George Washington Buttons

[1320]

How many GW buttons have made the banner the past few years? Certainly, everyone that has been found by a Tnet member has made banner. And why all of a sudden are they being found so frequently? I mean, we went years without seeing one, now it's like once a month...lol. More detectorists? Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to find one but I have to argue...just how rare are they? And really, why are "we" finding so many in such a short time frame?

 

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[Iron Patch]

They're a great find, but overrated in my opinion, and extremely overrated when you're talking about the ones usually posted in comparison to some great finds that basically have to be fought for to make the banner. I too would like to find one, but there's many other things I would rate as high and would be just as happy with.


And yes we do see a lot of GW buttons, but what we don't see is the really rare ones, so it would be a big mistake to classify them all the same.

 

[Bloodline]

I'm related to George Washington by way of Ann Pope.

 

[Muddyhandz]

I've been looking at this forum for 15 years now and have seen a steady flow of the more common GW buttons with some finding multiples at one site.
Pre-internet days you might see one in a magazine or hear about it through the community but that doesn't mean they weren't being found in numbers.
There just wasn't the exposure like the internet provides. Sure there's more hunters nowadays which would add to the volume of buttons being found.
As for the banner, many factors come into play with what makes it up there. It's a whole other kettle of fish.

There's more to rarity than meets the eye. I'll use trade tokens as an example. Out here, I know token collector #1 and #2.
Number 1 wrote the book and is the top buyer. Number 2 is a personal friend.
Say number 2 gets an R10 token (only one known according to the book) he now is the only one that knows that the token becomes an R9, so its in his best interest to stay quiet about it.
He then tells me that #1 actually has 4 of the same token but because he wrote the book, lists it as a R10. It's in everyone's interest to keep that token an R10 because it's worth more.
One time I was with my buddy (#2) out in the country and we went into an antique store and saw 40+ of the same bakery token for sale. The token was an R9 in the book and my buddy bought all of them.
Other than the antique dealer, me and my friend, everyone else still thinks that token is an R9 even though #2 just bought over 40 of them!
In case everyone is wondering why I'm blabbering about this, it's simply to show an example about rarity.
More importantly, it's to send a message about keeping things rare.
Some people don't understand the concept of supply and demand (scarcity) and sell it all in one shot.
Diamonds are by no means rare. Most of them are kept off the market to maintain scarcity and therefore a high value.
So with the GW buttons, WE know how many have been found thanks to forums but does the general public know?

Cheers,
Dave.

 

[1320]

I've been looking at this forum for 15 years now and have seen a steady flow of the more common GW buttons with some finding multiples at one site.
Pre-internet days you might see one in a magazine or hear about it through the community but that doesn't mean they weren't being found in numbers.
There just wasn't the exposure like the internet provides. Sure there's more hunters nowadays which would add to the volume of buttons being found.
As for the banner, many factors come into play with what makes it up there. It's a whole other kettle of fish.

There's more to rarity than meets the eye. I'll use trade tokens as an example. Out here, I know token collector #1 and #2.
Number 1 wrote the book and is the top buyer. Number 2 is a personal friend.
Say number 2 gets an R10 token (only one known according to the book) he now is the only one that knows that the token becomes an R9, so its in his best interest to stay quiet about it.
He then tells me that #1 actually has 4 of the same token but because he wrote the book, lists it as a R10. It's in everyone's interest to keep that token an R10 because it's worth more.
One time I was with my buddy (#2) out in the country and we went into an antique store and saw 40+ of the same bakery token for sale. The token was an R9 in the book and my buddy bought all of them.
Other than the antique dealer, me and my friend, everyone else still thinks that token is an R9 even though #2 just bought over 40 of them!
In case everyone is wondering why I'm blabbering about this, it's simply to show an example about rarity.
More importantly, it's to send a message about keeping things rare.
Take it from a fur trade guy who watched his entire market crash from some donkey in Michigan who flooded e-bay constantly.
Some people don't understand the concept of supply and demand (scarcity) and sell it all in one shot.
Diamonds are by no means rare. Most of them are keep off the market to maintain scarcity and therefore a high value.
So with the GW buttons, WE know how many have been found thanks to forums but does the general public know?

Cheers,
Dave.

Have to agree with you, perhaps it's the internet exposure coupled with more folks in the hobby to explain why we're seeing so many of late.

 

[1320]

They're a great find, but overrated in my opinion, and extremely overrated when you're talking about the ones usually posted in comparison to some great finds that basically have to be fought for to make the banner. I too would like to find one, but there's many other things I would rate as high and would be just as happy with.


And yes we do see a lot of GW buttons, but what we don't see is the really rare ones, so it would be a big mistake to classify them all the same.

Thanks to member empty_pockets for sharing this link: George Washington 1789 Inaugural Button
26 known varieties and 37 known sub-varieties and some aren't even inaugural buttons at all...wow....good info there.

 

[Iron Patch]

WE know how many have been found thanks to forums but does the general public know?

The people who count definitely know, and that's why the rarest would sell at a premium, the usual in decent dug condition would suffer because of the numbers, and dug and poor condition forget about it. The people who don't know would be the ones bidding on the latter two categories, and they're not typically the ones who will drop a lot of money. Most people reading this thread, and posting on the T-net in general could afford to buy a $1,000+ button if they really wanted one, but the reality is the people who actually do are few and far between.

 

[Iron Patch]

Thanks to member empty_pockets for sharing this link: George Washington 1789 Inaugural Button
26 known varieties and 37 known sub-varieties and some aren't even inaugural buttons at all...wow....good info there.

You can immediately erase the ones that aren't, as far as detecting is concerned, because with those context is everything. Then for the sub-varieties you have to be a pretty advanced collector to get into those, so probably not really much of a selling point unless the condition is killer and you have two higher end players fighting over it. So it's really the 26 that's the main number, and there definitely seems to be certain ones that are found over and over again. I have no doubt we'll see some rarer stuff show as there has to be some in the ground, and that will be quite a post when it happens. The worst thing about the whole deal is it won't be me finding it. I'm unfortunately among the large group on here that have the slim to none chance.... but I'll still not say never!

 

[Argentium]

This is an interesting thread ! (and perhaps overdue) - I too have wondered about the relative scarcity of GW Buttons compared with
Massachusetts Pine/Oak Tree coinage , and then there are coins that you would expect to see occasionally and you don't , such as
Seated Liberty Dollars - You see the other Seated denominations regularly - and you see the Morgan and Peace periodically -The Seated
Dollar is a "no show" (I've maybe ever seen one posted here ) . I also am mystified by the fact that you'll go for quite a long time without
seeing GW Buttons then you get a rash of them dug up over a year or two . I remember a year or more ago - there were an amazing number
of the Massachusetts Pine/Oak tree coins found - they seem to have fallen off now . There likely are no answers here -but these kinds
of questions are entertaining .

 

[1320]

This is an interesting thread ! (and perhaps overdue) - I too have wondered about the relative scarcity of GW Buttons compared with
Massachusetts Pine/Oak Tree coinage , and then there are coins that you would expect to see occasionally and you don't , such as
Seated Liberty Dollars - You see the other Seated denominations regularly - and you see the Morgan and Peace periodically -The Seated
Dollar is a "no show" (I've maybe ever seen one posted here ) . I also am mystified by the fact that you'll go for quite a long time without
seeing GW Buttons then you get a rash of them dug up over a year or two . I remember a year or more ago - there were an amazing number
of the Massachusetts Pine/Oak tree coins found - they seem to have fallen off now . There likely are no answers here -but these kinds
of questions are entertaining .

Your reply absolutely addresses my thoughts regarding these. And you are correct regarding the Seated Dollar, there has only been one found in the many years that I've followed this site. And I too recall the Pine/Oak coinage roll that this site's members were on not too long ago. I really need to start following some other forums to see if there is a national trend or if it is just tnet specific. There is no doubt a band wagon mentality regarding banner voting, not saying it's wrong nor do I disagree, something has to make it up there and I enjoy watching the scroll.

 

[Iron Patch]

This is an interesting thread ! (and perhaps overdue) - I too have wondered about the relative scarcity of GW Buttons compared with
Massachusetts Pine/Oak Tree coinage , and then there are coins that you would expect to see occasionally and you don't , such as
Seated Liberty Dollars - You see the other Seated denominations regularly - and you see the Morgan and Peace periodically -The Seated
Dollar is a "no show" (I've maybe ever seen one posted here ) . I also am mystified by the fact that you'll go for quite a long time without
seeing GW Buttons then you get a rash of them dug up over a year or two . I remember a year or more ago - there were an amazing number
of the Massachusetts Pine/Oak tree coins found - they seem to have fallen off now . There likely are no answers here -but these kinds
of questions are entertaining .

It does make sense, because you look at the value of a seated dollar say 25 years later compared to the button. The dollar was still a dollar, where politics had moved on and the button was probably not much more than a button. The question that comes to mind now is not GW button collecting as we currently know it, but how special were the buttons when they came out, and at what point did people start to collect them. Were they mostly forgotten for years before they started to be recognized as something of historical significance? Were there collectors for them around the CW period? Was Cobb the first person who really took interest, or was he just the first that had the money and resources to build the best collection? I wonder if most of these questions can be answered on the internet... maybe.

 

[Argentium]

Good points I.P. ! Additionally with reference to my question about scarcity of the Seated Dollars (as dug up coins ) I just read that" by the
early 1850's the silver content of these pieces was worth more than their face value , and later issues were not seen in circulation but were
used mainly in export trade". (quote from 2013 "Redbook " of U.S. Coins ) Add to these facts the idea that large silver dollars were not lost
with anything like the frequency of a dime , or quarter , and I can understand the "no show " associated with this particular coin .