GOLD RUSH ALASKA season 2

[Goodyguy]

On the Discovery Channel Friday, October 28, 2011 at 9PM e/p.

Well folks it wont be long until the drama continues
Here's a sneak preview...

 

[Goodyguy]

Gerry,

I agree with you 100% about preserving history! As a member of an archaeological society myself, I have been involved with many archaeological digs where once the artifacts have been properly tagged and cataloged were subsequently placed into museums for preservation and public viewing.

However unless there is something useful to be learned about a culture or historical event by the artifact itself, I see no problem with folks collecting souvenirs of the past. After all, how many square nails does a museum or archaeologist have to have in order to prove that square nails were in common use during the 1800's?

I submit that there is really nothing of any note to be learned from the deteriorating relics along the route that would shed any earth shattering information on that period of history that a museum could not live without.

Here is where I get into frequent disagreement's with those who have made archaeology their profession. I believe that everyone has a right to "treasure hunt". Believe me, archaeologists do it all the time in the "name" of science while adding the good stuff to their personal collection or selling to interested buyers whether it be a museum or a private collector.

Either way, the artifacts are enjoyed by their owners, whether they collected them in person or purchased them from an "archie"

However after saying all of this, It is my sincere wish that in order to preserve important finds that really do have a bearing on our knowledge of history I would be in complete favor of the US adopting the very same standards of disclosure by treasure hunters as the UK!

Of course there is quite a huge difference in the age and diversity of historical artifacts found in the UK than what is available here in the US.

GG~

 

[kuger]

..........Gork,Kudo's to you for doing the right thing but.....be cautious of who you show that site to.There was some petroglyphs my family knew about for years and we were the only ones that knew they were there(for fact)Well my Dad thought he was doing the right thing and told the BLM about them,and took two of there people in(on horseback)Mind you,we knew about these for over 50 years.......within months of Dads trip with those "folks",somebody went in with malls and chisels and took %90 of what they could

Very good advice. This is why I am going to study the site more with a friend who is the same "level" as me. We are both into preserving the history of the Butterfield Overland Trail in Arizona. I have been working with this fellow for five years and trust him completely. I might add a comment here. We sometimes refer to BLM ground. The proper way to define it is as Federal ground administered by the BLM.

 

[kuger]

Gerry,

I agree with you 100% about preserving history! As a member of an archaeological society myself, I have been involved with many archaeological digs where once the artifacts have been properly tagged and cataloged were subsequently placed into museums for preservation and public viewing.

However unless there is something useful to be learned about a culture or historical event by the artifact itself, I see no problem with folks collecting souvenirs of the past. After all, how many square nails does a museum or archaeologist have to have in order to prove that square nails were in common use during the 1800's?

I submit that there is really nothing of any note to be learned from the deteriorating relics along the route that would shed any earth shattering information on that period of history that a museum could not live without.

Here is where I get into frequent disagreement's with those who have made archaeology their profession. I believe that everyone has a right to "treasure hunt". Believe me, archaeologists do it all the time in the "name" of science while adding the good stuff to their personal collection or selling to interested buyers whether it be a museum or a private collector.

Either way, the artifacts are enjoyed by their owners, whether they collected them in person or purchased them from an "archie"

However after saying all of this, It is my sincere wish that in order to preserve important finds that really do have a bearing on our knowledge of history I would be in complete favor of the US adopting the very same standards of disclosure by treasure hunters as the UK!

GG~

I completly agree,as of now the ,"archies",see us as the enemy and vice a versa.The way it is now even if it was a find that would change history it would be taken from you,you probably landed in jail and the info gleaned from it never made public because "Old Archis,",theories or facts are never wrong

 

[Gork]

Gerry,

I agree with you 100% about preserving history! As a member of an archaeological society myself, I have been involved with many archaeological digs where once the artifacts have been properly tagged and cataloged were subsequently placed into museums for preservation and public viewing.

However unless there is something useful to be learned about a culture or historical event by the artifact itself, I see no problem with folks collecting souvenirs of the past. After all, how many square nails does a museum or archaeologist have to have in order to prove that square nails were in common use during the 1800's?

I submit that there is really nothing of any note to be learned from the deteriorating relics along the route that would shed any earth shattering information on that period of history that a museum could not live without.

Here is where I get into frequent disagreement's with those who have made archaeology their profession. I believe that everyone has a right to "treasure hunt". Believe me, archaeologists do it all the time in the "name" of science while adding the good stuff to their personal collection or selling to interested buyers whether it be a museum or a private collector.

Either way, the artifacts are enjoyed by their owners, whether they collected them in person or purchased them from an "archie"

However after saying all of this, It is my sincere wish that in order to preserve important finds that really do have a bearing on our knowledge of history I would be in complete favor of the US adopting the very same standards of disclosure by treasure hunters as the UK!

Of course there is quite a huge difference in the age and diversity of historical artifacts found in the UK than what is available here in the US.

GG~

Great post GoodyGuy!!! You are absolutely right (and well written). That is another good point written into the "Treasure Trove" laws of Great Britain. The idea of random single finds that may have no historical value. I have seen many random mini balls along the trail. How many of these can a museum use? Our philosophy has been described by sociologists as "pragmatic." But it is the Europeans that have come up with the "pragmatic" laws concerning this issue.

 

[Goldbear]

Like the human footprints along with dino tracks in texas. If some archie doesn't like it he will destroy it himself.

http://www.bible.ca/tracks/tracks.htm

 

[Klondikeike]

Great post GG...

Once when commercially mining in the "High Sierras" of the northern edge of the Mother Lode district.... we had discovered a hanging channel on one side of a ridge and several tributaries to a totally diferent watershed on the other side of the ridge...

Where we wanted to mine, there was an obvious water ditch designed to deliver water for hydraulic mining further down the mountain... near the ditch, was a very small flattened area an a crumbled pile of rocks..possibly a small chiminy....there was no local mention or registration of this very old, 15 mile long ditch...

The US Forest Service would not approve our Plan of Operation until an "Arcie" studied the area to determind if society could do without these items of antiquity....

This area had fallen into a study by some college students about the spotted owl.... back in the early 1980's....
The students ha marked of and registered nearly 400 acreas of land over the small flattened area and crumbled stones.

It took 3 years and over $25,000 to get this area suspended from the national archives in Denver. Once something is registered, one cannot get it removed, just suspended...

The "archie" determind that what was there was insignficant evidence to warrent such a work stoppage as there were more significant evidence of early day mining activity in the Sierra's....

Many times, to secure information and evidence of early man activities.... special interest groups just go way too far... The students from Arizona U.. were there to count spotted Olws... but stepped outside their intended study and registered something they knew very little about....and caused me sgnificant work stoppage and money....

Klondike...

 

[Gork]

This is a story, not of my first nugget in a pan, but of my first one ounce nugget in a pan. The reason it is in this category heading is that it is only 5 miles from the Hoffman's of the Gold Rush show.
I staked my first claims in the Klondike in 1979. I started my first exploration shaft on my discovery claim (a 1,500' placer claim instead of the standard 500' placer claim because I was allowed this being the discoverer of this particular gold bearing watershed) using a home built boiler and an 1898 steam point. At the 30' level the water from the melting permafrost was pouring in so fast I made the choice not to die. I had learned a lot from this shaft and decided to try another place up the valley. This time I decided to be better prepared. I stacked planks for shoring and built a better boiler, etc. After the boiler was up to pressure I sank the steam point about 6' into the permafrost and let it percolate overnight. The next day I mucked the hole out and then had to build a windlass for the next day to haul out the melted permafrost. I had again tried to sink the point in another 6' but at the 5' level the point hit a rock. There are often random rocks that have slide down the sides of the ancient valley and lodged themselves in the peat-like muck that is the overburden hiding the ancient creek bed.
When I mucked the hole out, I was surprised to see a layer of alluvial gravel. I dug about 18" into it and hit bedrock. Wow! Only about 12' to bedrock. The first pan was a stunner with about 1/8 ounce of gold and a 2 1/2 pennyweight nugget shaped like a bear. I had hit the center of the pay streak! I now had to remove the overburden to do some mining.
It took me a hard year, but I opened up a short stretch by various means. I had some visitors about this time from Mesa-Tempe, Arizona, that I had met when I was down there and they showed up just as I had put in the two years of hard work to prospect the valley and open it up. They immediately wanted to pan in the pay streak. I don't like to be inhospitable, but holy cow! They went away not thinking too much good about me.
Then about 200' up the valley I set up a 3,000 gallon spruce log dam and added a 150' long wooden sluiceway to carry the water to the site. Although I was going to begin a hand-mining operation, which I did for 6 years until I made enough to buy my heavy equipment, I started panning different areas of the exposed gravel to better understand the gold content. The Klondike bedrock is hard for some to understand and is sometimes their downfall. It is usually very soft and deteriorated. While panning I hit an unusual section of hard bedrock. The magnetite (black sand) in my valley is very unusual in that it is larger than usual and all crystalline and of 6 sides. And lots of it!!!! Each pan contains a great amount. I took a pan on the hard bed rock. I worked the lighter gravel out of the pan until only a large amount of magnetite was left. Because gold is often lost when trying pan down the black sand, I simply tilted the pan to put the large amount of black sand on one side. I then started swirling the water over the black sand to work it down and see if there was any gold. A small dot of gold appeared and as I keep swirling the water the dot got bigger and bigger---and so did my eyes. It didn't stop until it uncovered a nugget that weighed exactly one ounce. In my 34 years in the Klondike I have gotten many larger nuggets---but nothing will beat that thrill of seeing it in the gold pan!!!! The photo is this nugget and as you can see it has a loop so I can wear it to Dawson City on Friday nights. The other photo of the cover of the 1983 California Mining Journal is of me starting that second successful

shaft.

 

[Goodyguy]

Keep em coming guy's, Great stuff!

Gork ...awesome nugget and you look like you are not allergic to hard work!
You definitely earned it and a whole lot more!
I can't believe you wouldn't let the tin horns pan in the pay streak you worked for two years to open

Ike ...There are way too many factors working against prospectors to begin with for us to have to put up with a group of asinine students still wet behind the ears thinking they know what's best not only as far as nature is concerned, but for all humanity as well.

Say Gork..... Would you play a game of pool for that nugget if I came up to the snake pit ?

 

[Gork]

GoodyGuy:

No! I am the world's worst pool player. One night when I was in Diamond Tooth Gertie's (we always go there first before we go to the Snakepit) a miner friend at the poker table asked me when I was going to sit down and have it a go. I told him as soon as I know I am smarter than the rest of the people at the table, then I will play. Since that will never happen, I'll just watch. It is the same with pool.

 

[Goodyguy]

GoodyGuy:

No! I am the world's worst pool player. One night when I was in Diamond Tooth Gertie's (we always go there first before we go to the Snakepit) a miner friend at the poker table asked me when I was going to sit down and have it a go. I told him as soon as I know I am smarter than the rest of the people at the table, then I will play. Since that will never happen, I'll just watch. It is the same with pool.

That's good because I've never played pool before, perhaps you could teach me.

 

[Gork]

GoodyGuy:

No! I am the world's worst pool player. One night when I was in Diamond Tooth Gertie's (we always go there first before we go to the Snakepit) a miner friend at the poker table asked me when I was going to sit down and have it a go. I told him as soon as I know I am smarter than the rest of the people at the table, then I will play. Since that will never happen, I'll just watch. It is the same with pool.

That's good because I've never played pool before, perhaps you could teach me.

Wow, now there is a picture. First you would have to show me which end of the pool stick goes first.

 

[Goodyguy]

Wow, now there is a picture. First you would have to show me which end of the pool stick goes first.

Spoken like a true pool hustler

 

[jeff of pa]

Wow, now there is a picture. First you would have to show me which end of the pool stick goes first.

Spoken like a true pool hustler

Was thinking the same

 

[Gork]

I'll play for a beer GoodyGuy. But, then again, I hope I would lose because I would like to buy you a beer anyway.

 

[Gork]

It is just about time for me to go watch the Hoffmans on the Gold Rush show. I watch it because I am hoping to see some familiar Klondike faces. If you want to have a little fun, here is a website that shows a webcam on Front Street in Dawson City about thirty miles from their Klondike operation. Of course, they are not there now. Me either as I am heading for the Arizona sun shortly.
The camera is mounted on the book store right near the Dawson City Trading Post. It is pointed at the Yukon River. Sometimes they swing it more right and you can see the old bank that the famous Klondike poet Robert Service (The Spell of the Yukon) worked in. You can also see one of the beached historical Yukon River boats that is now a tourist site. This summer you could see the Hoffmans parading around Front Street posing for the tourists.
The web site: www.yukonbooks.com/dawson_webcam/

 

[Gork]

A breakdown of the Hoffman's clean-up. Their scale says four ounces. The average finess of placer gold on this part of upper-Quartz Creek = 700 (70%). Seventy percent of four is 2.8 ounces. Ten percent of the four ounces to Mcneil = 0.4 ounces. 2.8 -0.4 = 2.4 ounces. Five percent of that to the refinery. = 0.12 ounce. 2.4 -0.12 = 2.28 actual ounces. 2.28 actual ounces x $1,600 (the figure they use) = $3,648. $3,648 split between 7 partners = $521.14 each.

 

[Gork]

Will the new expenses of the very expensive clean-up jig be added to the $125,000 expenses that they have stated in the past? Will the $2,000 expense to fix the loader be added to the total?

 

[Goodyguy]

I was surprised to hear that there were over 100 folks on the production crews!
And it also seems that some of the drama may not have been scripted as much as we first thought.

I've been told by those in the know that it's not uncommon for a show such as the second season of Gold Rush Alaska to have upwards of a 15-20 million dollar production budget! (first season not over 10 million)The gold is just icing on the cake.

Without backing by the Discovery channel I doubt the Hoffman's would ever have made it out of Oregon.

Hey Gork the first round is on me

 

[jeff of pa]

I was surprised to hear that there were over 100 folks on the production crews!
And it also seems that some of the drama may not have been scripted as much as we first thought.

I've been told by those in the know that it's not uncommon for a show such as Gold Rush Alaska to have upwards of a 15-20 million dollar production budget! The gold is just icing on the cake.

Without backing by the Discovery channel I doubt the Hoffman's would ever have made it out of Oregon.

Hey Gork the first round is on me

Although I don't know them Personally,
I Still think they have so Much Money,
this is an attempt at a "Hobby" for them.

 

[Gork]

Although "scripted" is the wrong word to describe the nature of this show, it is at least contrived in many ways. The article in the Village Voice pointed out that the people for these many reality shows are interviewed and the groups selected are picked out for their "conflict problems." This was pointed out by the Canadian media on CBC. This means they like to argue a lot. If you skim through the many reality shows on TV, you see just that. We are in trouble if that is the norm of society. The show is somewhat contrived in other ways. Being an active miner there, and only five miles from them, I saw them many times. For instance, we are returning back to camp and just turned on to the Hunker road. The Hoffmans were setting in their trucks along side the road. Around the next corner we see the camera crew setting up and their cameras and talking to the Hoffmans with their walkytalkies. Also, people do not act the same off camera as on camera when they are being filmed and know what they are saying is going to be presented to the public.
The reason we miners in the Klondike take so much notice of this production is because it represents a wrong model presented to the public about the business of gold mining.
Yes, there are many "sleazy" situations that go on there. The sense of proportion of the amount of gold that is being shown is rather pathetic. The excitement that they show is laughable to only show four ounces for such a large group of miners and the time they put in. There are a number of successful miners in that area, that when they do a clean-up (clean-out as the Hoffmans put it) the gold that can be seen in the riffles would knock their socks off. Clean-ups often amount to over 100 ounces. Also, they don't argue and act like the three stooges.