German Weyersberg Kirschbaum & CO Solingen Bayonet

[DeathByMayson]

I was given this bayonet a couple years ago and I didn’t think much of it. But recently I rubbed some rust off and discovered it has Weyersberg Kirschbaum & CO Solingen on it. I looked up the company and found out it was a German bayonet probably made around the early 1900s. I’ve found nothing else about this type specifically. Can someone tell me more about this bayonet?

 

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[nhbenz]

Looks like a shortened model 1891 Mauser bayonet. If you can find other markings it may help determine a bit more of it's history. Many of the aluminum handled ones were sold to the Argentinine military, which would be confirmed if (as I think maybe I see) there is an oval with the letters RA on the handle.

 

[Mackaydon]

Yes, as 'nhbenz' mentioned, this bayonet appears to be a shortened model of the M1891 model. This shortened model is called the “M1891/31 Engineer's Carbine” model. Its blade length is 9.75 inches versus 15.75 inches for theM1891. The “31” designation marked the year (1931) when the longer blade bayonet was modified to the shortened blade.
Don.......

 

[namxat]

I beg to differ.

The south american Solingen bayos (mostly sold as scary nazi knife to uniformed souvenir hunters) all have a spear point, be they long or short.

This looks to me as if it was shortened do-it-yourself. Either after the war to make the long thing into a useable hunging/carry knife or it may even be an orginal piece from the first WW (dont know if the Germans used the posh export quality alu grips). I know that a lot of shortening and sharpening went on in the trenches and backcountry to get useable fighting knifes.

Greets Namxat

P.S: nice piece, polished and sharpend you could well use it today.

 

[DeathByMayson]

Looks like a shortened model 1891 Mauser bayonet. If you can find other markings it may help determine a bit more of it's history. Many of the aluminum handled ones were sold to the Argentinine military, which would be confirmed if (as I think maybe I see) there is an oval with the letters RA on the handle.

Indeed it does have RA on the handle

 

[DeathByMayson]

I beg to differ.

The south american Solingen bayos (mostly sold as scary nazi knife to uniformed souvenir hunters) all have a spear point, be they long or short.

This looks to me as if it was shortened do-it-yourself. Either after the war to make the long thing into a useable hunging/carry knife or it may even be an orginal piece from the first WW (dont know if the Germans used the posh export quality alu grips). I know that a lot of shortening and sharpening went on in the trenches and backcountry to get useable fighting knifes.

Greets Namxat

P.S: nice piece, polished and sharpend you could well use it today.

Yeah, I put it in vinegar which got most of the rust off without damaging it and it is beautiful.

 

[NOLA_Ken]

It's a shame it's been cut off. but I see a lot of those old bayonets that were cut down into hunting knives or for other common use when they went out of service. I really strips away pretty much all of the collector interest, unless it can be proven to be a field modification, like a broken bayonet cut into a fighting knife.

uncut....

and the rifle it was made for

 

[Mackaydon]

namxat,
I agree that both models were originally spear tipped. I also think that with the discover of the "RA" inside an oval makes this a modified (shortened and retipped) M1891. (The "RA"mark representing 'Republica Argentino'.) One online mentions: "Most M1891 rifles and bayonets were exported to the USA in the 1950s and 1960s, when Argentine export laws required that the national crest be ground away before being sold."
Don.......

 

[sutphin]

nice one new memeber

 

[NOLA_Ken]

namxat,
I agree that both models were originally spear tipped. I also think that with the discover of the "RA" inside an oval makes this a modified (shortened and retipped) M1891. (The "RA"mark representing 'Republica Argentino'.) One online mentions: "Most M1891 rifles and bayonets were exported to the USA in the 1950s and 1960s, when Argentine export laws required that the national crest be ground away before being sold."
Don.......

Both of the short versions of this bayonet has a much different tip. The "Engineers Carbine" version is the one that keeps the hooked quillion, Many of the 1891 bayonets were modified in the 1960's for use with M1 Carbines that the US sold as surplus, those are significantly different from this one though. Here's a pic of the engineers carbine version and from the tip is pretty clear that DeathByMayson's blade isn't an arsenal modification :

 

[DeathByMayson]

Both of the short versions of this bayonet has a much different tip. The "Engineers Carbine" version is the one that keeps the hooked quillion, Many of the 1891 bayonets were modified in the 1960's for use with M1 Carbines that the US sold as surplus, those are significantly different from this one though. Here's a pic of the carbine version and from the tip is pretty clear that DeathByMayson's blade isn't an arsenal modification :

View attachment 1496763

So when and where do you think it was made?
And is there any way to determine if it was shortened by a soldier compared to a hunter?

 

[NOLA_Ken]

So when and where do you think it was made?
And is there any way to determine if it was shortened by a soldier compared to a hunter?

It was made in Germany, the aluminum grip scales date it between 1893 -98, bayonets of this type made in 1892- early 1893 will have brass grip scales. In total there were 190,000 of the aluminum grip model and 40,000 of the brass grip model made, so it would be a desirable bayonet in good uncut condition. Sadly there is no way to know when it was cut down to its present length. For every genuine "bayonet cut down to fighting knife" there are a hundred forgeries and fakes. It would take having confirmed provenance like a photo of a soldier with the knife visible to convince a collector.

Even with no real collector value it's still a pretty cool piece, and to me it would be worth putting an edge on it and having a scabbard made to use as a camping knife.