Gold Washington Dollar cache: clue inquiry

[goldenrulefarm]

What can I tell you? If you thrown 13 wagons loads of gold coins in a brook, they would have damn it up. Then, how would you get them out of the brook, if you put them there. People make up stories about these coins being found. I still have a offer of $100.00 for pictures for just one coin. It is getting better, I am offering $100.00 for any newspaper or magazines pictures of persons holding these coins with a big smile on their face. I wondering how much these coins are worth each? If this happen in 1779, Written letters to the Hartford Cournat in 1951, Publish in Lost Treasure magazine at least in 1964 or before, every year. How come many professional treasure hunters never found the treasure? Before you look for it, ask yourself, how many containers and trucks you would need to remove the coins, and where or where are you going to store them? I been researching this story since 1964. There are so many stories about Captain Kidd burying treasures in Connecticut and they were never found and I am not looking for them. I don't make fun of people, it is just not my style. If you believe the story, go for it, but, first: RESEARCH BEFORE YOU SEARCH. Connecticut Sam [email protected]

 

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[goldenrulefarm]

Dear Friends

I have a new address and still no pictures of the gold washington coins.

Connecticut Sam

[email protected]

 

[Zephyr]

Another thing to research would be army records of the era. A payroll heist would definitely go into the official record. Somebody somewhere would have been responsible for that money, and if any of it went missing (for whatever reason), a report would have been made ("CYA" is not something new) in connection with an investigation.

 

[Old Dog]

Tommy,
Trust the research you do yourself,
here is what I found just poking around today.

There is a lot of Wonderful info to glean from all of this thread.

But try a bit of common since too.
First off after 1789 the army wasn't a revolutionary army any longer. By 1790 anyone who was not planning to make a career of the army was already home or on the way.

The currency and amounts made are pretty much common knowledge. right down to the dies used to make the coinage. This was over two hundred years ago, there weren't hydraulic presses like there are now, these coins were hand struck.

Ref.. Coin World, Red book... and others

The coinage from numerous countries was accepted in commerce for 30 + years even after the war of 1812 especially since the larger coins were pretty hard on the minting crew and even more so on the dies themselves

The earliest authorised American made Gold coins were issued by the mint in 1792 with the dollar being the smallest at 24 3/4 grains of Gold.
I have never even seen a picture of one of these coins but given the years of the supposed mintages (quantity unknown )..... Yes this story is entirely possible....

Sure would like to see one of those little beauties

If you find one, you very likely could NAME YOUR PRICE !
It very well may be the only known copy.


OD

 

[PirateCod]

Hello. I am a nineteen year old from Indiana...I am not a treasure hunter by any means and I don't consider myself to be very smart when it comes to riddles. I have done some research and tried to figure out this mystery. I was wondering...Since the Revolutionary War was between Britan and the US is it possible that the coins are really British? Let me explain what I mean.. If we look into history we see that during the 1799 time period, GEORGE the III ruled Great Britan, there is one similarity...George Washing, George The III they both share the same first name. In 1799 Great Britan had a gold coin in circulation called the "Guinea" which was equal to 20-21 shillings. Britan stopped production of shillings in 1966 so I found a shilling - pound ratio converter thing. 21 shillings is equivilent to 1 pound...So then I took 1 pound and translated it into the US dollar. It came out as 1 pound equals 1.9 US dollars, I am no money expert but is it possible that over the years the Pound increased in value, so perhaps a long time ago 21 shillings was equal to 1 US dollar? So perhaps people mistook the coin for a "dollar" because it has such a uncanny resemblence to the US George Washington dollar. I found a website with information on them.

http://24carat.co.uk/guineasgeorgeiiispadeframe.html

If you notice the pictures of George the III you will see that he has a slight resemblence to George Washington. So I was asking, is it possible that these 1799 Guineas are being mistaken for 1799 George Washing gold coins?

I am far from a coin expert I know and I am sorry if this information makes no sense as I am slightly intimidated with all of you seasoned hunters around. I am looking to purchase my first Metal Detector when I get the money but am struggling on which one to buy. I really appriciate you guys taking the time to read this and I hope that one day I can be as educated and successful as all of you. ^_^

EDIT: Oops! I am really sorry to edit this but I also wanted to point out that on the Guineas it says the name "Georgious" so is it possible that people announce the coins "George Washington Dollars" since there are so many coincedences between the two?

 

[Old Dog]

Pirate,
You could have a point.
At the time though, with the memory of the British abuses,
I really don't think there would be too much chance of that kind of a mistake.
I think they would have smelted the gold and minted new coins from the gold.

Tommy,
I personally think that there may be enough info to give credence to your story.
If you feel like still looking for the loot, There may be 2.5 mil(continental) out there just waiting for you. Can you imagine the amount that would be worth at the going rate today?

Get after it kid, there is enough info here to send quite a few folks out to find it.

And the race is on.....

OD

 

[PirateCod]

I went ahead and did a little more research. It says that the "Guineas" stopped production in 1799 which would suggest that the coins would have been melted to make new ones, like Old Dog suggested. There was a massive gold shortage and is there a small possibility that the US Revolutionary soldiers seized the gold? Maybe they stole it and then it was stolen from them. Here is some more info on "Guineas," the 1799 generation was under the rule of King George III.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinea_coin

However.. This website shows that the Guinea was ACTUALLY the main gold coin of Britian until 1813, under King George III (See the Last Paragraph on this page)

http://www.goldsovereigns.co.uk/uniteandguineas.html

This would mean that even though they stopped production on the coin in 1799 there were enough Guineas left to last 14 years. Being that the coin was the MAIN gold source of great Britian it would suggest that it was a lot more common than we think.

Does anyone know the possibility of a US Heist on a stash of Guineas? I'm all for documentation but if the US "stole" that money from the British then perhaps they would keep it under wrap..I guess that is something for all the conspiricists to ponder.

 

[TreasureTales]

Frankly, I doubt that the gold (even if dumped into the stream) stayed there for very long. Something that important in post-revolutionary America would have been sought and recovered by locals, those who dumped it, or by anybody else in a hurry to make a lot of money fast. There may actually have been a few coins that did not get recovered from the site, and those may be the ones that have been reported found through the years. Just as with the coins that were lost by the armored truck in Florida several years ago, most of the coins were eventually recovered but many remain lost or grabbed by others.

I say, search for the treasure and if nothing else it would make a great story for Lost Treasure Magazine.

 

[TreasureTales]

Here's my theory; This huge cache was somehow transported to the area in Ct. that kiddrock33 is currently in the process of uncovering. (see thread; http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,26087.0.html ).

The Housatonic River is a river, approximately 149 mi (240 km) long, in western Massachusetts and western Connecticut in the United States.

Well wouldn't that be interesting! OK, I vote for this theory. Sounds as plausible as any other IMHO.

 

[coda]

If remnants have been found after the fact its not a bad start. Locate each of these findings and verify they are legitimate, study the hydrology overlay and natural erosion occurances for the area. It will lead you to the source.

 

[GaBnn3]

To answer the original question, I suggest that you approach the problem as if it was you who were trying to cache the money. This requires old maps, familiarization with the area, and identifying landmarks that they might have used for their return to recover it. I found an empty cache site, in this manner, that once held the multi-million dollar fortune of a prohibition gangster. I've noticed that many suggest that you can always find a trail of breadcrumbs leading to the treasure if you do enough research. That's not true. You may just have to apply your own intuition and do the legwork. I'm not knocking research. But, I've come to believe that you have to use your own strengths. I'm not a good researcher. In the above case, I just got out there and looked, using my common sense and intuition. Perhaps there was info that would have made my search easier. But, I didn't find it. There are clearly good researchers who post here. There are also armchair treasure hunters, who will never find anything. It would be great to find some useful info. But, it just may not exist. Just get started, and don't wait for someone here to tell you what to do or where to look. General concepts; During the revolutionary war there was much irregular activity behind the scenes, with each side doing what is could to affect the outcome. Tax collectors from each side levying the citizens to finance the war effort, with much war profiteering going on. These gangs of "tax collectors" robbed each other and attempted to bully and intimdate the citizens on the other side, who very often knew each other. These were former neighbors, who were forced to take sides once the conflict started. The battles were often fought by militia, rather than regular army forces, with the members returning to their homesteads after the fight. You can be sure that, though Bates was a captain in the colonial militia, Bates tavern held few secrets from the other side. The question was raised as to whether or not Bates was in on the robbery, if there was one. Good point. I think not. Because, his family would have had the trappings of wealth and mobility, not indicated by his family continuing to run the tavern. The transportation of such a fortune would surely have been a closely guarded secret. Would Bates have know in advance? If France sent the money, whose coin did they send? Perhaps they did not send French coin, if they wanted to conceal their fingerprints from the British. France had the resources to do so. If you focus on the details that some may emphasize, you could be putting blinders on, or even get discouraged. So, the answere is that there is no answer. We don't know the details, and they may not exist. To even find one coin would make your efforts rewarded. Get out there. After an extensive and distinguished law enforcement career, my strength is getting inside criminal minds. These would have been murders and robbers, commiting their crime behind the guise of loyalty to their cause. I'm not sure that this is real. But, I'll give you this scenario. I've estimated about a ton and a half of coin, not 13 wagon loads, though there may have been 13 supply wagons. When the coin was discovered, they would have stayed on the regular roads long enough to get away from the scene of the crime. But, not too far, lest they be spotted. Then they would have gotten off the road to bury the cache. But, not too far, for the wagons were heavy, and, then, probably out of sight from the road to avoid being spotted by a passerby, say behind a hill, around a lake, or along a stream. Thus, concealment along with the landmark to find it again. There would have been a landmark for them to find it again. They would have wanted to deny the colonials of the money, while keeping it themselves for the future. The slitting of the throats, rather than musket or sword, was to maintain silence, which means they were concerned about being spotted, and the guards were dismounted from the wagons. Probably, at the taven when the guards were liquored up, thanks to Captain Bates hospitality. The placement of the wagons, afterward, would have been to distract the inevitable search party from finding the actual location. Thus, the cache location is probably slightly farther from the tavern, than the field where the wagons were found, But, I'd guess, in the same general direction. So, view old maps to see what roads existed, side by side with new topo maps, having the details not represented on the old maps, to identify potential sites. Then, visits to the area to sort them out and prioritize your search. Start within a half mile of where the wagons were later found. At least I've tried to tell you something useful. Good luck.

 

[bob1022]

i've been looking for this cashe for six years. in the woods 18 times; used a electroscope and detector, found musket balls flintlock parts .this area is known for copper,but is loaded with gold. the year before i started looking i researched for 100s of hours, i can tell you this ,it did happen G. Washington made a statement after he was president about it. he stated that it was 1.2 million in 20franc 1778 gold.and i'll bet the farm that henry wooster had nothing to do with it. LOOKUP SEIZURE OF HENRY WOOSTER and read all of it! i know this area like the back of my hand now,ITS THERE. DONT STOP LOOKING.i'll be back in the spring. :advise ,stay low at first near water easy digging [swamp]. any higher all rock. if you know of any mine air shafts are; that would help to! good luck and if you need my pickup to haul it just give me a call.

 

[gemee]

Bob, you need to go meet-up with kiddrock33. You will find him over on The Revolutionary War, with this thread; http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,29033.0.html

 

[Copperhead]

i've been looking for this cashe for six years. in the woods 18 times; used a electroscope and detector, found musket balls flintlock parts .this area is known for copper,but is loaded with gold. the year before i started looking i researched for 100s of hours, i can tell you this ,it did happen G. Washington made a statement after he was president about it. he stated that it was 1.2 million in 20franc 1778 gold.and i'll bet the farm that henry wooster had nothing to do with it. LOOKUP SEIZURE OF HENRY WOOSTER and read all of it! i know this area like the back of my hand now,ITS THERE. DONT STOP LOOKING.i'll be back in the spring. :advise ,stay low at first near water easy digging [swamp]. any higher all rock. if you know of any mine air shafts are; that would help to! good luck and if you need my pickup to haul it just give me a call.

Welcome to Tnet Bob...sounds like you've spent some time pursuing this..can you reveal the source of GW's statement about this?.......the coin you mentioned in his statement could be mistaken as a "washington dollar" ....were you able to verify any supposed "recent finds"?....I still find this story intriguing....thanks for the post..

 

[vegasmtl]

This is some real fascinating stuff, sure would be cool if it is found!

HH
vegasmtl

 

[les]

Hi Tom: In my opinion,,you have alot of info here already, it may not be to where the heist can be proven Or disproved,,alot of years goneby,,If I believed this story,,not saying I dont,,> I would get together with some of the guys here that live close to the sight,, do a quick search of that streambed,any ravine,ditch, or gulley that emptys into the stream during a hard rain, several guys hunting with you can cover a good sized area pretty quick,,ya might just get lucky,, what could it hurt to try, Im sure you have probably wasted a day or two in your life doing less,, I have,, Ya gotta play to win. It would be fun even if ya dont find anything,,Those Streams have changed since 1779, count on it,, Ponds that were there in 1779 would probably be gone now,, If you know the location of the heist, where the wagon was found,thats a darn good start on something that happened in 1779. Id get some guys together take a couple days & do a quick search first,,see what your up against,actually look the sight over, then research the heck outa it. If there were Coins found in the Stream by just looking down & finding them,,you are going to find coins with a good detector also,, If there are coins in that streambed, the source cant be far away. Wish I lived closer Id go with ya just for the fun of it.
Les

 

[2nd2last]

hello, i know this post has been dead for some time. i live like 5 min from east granby and would be interested in going detecting along the salmon brook. it cant hurt any....any other locals want to help?

 

[cuzcosquirrel]

Man, sounds pretty far-fetched. I did a rough calculation of it if it was all gold and found it would be 2,200 pounds based on the 1 escudo. Coin would probably be the French D'or Ecu. With a million of these coins, you probably could have run the whole revolution for 3 to 4 years.

 

[ivan salis]

in 1779 france made gold coins * that to a untrained unknowing american finders mind seeing a 1779 date could easily be thought of as a "washington" figure rather than a frenchman --- see above---and the terms "dollars" is what we call money --if the finder assumed it to be a "american" coin --"tada"-- gold george washington dollars -- which could be in fact --french gold coins-- and the chest sizes might not be huge wooden boxes **** boxes full of gold are heavy for their size due to its dense nature .----- why were the guards killed yet bates spared ? inside job --very possible -- several men had to set up this operation -- since the tale says almost all the men were tracked down and killed at the time --except woosley who was caught but later got away to england (did bates help him escape possibly-- knowing woosley could never return of course )---woosley of course having taken part in treason and robbery with murder attached to it --had a date with a hangman if he ever returned to the area --so he could not return --so he sent others in his place to fetch up the treasure as his "partners" -- the indains killed then off it seems ** the factual letter written by the rev war soldier (newgate prison) stating he had not been paid his wages due to the theft of the shipment and with some of the details of the robbery -- lend some "backbone" to this tale --since it is indeed of the "time frame" in question---- the local papers --would as american loyalist "papers" would not speak of tories doing such harm due to fears of turning the people veiws into "we losing the war against the british --see the tories / british took all our money we were promised"--- and washington wouldn't want the french to know that the money entrusted to him --had been carelessly lost either. (so a news blackout of sorts)--- plus then just as they would now the USA govt wanted to hopefully be able to recover it lost money .--- and loose lips would not be help in that .------ think f it like this if a armored car with say 50 million from the us treasury in it was hijacked today and stolen away --and the govt later on caught up with a killed the group that did it --do you think the govt would want the local area papers printing "hints" on where local area people might find said "govt" cash?--- I think not -- and USA treasury money is USA treasury money now and "forever" -- just because it was lost in 1779 doesn't mean that as "LOST USA GOVT FUNDS" that the US govt would not claim it just as fast as if it was a hijacked armored car shipment from today--being its gold even fastermost likely something one should think of very carefully be going "public" if one should find said loot.

the 2 to 2 1/2 million figure given as its value was most likely the converted worth at todays gold values .

I would research as throughly as possible to make sure the events are solid -- once I was sure that the tale is "historically valid"--- knowing that gold is heavy and thus slow to move and that they had a limited amount of time to do this -- which means they also had a "limited range" of how far they could travel and also knowing the local terrian would be taken into account -- now the area of the "found" coins tip off if valid -- needs to be checked up on very closely as they either crossed the river (loosing a few coins as they did so)-- at or just above where the coins were found or the coin stash or part of it at least is buried up stream of the spot where they were found .

 

[cuzcosquirrel]

Missed a conversion factor: 1,100 pounds of gold. In 80 pound chests= 14 2-man movable chests. I would say the chest would be about 40" long and be like other camp chests/strong boxes. Well, at least it is physicly possible to get them onto two wagons.

I thought the troops were paid in redeemable vouchers. This much gold I would think would be used to back up credit and pay off vouchers or paper money as they came in. You could have probably run a whole state's treasury on this type of reserve.