Folks, Ethics.......

[Rebel - KGC]

Folks,

Since this has come up on various threads....thought I'd throw this one out there and see where it leads.

Most professions have some sort of code of ethics or other which they have to follow...comes with the territory.

Myself spending my career in Transportation Marketing (railway specifically).....I had mine to live up to....they called it the blue book which we had to follow....we had to follow the laws of both Canada and the US as it applied to our industry among other things....and we signed it and followed it... effectively if we didn't it was grounds for dismissal....

At some point or other I made a quote to a potential new customer at the request of one of the sales reps.....I get a call from the GM insisting I retract the quote.....due to a conflict with a current wholesale customer we had......this would have been considered collusion and legally wrong.....

So here I am between a rock and a hard place.....go ahead and retract the quote...thus breaking the law.....or refuse to retract the quote and commit career suicide so to speak....

My response the quote stands for the 45 day period.....you want to retract it be my guest....me I'm standing firm.

He backed down and moved on to another position elsewhere in the company....from my experience in the industry.....95% of my confreres played by the rules....and maybe 5% would
play loose and easy with the ethics....

What's your experience ethics wise in your careers past or present....let's see where this goes.

Regards + HH

Bill

MY experience at MAX Security Prison in Virginia was this: Feds & Virgina Governor, & "Commiss" - DOC emphasized TX (Treatment Programs for inmates in Prisons)... BUT! Our first Warden was Viet Nam Vet & Pro-Security; will NEVER forget the "pic" of him standing at front door of our Prison, with a Baton in his hands. I was Corrections Counselor, case-load of 98; 6 TX Programs. 2 years later, NEW Warden; I was Treatment Programs Supervisor, expanded the 6 TX Programs to 21... working VERY closely with Va. Dept. of Correctional Education (also in the "Max Prison"). ETHICS wise, I went against DOC policy of "Christians only" Religious Programing; Operations Officer came to me & advised me that FEDS wanted Religious Programing for NON-Christian inmates... SO!

 

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[Rebel - KGC]

(Had to break this into two parts); With a Minor in Religion, being INTERFAITH, I was able to comply. DOC "Downtown" had NOTHING to guide me; so, Operations Officer at our MAX Prison & I were able to advise our Warden as to the VARIOUS non-Christian Religions, SPECIAL diets requirements... the "WHOLE nine yards". OUR MAX prison became the ONLY MAX Prison in Virginia for such. Muslims, Jews, Native Americans... Unfortunately, we got some real SCUMBAGS transferred to our MAX Prison. Funny incident... because I was grandson of POWERFUL King Chief & his daughter, "The Princess", Native Americans invited me into their CIRCLE - DRUMS. I smudged with them and Security Guards told Watch Commander, I was smoking POT with the "Injuns". A "not so funny" incident is when I confronted Nation of Islam leaders that had just been transferred in; THEY said NOI rules superseded our DOC rules; told 'em NOPE! (I am white); I was Top Amin. on Duty (Warden). Told Watch Commander to get Warden to transfer THOSE NOI leaders out; they were... the NEXT day. I was using SITUATIONAL ETHICS, learned in my Religion class at JMU.

 

[pat-tekker-cat]

ethics are what you do when no one is looking.

Best way I have heard it put yet! Thank you for that davest.
RJC, you surprise me a little, such eye for an eye. I'm not really one to go "out of my way" to screw someone over for payback.
I did get to serve revenge "cold" one time, on someone that more than deserved it. It was still a hollow unfulfilled feeling. I was then made no better, than the one that had originally wronged me (oh, but I got even in a big big way, and they never saw it coming, or from where or who it came from).

Perhaps ethics, like art, is subjective.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Best way I have heard it put yet! Thank you for that davest.
RJC, you surprise me a little, such eye for an eye. I'm not really one to go "out of my way" to screw someone over for payback.
I did get to serve revenge "cold" one time, on someone that more than deserved it. It was still a hollow unfulfilled feeling. I was then made no better, than the one that had originally wronged me (oh, but I got even in a big big way, and they never saw it coming, or from where or who it came from).

Perhaps ethics, like art, is subjective.

VERY subjective...

 

[Red James Cash]

RJC, you surprise me a little, such eye for an eye.

If you knew where I was coming from you would understand a little better Pat.I dont bother anybody,I mind my own business,I expect the same in return.I dont screw people over,I expect the same in return.If I trust somebody and they turn around and screw me well to me thats the same as dropping the gloves.I'll just say I learned not to turn the other cheek.Been there done that.

 

[pat-tekker-cat]

If you knew where I was coming from you would understand a little better Pat.I dont bother anybody,I mind my own business,I expect the same in return.I dont screw people over,I expect the same in return.If I trust somebody and they turn around and screw me well to me thats the same as dropping the gloves.I'll just say I learned not to turn the other cheek.Been there done that.

True, all that, never having walked in your shoes.
I got no problem with the forgiveness thing, I just don't forget. Whats the saying, screw me once, shame on you. Screw me twice, shame on me! Most people, left to their own vices, can and will screw themselves over far worse, than any plan I could hatch!

 

[dieselram94]

I certainly hope what goes around comes around......seems some people never get whats due them.....

 

[Red James Cash]

I certainly hope what goes around comes around......seems some people never get whats due them.....

Thats why you have to push it along every once and a while.

 

[dieselram94]

With some if I push it along anymore, I might just get in trouble......

 

[hursst]

It depends on the situation, but I've found that turning the other cheek usually results in the validation and encouragement of future bad behavior on the party of which you are turning the other cheek. Turning the other cheek can be a good method of consistently being taken advantage of.

 

[Crispin]

It depends on the situation, but I've found that turning the other cheek usually results in the validation and encouragement of future bad behavior on the party of which you are turning the other cheek. Turning the other cheek can be a good method of consistently being taken advantage of.

In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is King.

 

[dieselram94]

It depends on the situation, but I've found that turning the other cheek usually results in the validation and encouragement of future bad behavior on the party of which you are turning the other cheek. Turning the other cheek can be a good method of consistently being taken advantage of.

That pretty much sums it up......problem is the law usually gets in the way....

 

[dieselram94]

In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is King.

Did Obama lose an eye? LOL!

 

[Crispin]

Did Obama lose an eye? LOL!

If he did then that would mean everybody else is blind. Are admitting that you are blind?

 

[dieselram94]

If he did then that would mean everybody else is blind. Are admitting that you are blind?

Unfortunately Crispin, I think most are blind...not I though....

 

[Terry Soloman]

How many of us have waived, or changed our "ethics," when it suited us in life? I wish I could live my life without judging my fellow man, or doing what's right EVERY time but, alas, I am not Jesus, Buddha, or Mohamed.

I grew up in Sunday school, knowing I would certainly go to Hell if I committed one of the deadly sins. Yet, I willingly joined the Army and shot back when I was shot at. I still get mad when some “clueless” person has 27-items in the 12-item only express checkout line, yet I have “snuck in” with 14 myself.

I could tell you all about some of my heroic deeds, and how proud I was to do the right thing - or help another person or animal in dire need, but then I would have to write another 12,000 words describing all the times I was selfish, lied, or just didn’t care. We have all been around a while and most of us have figured out that you make your own breaks, create your own karma. What goes around DOES come back around. We ALL pay the piper.

Live well, and be as good a person as you can be. Never let anyone take advantage of you, and try not to take advantage of others. I just try and keep my stack of white rocks, higher than my stack of black rocks..

 

[hvacker]

Many are taught that God will even things out or that to forgive is divine or worse the idea of poetic justice and somehow your enemies will get theirs. I've experienced little of divine justice. It's an abstraction, a possibility only achievable by faith and that's the substance of things Hoped for.
Sometimes I wonder if it's worse in terms of living with yourself to deny yourself some revenge. Don't many people have thoughts about events in the past where they felt very justified to seek revenge. Even the word "justified" points to justice.
Going back to God (Gods). Doling out justice on your behalf denies the teachings that YOUR righteousness is as filthy rags. I read that as I'm not worthy of justice anyway as I'm no different from my enemy. So why not revenge?
I believe often it's because revenge takes courage and waiting for lighting to strike down your enemies is easier.
Some live in abstractions and others in reality.
I understand, on some level, the spiritual concept of "Love your enemies" But my world doesn't.

 

[Crispin]

The rewards of an evil lifestyle are the lifestyle themselves. Most of these people without morals, ethics, or scruples are miserable. They have no loyalty to others and others have no loyalty to them. They do not love others and others do not love them. They hold nothing sacred and nothing is sacred to them. I have seen a lot of wicked men that have confessed wicked things to me. Believe me, their lives are their own reward. There is nothing any of us could do or wish on them that is worse then what they live with on a daily basis.

In contrast, ethical and moral men are rewarded as well. They are loyal to others and others are loyal to them. They love others and others love them. They hold many things sacred and much is sacred to them. They die around friends and family. They die happy and at peace.

We all die...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

How many of us have waived, or changed our "ethics," when it suited us in life? I wish I could live my life without judging my fellow man, or doing what's right EVERY time but, alas, I am not Jesus, Buddha, or Mohamed.

I grew up in Sunday school, knowing I would certainly go to Hell if I committed one of the deadly sins. Yet, I willingly joined the Army and shot back when I was shot at. I still get mad when some “clueless” person has 27-items in the 12-item only express checkout line, yet I have “snuck in” with 14 myself.

I could tell you all about some of my heroic deeds, and how proud I was to do the right thing - or help another person or animal in dire need, but then I would have to write another 12,000 words describing all the times I was selfish, lied, or just didn’t care. We have all been around a while and most of us have figured out that you make your own breaks, create your own karma. What goes around DOES come back around. We ALL pay the piper.

Live well, and be as good a person as you can be. Never let anyone take advantage of you, and try not to take advantage of others. I just try and keep my stack of white rocks, higher than my stack of black rocks..

What I meant by "SITUATION-SPECIFIC"; "google" Situational Ethics.

 

[hvacker]

The rewards of an evil lifestyle are the lifestyle themselves. Most of these people without morals, ethics, or scruples are miserable. They have no loyalty to others and others have no loyalty to them. They do not love others and others do not love them. They hold nothing sacred and nothing is sacred to them. I have seen a lot of wicked men that have confessed wicked things to me. Believe me, their lives are their own reward. There is nothing any of us could do or wish on them that is worse then what they live with on a daily basis.

In contrast, ethical and moral men are rewarded as well. They are loyal to others and others are loyal to them. They love others and others love them. They hold many things sacred and much is sacred to them. They die around friends and family. They die happy and at peace.

We all die...

What remains true is the rain falls on the wicked and the righteous. The idealized world you describe isn't consistent with my experience. I've known wicked people that show no guilt or remorse. Sociopaths. Others that have done little wrong that indulge in their imperfection.
What I was exploring was the person that was wronged and the effect of living a life where they denied themselves their revenge.Often the system denies them too. More concern about the victim then the perp.
If the law allowed a victim their revenge would it be healthier than living without the perp being punished? The closest allowed now is to witness an execution in some states. What if the victim could pull the trigger?