Glass bottle w/ bubbles found in Lake in Florida

[EagleEye1]

Not sure what this is? It has bubbles in it and the bottom is odd as it looks like a top of another bottle was stuck to it. Water levels very low and this was found in a Lake in Central Florida area. View attachment 1917003 View attachment 1917004 View attachment 1917005 View attachment 1917006 View attachment 1917007 View attachment 1917008

Thank you for any leads/info

 

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[villagenut]

It is an ale bottle probably from 1840-60 and the mark on its base is a pontil scar from being blown. I keep these even broken.and

 

[EagleEye1]

It is an ale bottle probably from 1840-60 and the mark on its base is a pontil scar from being blown. I keep these even broken.and

Thank you, you're from Florida I see. I made this post without detail on purpose to get a broader possible range of opinions. Your thoughts on 2nd Seminole time frame if potentially found in such an area that is known to have been one....ca late 1830's?

 

[RatherBeDigging]

You often find these in big pieces because black glass was made with iron slag which made it both very dark and tough to break. Good for transporting your Gin on a ship for example.

 

[EagleEye1]

You often find these in big pieces because black glass was made with iron slag which made it both very dark and tough to break. Good for transporting your Gin on a ship for example.

Good info and makes sense as extremely likely transported by a small boat or a steamship. This area has also seen human activity in more recent years, so to find something even partially intact made of glass fits your explanation. Your thoughts on the time frame this could have been made?

 

[villagenut]

Could be 2nd SW period but can't rule out a little later either. Other artifacts from the same area would assist in narrowing it down a little by means of context.

 

[RatherBeDigging]

Pontail scar puts it up to like 1865. Originally a 4 to 6 foot pontail/punty rod was attached to the bottle base with a little blob of molten glass in order to hold the bottle while finishing the bottle lip by hand. Then a few drops of water were dropped on the joint and the rod snapped off. Hence the scar. Often it wasn't a clean break and the scar would have to be ground down so the bottle wouldn't wobble on its base. By 1865 inventions such as the snap case would accomplish the task of holding the bottle for finishing without the scar dominated. Took until like 1910 to fully mold a bottle and its lip on a mold. Why such a long pontail rod (punty) ? So you didn't burn your hands.

 

[EagleEye1]

Pontail scar puts it up to like 1865. Originally a 4 to 6 foot pontail/punty rod was attached to the bottle base with a little blob of molten glass in order to hold the bottle while finishing the bottle lip by hand. Then a few drops of water were dropped on the joint and the rod snapped off. Hence the scar. Often it wasn't a clean break and the scar would have to be ground down so the bottle wouldn't wobble on its base. By 1865 inventions such as the snap case would accomplish the task of holding the bottle for finishing without the scar dominated. Took until like 1910 to fully mold a bottle and its lip on a mold. Why such a long pontail rod (punty) ? So you didn't burn your hands.

Thank you everyone for the answers. So if I am reading this correctly, the practice of the pontail scar etc like seen in the bottle piece I found, means 1865ish at latest most likely or no? And this was a known shape/practice to see on a blown bottle in the 1830's era or not? Thanks again for any info!

 

[HuntinDog]

That's a great piece. Wish it were whole..
By the style, size and shape... a free blown wine or ale bottle.
Pontiled black glass of this type can range all the way back into the 1600's and up to around the very early 1800's.
Looking at that piece, with the slumped base and crudity, I would say well into the 1700's

 

[How Lucky]

To find more newer or older bottles, get yourself a three to four foot steel rod and gently probe the sand. You may find more. Happy hunting!

 

[RatherBeDigging]

Basically not any newer than 1865. The more crude bottles with big bubbles are much earlier than that. How long the punty process goes back I have no idea. I have an 1840s Philadelphia perfume bottle with the scar.

 

[EagleEye1]

Basically not any newer than 1865. The more crude bottles with big bubbles are much earlier than that. How long the punty process goes back I have no idea. I have an 1840s Philadelphia perfume bottle with the scar.

Hmmm, okay I take your opinion seriously. Let me just add this aspect, the area with this was found is a known 2nd Seminole War Military site which places troops in that area 1837-38 for this particular Fort. The area overall, didn't have really ANYONE in that area pre-War Between the States. There were apparently a few not too far, but at this exact site, no evidence of such.

Not saying you're wrong, just with the details regarding population (or rather lack thereof in the 1860's) and other items found there that match the 1837-38 time frame found, it would be kind of MORE impressive of a find if indeed 1865ish or beyond.

 

[RatherBeDigging]

Well for your piece 1837/38 would make sense as you have the activity history. I find black glass sometimes when hunting for sea glass along the beach. Usually dating sea glass is much less precise since you don't know where it floated in from. Can only go by bottle base or lip style if you are lucky enough to get the parts. Most of my glass dating has been rough estimates. In general ponty scar glass black or not isn't seen much after 1865ish. Approached my initial response from a more general view on black glass instead of a more specific study on your particular piece.

 

[villagenut]

Rather be digging said it is not newer than 1865 which is a correct statement. This means it is probably from before that date but most likely a few decades before. Based on other attributed artifacts you found there, it may very well be from the 2nd SW, but there is no real proof of it being anything more than a probability. The dating methods of bottles are in time frames as bottle making evolved and methods changed. Unless you have a whole bottle with the rest of the clues, you will only have a window of a date range. I dont think anyone who posted here was wrong in any of their statements FWIW.

 

[EagleEye1]

Rather be digging said it is not newer than 1865 which is a correct statement. This means it is probably from before that date but most likely a few decades before. Based on other attributed artifacts you found there, it may very well be from the 2nd SW, but there is no real proof of it being anything more than a probability. The dating methods of bottles are in time frames as bottle making evolved and methods changed. Unless you have a whole bottle with the rest of the clues, you will only have a window of a date range. I dont think anyone who posted here was wrong in any of their statements FWIW.

Ah, I stand corrected. I misread "Rather be Digging's" post. Thanks to ALL of you for your help! I have posted some more stuff from today in "Today's finds" FYI, and Villagenut, you seem to have some good information and experience on the 2nd Seminole War if you want to check those posts out. Thanks again everyone for the help!

 

[EagleEye1]

I forgot about this display and artifact at Fort King (Ocala, FL). I have a ton of pictures on my computer of their recent finds and it adds up imo. View attachment 1917309