Fluorite Frog

[1grasshopper]

[h=2]Fluorite Frog[/h]

Hello Everyone,

First time posting, I bought this fluorspar frog effigy from a friend 20 years ago. It was found on the bank of the Ohio River. I have been an artifact hunter for 30 years but have never seen one like it, just decided to post to see if I could get any information on it.​

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[quito]

Hmmm!? That was an awful lot of work to make half of a frog. It would be nice to see the side that's missing. I am wondering if it is broken.

You don't suppose it could be natural do you?

 

[unclemac]

i don't know if it is NA artifact or not but i do know that EBAY sells them for about 5 bucks...

Excellent Old Chinese Carved Stone Fluorite Figurine Frog 3" Wide | eBay

 

[Mark Todd]

Hi grasshopper, nice effigy. Looks like it's 2/3's hole. I'd be tickled to death to just have 1/3rd. Could you take a picture of the fractured side and the bottom? I'm in central IL, how about you?
I can't tell you anything about your piece but as an "aside"; I have an old History of Illinois (1879). In it the first settlers spoke about the "bullfrogs on the ILLINOIS River as big as your head"! Anyway, again- nice!

 

[Mark Todd]

I meant to ask if you could put something beside it to demonstrate its size, like a coin, or measurements, thanks.

 

[joshuaream]

Very cool little artifact. Fluorite and Fluorspar relics are a diagnostic mound builder artifact from a very small area of Indiana, Kentucky and Illinois. (If you draw a triangle from Angel Mounds in IN, down to Tolu Mound in KY, over to Cahokia in IL you cover pretty much the entire area where they are found.) Go outside of that area and most people won't even recognize them. In that area, you'll see some amazing collections and guys who specialize in the material.

Crystals of natural fluorite are found in the same area, and are soft enough to carve. Lots of little beads, owls, animals, ear plugs, etc. have been found. There are some larger pieces as well, this article by Pete Bostrom covers some of them.

PAGE 1 THE TOLU FLUORITE STATUE

I haven't seen a frog before, but they made some frog effigy pottery so maybe. I know of several artifacts and beads that have been purchased as junk or fakes because the finders didn't think they were ancient relics. Patina looks right on yours, and the crystals exhibit cleavage (they break) on a flat plane.

 

[1grasshopper]

Quito, I wish the frog was complete, but unfortunately this the way it was when found on river bank. This artifact was made by someone, definitely not natural.

 

[1grasshopper]

Thanks Mark, I will take another pic tomorrow for size reference. I'm from southeast IL. right on KY. borderline.

 

[1grasshopper]

joshuaream, Thank you very much for this info. I live directly across the river from Tolu,Ky on the IL side. This piece was found in an area where several points, artifacts have been found. If you look close, you can see the green river algea remaining on the frog. A bead was also found with this piece. A friend of mine found an fluoride owl a few years back, but I have never seen a frog made from fluorspar so I decided to post to see if I could learn something.

 

[Tnmountains]

I am glad after reading Jousha'a reply I did not post the jade one in my china cabinet I took a picture of!!

 

[joshuaream]

joshuaream, Thank you very much for this info. I live directly across the river from Tolu,Ky on the IL side. This piece was found in an area where several points, artifacts have been found. If you look close, you can see the green river algea remaining on the frog. A bead was also found with this piece. A friend of mine found an fluoride owl a few years back, but I have never seen a frog made from fluorspar so I decided to post to see if I could learn something.

Hardin County Illinois and Tolu, KY seem to be the hot spot, it was traded to the larger centers at Cahokia, Angel Mounds and Kincaid in Illinois. The occasional piece made it up the Ohio to the Ft. Ancient in Mississippian times, and the Hopewell moved it around a bit. You should take it to a show in the area, there's usually a couple of guys with a frame or two of the material and they could tell you a lot more about.

The green could be algae, but many of the purple fluorite crystals have a greenish tinge on one end. There are also yellow as well as pure green specimens. Some of the replicas I've seen, were made out of some large perfectly purple crystals that come from mines. (One guy was making discoidals out of them for years.)

You should put it under a UV black light, and watch what happens. If it's freshly made, it'll glow and probably hold a glow for a while after the light is removed. Older specimens that have been exposed to natural UV light over the years in a field will change color, but won't hold a glow. It's not a perfect authenticity test because some specimens of flourite won't glow, but I know some guys who use it. Fluorescent lighting was named after the mineral; apply the right kind of energy and you can get it to produce light.

The Aztecs down in Central Mexico used it a lot, and evidence shows that they heated it up which would cause it glow for quite some time. Some areas produce a variety known as Chlorophane that will glow at low temps (body heat, warm water, etc.) Other varieties, when freshly worked, if left out in the sun on a very bright day would glow slightly if taken in to a dark room (cave, tent, etc.) It would be subtle, but probably seemed magical to ancient people.

Not sure if the natives in your area knew about the properties, but my guess is it sometimes happened and they were impressed.

 

[yakker]

That's pretty amazing-- and really good info from Joshuaream! One of those 'learn something new every day' moments, for sure (for which I'm very grateful!) Would love to see the owl- if it's still possible. And more pics of your little croaker. Thanks so much for posting and bring up this very interesting topic. Yakker

 

[SoIll]

Here's a bead in the form of a head from a little south of you.

 

[SoIll]

Can we see some of your other artifacts? what is the other piece of flourite next to his butt in the second pic?

 

[yakker]

Here's a bead in the form of a head from a little south of you.

...bead in the form of a head... I'm trying, but I just can't see it. And if 'bead' no hole? I want to give a thumbs up but can't do it till I can see...

 

[monsterrack]

A super fine artifact and some great info.

 

[1grasshopper]

Here are a few more pics of broken side and under light. The broken bead was found with the frog.

 

[1grasshopper]

Hardin County Illinois and Tolu, KY seem to be the hot spot, it was traded to the larger centers at Cahokia, Angel Mounds and Kincaid in Illinois. The occasional piece made it up the Ohio to the Ft. Ancient in Mississippian times, and the Hopewell moved it around a bit. You should take it to a show in the area, there's usually a couple of guys with a frame or two of the material and they could tell you a lot more about.

The green could be algae, but many of the purple fluorite crystals have a greenish tinge on one end. There are also yellow as well as pure green specimens. Some of the replicas I've seen, were made out of some large perfectly purple crystals that come from mines. (One guy was making discoidals out of them for years.)

You should put it under a UV black light, and watch what happens. If it's freshly made, it'll glow and probably hold a glow for a while after the light is removed. Older specimens that have been exposed to natural UV light over the years in a field will change color, but won't hold a glow. It's not a perfect authenticity test because some specimens of flourite won't glow, but I know some guys who use it. Fluorescent lighting was named after the mineral; apply the right kind of energy and you can get it to produce light.

The Aztecs down in Central Mexico used it a lot, and evidence shows that they heated it up which would cause it glow for quite some time. Some areas produce a variety known as Chlorophane that will glow at low temps (body heat, warm water, etc.) Other varieties, when freshly worked, if left out in the sun on a very bright day would glow slightly if taken in to a dark room (cave, tent, etc.) It would be subtle, but probably seemed magical to ancient people.

Not sure if the natives in your area knew about the properties, but my guess is it sometimes happened and they were impressed.

joshuaream, I am fortunate to live in an artifact hotspot. I have found pieces from the Mississippian to the Paleo era. However, getting permission to hunt has been hard over the last few years. I grew up mining fluorspar until the market shifted to Mexico because of the cheaper prices. I am impressed with your knowledge of fluorspar and have learned from your post. thanks

 

[bone2stone]

Amazing is the only adjective I can fathom.
Thank you for bringing this here.
It deserves banner recognition.

Jess B.

 

[Tnmountains]

Amazing is the only adjective I can fathom.
Thank you for bringing this here.
It deserves banner recognition.

Jess B.

It does but being his first post it is ineligible for a banner. But that does not make it a banner worthy find. Very nice.