From the Grave?

[mastereagle22]

Found these at a local park. The park is within 1/8 of a mile from a Cemetery. I think it is some type of funerary item. The first piece is VERY heavy and the pictures are the front and back of that item. The third picture shows the other item. It is light. I found the fist item 6.5 inches down (measured) and the second item was found at around 4 inches. Any one have any clue?

 

[mastereagle22]

the one with the post has a odd "ring" on the base part ---is there any threading in the ring or is it smooth? if smooth might it have be used to tie down something? Ivan

Actually it looks more like a screw hole to me where this may have been screwed onto a surface. No threads just smooth.

 

[Montana Jim]

At best - Part of fencing or molding for a larger item. Wagon part? Tractor part?

Might be any number of discarded pieces of house, equipment or farm stuff... Whilst interesting, so are broken pieces of iron stoves and heaters with decorative surfaces.

 

[Harry_Morant]

It reminds me of an Egyptian sarcophagus and columns. When Tuts tomb was found in 1922 there was quite an Egyptian craze in the western world. Perhaps its a early 20th century souvenir or childs toy meant to represent an Egyptian tomb.

 

[maverick4440]

I'm not sure what those are but it reminds me of a find I made about 1978.
I was detecting an old farm in northern Michigan (UP) and found a solid silver plaque about 8 inches long by 4 inches wide and in a sort of fancy sideways hour glass shape. It had the word "Father" on it.
I had no clue what it was.
I had it for quite a few years and showed it to lots of people and no one had any idea what it was, It was just a nice silver plaque.
One day I showed it to an antique dealer in Colorado who had no idea what it was either but another customer who was about 80 years old said "It's a plate from a fathers casket".
I asked how he knew that and he said that he was a retired funeral director and that he had seen hundreds of them over the years and they were commonly attached to the lids of caskets from the late 1800's through the 1930's.
He said he had seen enough of them to be 100% posotive that's what it was.
I looked it up in some library book (Before internet) and saw the exact plate in a photo of an old casket.
They made them that said "Father, Mother, Daughter and Son"
I don't know why it was in the ground on an old farm in northern Michigan unless I unwittingly stumbled on an old family plot but I sold it for scrap silver as I lived in Colorado and couldn't return it to where I found it.
It kind of bothered me having it after I found out what it was though.

 

[ivan salis]

you said it old family plot---- the wooden coffins rot--- the flesh rots---the silver plate being metal does not rot---sadly because of erosion and shallow burying in past ---graves sometimes pop up on old small "family type farms and such--- since you knew where it came from you should have returned it from wence it came in my veiw ---made a "special effort" if you get my drift---bad mojo messing wit da dead folks stuff---Ivan

 

[maverick4440]

you said it old family plot---- the wooden coffins rot--- the flesh rots---the silver plate being metal does not rot---sadly because of erosion and shallow burying in past ---graves sometimes pop up on old small "family type farms and such--- since you knew where it came from you should have returned it from wence it came in my veiw ---made a "special effort" if you get my drift---bad mojo messing wit da dead folks stuff---Ivan

Considering I was almost 2000 miles away and it was 22 years later when I found out what it was from an abandodned farm that belonged to a friend of mine who himself had since passed away I really had no way of returning it.
Had I known what it was I would have never kept it in the first place.
I don't know anyone in yhe Upper Penninsula anymore and haven't been in Michigan in 27 years.
Returning it from whence it came to an unmarked grave that I wouldn't even be sure I could have found again would have been a financially impossible expedition.

 

[ivan salis]

I understand ---too bad their was no way to return it. I quite sure you would have otherwise.

 

[Old Dog]

I am a treasure hunter by nature, But I am a woodworker by trade. My favorite thing to do is to research any and all means by which my trade can be made better. Sometimes it means taking an antique apart and reassembling it. The only way to converse with a woodworker who no longer lives.
I can recognise coffin hardware pretty easily.
What you have here is a lid handle, and a side or pollbearers handle.

Old Dog

 

[mastereagle22]

I am a treasure hunter by nature, But I am a woodworker by trade. My favorite thing to do is to research any and all means by which my trade can be made better. Sometimes it means taking an antique apart and reassembling it. The only way to converse with a woodworker who no longer lives.
I can recognise coffin hardware pretty easily.
What you have here is a lid handle, and a side or pollbearers handle.

Old Dog

If that is the case what do I do with the two pieces? The people running the cemetery do not want them and they absolutely state that the pieces belong to nothing in their ground. I have asked an 80 y/o retired mortician/funeral director and he said he had not seen anything like the two pieces. I really don't want to keep them if they belonged on any thing funeral related but I don't want to just pitch them either. So what do you suggest??

 

[outraged]

I am a treasure hunter by nature, But I am a woodworker by trade. My favorite thing to do is to research any and all means by which my trade can be made better. Sometimes it means taking an antique apart and reassembling it. The only way to converse with a woodworker who no longer lives.
I can recognise coffin hardware pretty easily.
What you have here is a lid handle, and a side or pollbearers handle.

Old Dog

If that is the case what do I do with the two pieces? The people running the cemetery do not want them and they absolutely state that the pieces belong to nothing in their ground. I have asked an 80 y/o retired mortician/funeral director and he said he had not seen anything like the two pieces. I really don't want to keep them if they belonged on any thing funeral related but I don't want to just pitch them either. So what do you suggest??

Return them to where you found them and say a prayer.....

 

[ivan salis]

the answer of what to do is simple -- you "innocently" found these things---"innocently" you "took" them not knowing what they were --you attempted to find out and did "what" they where and sadly now you "know" what they are---the oiffical "powers that be" don't give a hoot about some mentally ill / or "broke down" person that died long ago---happily you do ---so just go and put it back where it came from---say a little I'm sorry prayer---maybe lay a flower or two for those sad forgotten souls that no one any longers cares for in the world of the living---of course now that you "know" that thats were they buried the "dead" of the workhouse / mental home or old farm don't dig that spot or very close by it----and don't "beat yourself up" over this it was a simple mistake ---like I said in my eariler post --once in awhile you run across such stuff----stop ---put it back and don't mess with it. --Ivan

 

[Old Dog]

MasterEagle,

First, stop beating youself up about it. Second, don't wait around, correct the problem at the earliest convenience. Return them to the site and just find a new place to swing your MD.

No condemnation from us , or threats of bad mojo, Just do the thing that makes you feel good about youself.

You are the one who has to look in the mirror.
We all understand about these kind of things.

My suggestion... For what it's worth.
Now you know where the plot is map it out.
Private samitarys are very small, Use a circular pattern and map the whole place . once you have the whole burial plot mapped you will be able to safely cover the rest of the grounds with no problem.

Old Dog

 

[mastereagle22]

MasterEagle,

First, stop beating youself up about it. Second, don't wait around, correct the problem at the earliest convenience. Return them to the site and just find a new place to swing your MD.

No condemnation from us , or threats of bad mojo, Just do the thing that makes you feel good about youself.

You are the one who has to look in the mirror.
We all understand about these kind of things.

My suggestion... For what it's worth.
Now you know where the plot is map it out.
Private samitarys are very small, Use a circular pattern and map the whole place . once you have the whole burial plot mapped you will be able to safely cover the rest of the grounds with no problem.

Old Dog

One last concern, how do I keep future detectorists from making the same mistake? This is public property in a park and I cannot make and leave a sign. So what can I do to help someone from making the same mistake that I have? Thank you all so much for your support. I can honestly say the MD community has really impressed me and that is just one other reason I love this hobby and why I am glad I took it up. Thanks for letting me be at least a little part of your group!

 

[lucky1777]

MasterEagle,

First, stop beating youself up about it. Second, don't wait around, correct the problem at the earliest convenience. Return them to the site and just find a new place to swing your MD.

No condemnation from us , or threats of bad mojo, Just do the thing that makes you feel good about youself.

You are the one who has to look in the mirror.
We all understand about these kind of things.

My suggestion... For what it's worth.
Now you know where the plot is map it out.
Private samitarys are very small, Use a circular pattern and map the whole place . once you have the whole burial plot mapped you will be able to safely cover the rest of the grounds with no problem.

Old Dog

One last concern, how do I keep future detectorists from making the same mistake? This is public property in a park and I cannot make and leave a sign. So what can I do to help someone from making the same mistake that I have? Thank you all so much for your support. I can honestly say the MD community has really impressed me and that is just one other reason I love this hobby and why I am glad I took it up. Thanks for letting me be at least a little part of your group!

What mistake You know for sure it is a grave No you just have peoples opinions and thats it, no proof of anything. Others said it looked like fence parts. If I were there I would hunt the place and not worry about any "bad mojo" or any other silly curse.

 

[Angelo]

What mistake You know for sure it is a grave No you just have peoples opinions and thats it, no proof of anything. Others said it looked like fence parts. If I were there I would hunt the place and not worry about any "bad mojo" or any other silly curse.

I agree. Let's see if we can identify it for sure and then make a decision.

Besides, where would we be in history if ancient excavations would of been ignored (with the exception of those who plundered for profit)? I believe that we find things for a reason especially when they are related to someones past.

What's the difference of finding a civil war belt buckle, rifle, bullets, etc. Who knows, perhaps, items such as those are found where a soldier died in battle.

Let's see if we can identify the items.

My opinion for what it's worth.

Tony

 

[Old Dog]

Very true, Work for positive ID on the items.

Some early furniture makers used odd hardware from just about anything to complete a piece.

The more I think about it a little more exploration couldn't hurt. If it turns out to be a family type burial plot map it out and notify your state historical society with your information. That would get at least a little bit of protection for the site.

Another thing to consider is that a grave outside the cemetery may not be more than an isolated incident. A criminal of any kind was usually not buried in a cemetery. but isolated away at a common crossroads or even in a wooded area away from a cemetery.

Listen to all the info you can get and look for some more on line and especially in your library. it may help a lot to look at aerial photos compared to current boundaries etc...
Lots of good things presented here by others.

Old Dog

 

[pepperpump]

I have to say that really resembles a babies coffin but it looks too small. My best bet is an urn. Either way, I get the creeps looking at it as well. I think you may want to get rid of it either way.
Pepperpump

 

[Old Dog]

One thing is for sure ...

Now that you have this ball rolling, Don't stop .

And for heavens sake don't kep us in suspense.

LOL let us all know how it turns out.
Do what you know is right and to heck withall of us armchairing wellwishers.

You will be just fine,
but please ...
Keep us filled in.

Old Dog

 

[mastereagle22]

One thing is for sure ...

Now that you have this ball rolling, Don't stop .

And for heavens sake don't kep us in suspense.

LOL let us all know how it turns out.
Do what you know is right and to heck withall of us armchairing wellwishers.

You will be just fine,
but please ...
Keep us filled in.

Old Dog

Ok so let me update you. I felt uncomfortable keeping the items so I went back to the park where I found them and started to dig a small hole and was planning on saying a short prayer and returning them to the ground for good measure. Along comes a city cop and tells me that if I bury anything on park property I will get a ticket for littering and have to go to court. $250 for the ticket $300 for the court costs! Now what? I talked to the person I know at the cemetery again and they are very adamant that this is not any of their stuff. I have known the man at the cemetery for over 15 years and know he would not lie to me about it. We looked at some old photos of the site that date back to the early 1920s. All that is in the area that I found these items in is a field. No house, no gate or fence, nothig.

If I am going to spend $550 I want to get a new detecor. And please don't tell me to go back when no one is watching because I don't think I am going to tempt fate in that way. So what now

 

[ivan salis]

bury it in the far end backyard and say a "I'M sorry" prayer.