand for metal buttons. American industry finally became capable of doing so around 1830, with the result that imports of British-made ones dropped drastically after that.

Your photo of your button's back is too out-of-focus for me to see whether the backmark's lettering is done in raised lettering or indented lettering. If it is indented, your dug-in-America brass 1-piece flatbutton dates from about 1810 to the latter-1830s. If it has raised lettering, it can date from 10 to 15 years earlier.

About your button's "Superfine Quality" backmark:
The British button-making industry developed a "quality-rating" system for the brass buttons and the plating on them. From lowest to highest, it ran something like:
standard
extra
fine
superior
superfine.
The problem was, the ratings-standards soon became lax, and manufacturers put whatever impressive-sounding rating they wanted on their buttons. The result was a plethora of confusing descriptions, such as "Rich Gilt" and Treble Superfine."

I should mention that the American button-making industry initially copied the Mother Country's quality-rating system and terminology. That often makes it difficult to tell a British-made flatbutton from an American-made one. That being said, there are some reliable clues, such as the presence of a British crown (or an American eagle) in the backmark, a city-name such as London, or the British spelling of the word "color" as "colour."

you should save your replies in a microsoft word file or files, this one labeled buttons. lots of work, why not save it for future use or to make a small book. great stuff.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Thanks for the Positive feedback, Scott. I'd already thought about your suggestion. The problem with turning my educational/informational reply-posts into a book is that they ARE replies, written in response to a photo or several photos, which show the object I'm talking about... and I do not own the Copyright for those photos. Believe me as a past book-author, violation of Copyright is a very big expensive thing in the Publishing world. My text is almost useless when you can't see the object I'm talking about.

But, as I mention here in the What Is It? forum occasionally, TreasureNet retains all of our posts and the photos with them. Just click on somebody's posting-name and then click "View/Find Posts." About 3,335 of mine are viewable (including the object's photos), going back to March 2013.

 

[Rogue Relic Hunter]

Thanks for the Positive feedback, Scott. I'd already thought about your suggestion. The problem with turning my educational/informational reply-posts into a book is that they ARE replies, written in response to a photo or several photos, which show the object I'm talking about... and I do not own the Copyright for those photos. Believe me as a past book-author, violation of Copyright is a very big expensive thing in the Publishing world. My text is almost useless when you can't see the object I'm talking about.

But, as I mention here in the What Is It? forum occasionally, TreasureNet retains all of our posts and the photos with them. Just click on somebody's posting-name and then click "View/Find Posts." About 3,335 of mine are viewable (including the object's photos), going back to March 2013.

i understand. as an academic i am in several books myself and dont get a nickle for it. i saved your button post under a new directory i made for metal detecting information and named the file, buttons. i may go back through and get some of your other information and do the same, just for my own future reference purposes. great thing about this hobby is we are able to learn about things most people never think about, like buttons. i have the "mega red" coin book and read it all the time. this way, when i dig an old coin, i have an idea about what i am looking at right away. a greenhorn friend was with me the other day when i dug a indian head penny with no date visible, he said, how old do you think itis? i said, i know it is from 1859 to 1909. he said, how do you know that? i replied, every relic hunter knows that. hahahah

thanks for taking the time to make the detailed posts you do. it's one of the aspects that makes this site priceless!

 

[callicles]

I can certainly see how TCBG would have difficulty creating a book out of his posts here, particularly as it relates to buttons because there is such a variety and involves too much detail without having pictures available. By the way, if this site owns all our posts, do they also own the pictures? Anyway, even without many pictures, I think he could do such in relation to his ACW artillery posts. It would require some pictures, but not as many as might be expected. Although he has published an artillery book (the best out there in my opinion), he could publish one that is a bit different - relying largely upon his posts here. I could even imagine a “quick reference book.” For instance, I could imagine someone finding a Civil War Bormann fuse. They look up Bormann fuse in his index. In his index is “Bormann Fuse:” Generally....pg—; Ways to distinguish between US and CS...pg— ; Abandonment of... pg- ;Replacement fuses...pg.-. Etc, etc. It could simply be an indexing of all his posts. It would not necessarily have to be picture sensitive. I mean, i’d Buy it. It’s just too much great information, with so much value, stored randomly on this site by him. But the good news it is there for us. When I was sick once, I spent half the day going through his posts from over the years. It was incredible!!!

 

[Bodkin]

TheCannonballGuy, thank you! I just found a button at low tide here in Maine (the only place not frozen and under snow right now) that has " Superfine*Strong*London" on the back. I had no idea where to turn for an approx date or any other info. Found another one a while back that has "..... Rich* London". Can't make out some of it. I'll assume it's from around the same date which is all I was really after. Very cool. Thank you again for the info you put out there.

 

[lieutenant755]

Thank you for this information, found it tremendously helpful! I found a flat button today with the shank broke and no visible engravings on the front. The backmark reads “SUPERFINE*STANDARD*” I found here in central Ohio. Do you have any ideas or information you may have? It’s indented engraving.

 

[ticndig]

you may want to start a new thread with pics in the what is it forum . this thread is 8 yrs old.