Ghosts, Real or Not??

[Kevo_DFX]

I think Tricia said something very important, what do we "DEFINE" a ghost as?

If you're saying that at times, unexplained things happen that are the resut of energy or the remnants of that energy things that happened in the past? I could buy that. If you are talking about disembodied souls roaming the countryside for no other purpose than to play out the same scene of their lives over and over again for eternity, not so much.

It is very easy to explain something as mystical or numinous, and very hard to find the physical cause of what was happening. Are we so arrogant to think that things that are unexplained or "not logical" now will not be perfectly logical 400 years from now? I submit to you that the tides, the seasons, the stars, the sun were once regarded with religious fervor, because at the time they were unexplained.

Belief in ghosts DOES NOT necessitate the belief in an afterlife, if you regard the ghosts as an AFFECT of the energy we put out on a daily basis.

And if a "ghost" were to walk up to me tonight and shake hands, I would have no more reason to pray in the morning.

Are there ghosts? I don't care. I think doing right by your family and friends and having as much fun in the process is a lot more important.

Kevo

 

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[Kentucky Kache]

If you're saying that at times, unexplained things happen that are the resut of energy or the remnants of that energy things that happened in the past? I could buy that. If you are talking about disembodied souls roaming the countryside for no other purpose than to play out the same scene of their lives over and over again for eternity, not so much.

Could you explain the difference?

 

[Kevo_DFX]

Sure:

I used to smoke cigarettes. It took me a long time to quit. I still falter occassionally, but never more than one or two. Sometimes, when I see someone smoking a cigarette I can TASTE it. It tastes so good. It's so satisfying that it's all I can do not to go buy a pack.

Now in this instance, it's a combination of things. Habit, addiction, being a hardwired smoker. But couldn't ghosts be the same thing.

In Gettysburg, a lot of terrible things happened. A lot of energy, misery, and trauma entered the environment, not to mention a lot of heroism, bravery, and idealism. Could that have affected the environment? I think so. Everything has mass. Mass has weight. The acts of the past are affecting the environment now, just like runoff from 50 year old mines pollutes rivers now.

Sure, there's a bunch of weird stuff tht happens at Gettysburg. I would assume that's true of any place of great conflict, and to a lesser extent anywhere where there was a serious outpouring of energy. Like murders, suicide, rage, etc. I think the opposite is probably true as well. I feel peaceful in many churches? Is that the presence of God, or the residual energy of so many people communally wishhing for goodness and trying to lead a decent life? I say the latter, mush the same way I say ghosts are not souls, but the result of past expenditure of energy.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

But how could there be this energy after the body is gone. See, either way you slice it, you have to look at the fact that something exists outside the natural realm. I know you agree with that, but I still need a better explanation.

 

[Kevo_DFX]

I never said anything exists outside the natural realm. My thoughts have physical, natural weight. A lot of them would affect something. If I threw a grain of sand at my computer nothing would happen. If I sandblasted my computer, I wouldn't be able to reply to your messages.

Those millions of intense thoughts in any place of great tragedy have an affect on the environment. It doesn't take stepping outside of natural laws at all. We just have to understand thought a lot more to figure out HOW it affects the environment.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

I never said anything exists outside the natural realm. My thoughts have physical, natural weight. A lot of them would affect something. If I threw a grain of sand at my computer nothing would happen. If I sandblasted my computer, I wouldn't be able to reply to your messages.

Those millions of intense thoughts in any place of great tragedy have an affect on the environment. It doesn't take stepping outside of natural laws at all. We just have to understand thought a lot more to figure out HOW it affects the environment.

Then how can it exist outside the natural body? You say it's energy. Is the energy inside, or outside the human body? I understand natural energy, but what you need to explain is human forms being seen and heard by people who never knew them.

 

[Kevo_DFX]

Energy is all overy the place. Period. The chair your sitting on has energy. Why could it NOT exist outside of the human body?

And no, I don't need to explain why people see human forms. I quite frankly do not know if they do. I hear all kinds of people saying they saw human forms, and I SEE all kinds of photos with people making shapes out of clouds and little white orbs.

But I'll accept on faith, for a moment, that people have seen human forms. Can I explain why that happens? Nope. Neither can you, or anyone else. My point is, it does not take a leap of faith to a soul or God or an afterlife to explain something that we do not understand. To me, it is more logical to say:

A. Someone see something unexplained
B. Unexplained thing has no known present cause
C. Unexplained thing must be a result of something that happend in the past

Than it is to say:

A. Something unexplained happened
B. Unexplained thing has no present cause
C. A Union Soldier's soul is meandering around my lilac bushes

 

[Kentucky Kache]

We can't admit that because we don't know or understand something, that doesn't mean that no one does. If peoples thoughts are lingering about after their bodies are gone, I tell you that's an energy other than human realm.

 

[Kevo_DFX]

So if I punch a glass window, the blood that is left on the broken glass is outside of the human realm?

The main difference we're having, which I suspect will never be bridged, is that you're looking at energy as some sort of mystical thing. I think of it as the same thing that's in everything, a magnet, my tv, this delicious cookie that I'm eating.

Let me ask you, have you seen a ghost? If so, do you believe it is someone's soul?

 

[Kentucky Kache]

So if I punch a glass window, the blood that is left on the broken glass is outside of the human realm?

The main difference we're having, which I suspect will never be bridged, is that you're looking at energy as some sort of mystical thing. I think of it as the same thing that's in everything, a magnet, my tv, this delicious cookie that I'm eating.

Let me ask you, have you seen a ghost? If so, do you believe it is someone's soul?

Blood on the broken glass is not the same as what you were saying about thought energy manifesting. I know there is natural energy, I'm not trying to deny that. The only mystical energy I'm talking about is mystical energy. You're trying to lump everything together and call it the same thing. It's simply not the same.

I don't see ghosts, but I have had supernatural experiences that most people don't believe in. When it happens to you, then you believe.

 

[Kevo_DFX]

Yes, I am lumping them in all the same. They simply are. Of course, I admit I could be wrong, that's simply my version of the world. I am neither a physicist or a saint.

I also won't say I haven't had experiences I cannot explain. I just don't attribute them to phantasms and vengeful gods.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Yes, I am lumping them in all the same. They simply are. Of course, I admit I could be wrong, that's simply my version of the world. I am neither a physicist or a saint.

I also won't say I haven't had experiences I cannot explain. I just don't attribute them to phantasms and vengeful gods.

What I'm talking about attributes itself.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

THIS is INTERESTING... carry on!

 

[Tricia]

Everyone explains their world in different ways. When we start thinking beyond what we viscerally experience all sorts of explanations and theories become relevant.

Do I believe in ghosts yes. Do I believe in God no. Is a ghost a trapped soul? Could be. Maybe people are in death as they were in life and even though the body has died the consciousness hangs around out of curiosity.

Who really knows? We will some day but until then - there's good theories and bad theories and everyone has to decide which set of ideas or beliefs is right for themselves.

Hey, I believe in an afterlife and ghosts. Not sure how it works or why and I've taken my fair share of criticism and people have actually dismissed me because I admit to something they can't understand and don't believe.

C'est La Vie.

Regarding Gettysburg - been there. Kevo has a point about negative energies being counteracted by positive energies. That's why Gettysburg is what I call "prayed out". Yup, horrors of war occured, but over the years so many people have come there with reverence, praying for all those that died - so it's now a neutral site.

People claim to experience things there all the time. It's expected. Do they experience things in their hotel room of the Holiday Inn? Not usually but they're apt to "experience" something on the battlefield proper.

Funny how that works.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Everyone explains their world in different ways. When we start thinking beyond what we viscerally experience all sorts of explanations and theories become relevant.

Do I believe in ghosts yes. Do I believe in God no. Is a ghost a trapped soul? Could be. Maybe people are in death as they were in life and even though the body has died the consciousness hangs around out of curiosity.

Who really knows? We will some day but until then - there's good theories and bad theories and everyone has to decide which set of ideas or beliefs is right for themselves.

Hey, I believe in an afterlife and ghosts. Not sure how it works or why and I've taken my fair share of criticism and people have actually dismissed me because I admit to something they can't understand and don't believe.

C'est La Vie.

Regarding Gettysburg - been there. Kevo has a point about negative energies being counteracted by positive energies. That's why Gettysburg is what I call "prayed out". Yup, horrors of war occured, but over the years so many people have come there with reverence, praying for all those that died - so it's now a neutral site.

People claim to experience things there all the time. It's expected. Do they experience things in their hotel room of the Holiday Inn? Not usually but they're apt to "experience" something on the battlefield proper.

Funny how that works.

Since someone seems to have answered their prayers, I wonder who they were praying to.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

UH OH!

 

[Tricia]

Now are you guys making fun of me or do you have something to add to this conversation?

There is a difference between spiritual energy left in place by an emotional event and religious beliefs.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Now are you guys making fun of me or do you have something to add to this conversation?

There is a difference between spiritual energy left in place by an emotional event and religious beliefs.

I'm not making fun...just asking who they were praying to. I wonder who.

Can you explain the difference between spiritual energy left in place by an emotional event and religious belief of spirits after death?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I wasn't making fun of you, either. I had a "thread" deleted by "someone" because it was getting "too religious", with the "G" word... the "B" word... the "J" word... SAD, isn't? BTW, I
think the "energy" left behind "in an EMOTIONAL moment", is a form of IMPRINTING... like taping something with a tape-recorder... COULD be played over & over, DUNNO. Belief in an
"After-Life" is covered in the NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE "thread"; check it out...

 

[Old Dog]

I would have voted but the poll doesn't work anymore.

oh well