✅ SOLVED Great Seal cap badge?

[invent4hir]

Hi all, after a few hours of looking I think this is a Great Seal cap badge - and although many seen on-line are similar - none were an exact match. Too many variations in the chest shield, tail, etc. I'd appreciate if someone could provide a positive ID/photo, website, or book. Provided enough detail can be obtained, my goal is to offer this to the local historical society in a educational display case like the last picture.

Note: the leg on the right in the first picture is bent. Other than that the badge is flat. There appears to be 2 places on the reverse where attachments may have been: 1) just below the neck and 2) center of the wreath at top. No markings appear.

 

[Digger54]

Look up "Korean War Era US Air Force USAF Field Grade Officer Service Cap". Looks like a close match to me.

 

[invent4hir]

Look up "Korean War Era US Air Force USAF Field Grade Officer Service Cap". Looks like a close match to me.

Digger54, thanks for the tip.

 

[Retired Sarge]

Visor Cap eagles can be a nightmare to ID the period made and by whom. You have authorized vendors, commercial vendors, and theater made ones.

You'll drive yourself nuts and blind narrowing these badges down.

Ways to ID:

Tail feather shape.
Shield postion.
Shape of banner.
Banner connection points.
Shape of arrows.
Shape of olive branches.
Shape of wreath with stars.
Shape and spread of the wings.
Shape and spread of the feet.

 

[invent4hir]

Visor Cap eagles can be a nightmare to ID the period made and by whom. You have authorized vendors, commercial vendors, and theater made ones.

You'll drive yourself nuts and blind narrowing these badges down.

Ways to ID:

Tail feather shape.
Shield postion.
Shape of banner.
Banner connection points.
Shape of arrows.
Shape of olive branches.
Shape of wreath with stars.
Shape and spread of the wings.
Shape and spread of the feet.

Retired Sarge, very WELL said! Spent a few more hours yesterday searching and learned most of that the hard way. Due to its size. I even began to wonder if it was a kid's version. Back in 2021 I spoke to a 103-year old woman who grew up on the farm where it was found. While her older brother was a Tech Sgt in the Army during WWII, she had a younger brother who would've been a tween at that time. If it was a service issue, perhaps the older brother gave it to the younger. Otherwise, the younger may have gotten it as part of a costume. Just goes to show, finding the artifact is the easy part, figuring out its story(s) is more challenging. That said, including the story(s) in the display case - is what brings the artifact to life - when it is shared with elementary school kids through senior citizens.

Can you recommend one or more books and/or websites with pictures and info about these?

 

[Retired Sarge]

Retired Sarge, very WELL said! Spent a few more hours yesterday searching and learned most of that the hard way. Due to its size. I even began to wonder if it was a kid's version. Back in 2021 I spoke to a 103-year old woman who grew up on the farm where it was found. While her older brother was a Tech Sgt in the Army during WWII, she had a younger brother who would've been a tween at that time. If it was a service issue, perhaps the older brother gave it to the younger. Otherwise, the younger may have gotten it as part of a costume. Just goes to show, finding the artifact is the easy part, figuring out its story(s) is more challenging. That said, including the story(s) in the display case - is what brings the artifact to life - when it is shared with elementary school kids through senior citizens.

Can you recommend one or more books and/or websites with pictures and info about these?

You can always check out USMilitariaforum.com. Just a heads up they start a system upgrade on the 21st and will be down for a few days.

 

[invent4hir]

You can always check out USMilitariaforum.com. Just a heads up they start a system upgrade on the 21st and will be down for a few days.

Retired Sarge, thanks - I'll check the website out. Also thought about trying to find a local military museum and/or Army surplus store...

 

[Retired Sarge]

Retired Sarge, thanks - I'll check the website out. Also thought about trying to find a local military museum and/or Army surplus store...

You mentioned size in your first post. Some information for you regarding that.

The male and female version of the visor cap badge came in different sizes. The male officer's insignia is 2 3/8 inches in height, with the female officer’s insignia is 1 5/8 inches.

Granted there were taller ones until the sizes and design/appearance became standardized.

Also there was a two piece enlisted version of the badge. The eagle attached to a solid disk. At some point they did away with the disc and just put a ring around the eagle.

Yes the evolution of these hat badges can be confusing.

 

[invent4hir]

You mentioned size in your first post. Some information from you regarding that.

The male and female version of the visor cap badge came in different sizes. The male officer's insignia is 2 3/8 inches in height, with the female officer’s insignia is 1 5/8 inches.

Granted there were taller ones until the sizes and design/appearance became standardized.

Also there was a two piece enlisted version of the badge. The eagle attached to a solid disk. At some point they did away with the disc and just put a ring around the eagle.

Yes the evolution of these hat badges can be confusing.

Retired Sarge, thanks for the added info. The height of the one found is 1 5/16" -- so shorter than either the male or female officer's insignia. Wonder how tall those for enlisted were?

 

[Retired Sarge]

I think the disc it attaches to is approximately 1 1/2 inches. The eagle would be just a tad smaller.

Here's an example of the later one piece eagle on the disc to give you an idea of sizes.

 

[invent4hir]

I think the disc it attaches to is approximately 1 1/2 inches. The eagle would be juat a tad smaller.

Here's an example of the later one piece eagle on the disc to give you an idea of sizes.

View attachment 2260133

Retired Sarge, thanks for the diameter. I'd consider 1 5/16" a tad smaller than the 1 1/2" disc - but will confirm by scaling the disc in the top right corner - then measuring the height of the Great Seal. Assuming it works out, that combined w/ the fact that the young man who would enlist in early 1941 still resided w/ his parents on the farm per the 1940 Census - points to the enlisted version and most likely his given none of his other brothers served in the military. That gives much needed context to the artifact, so will mark the thread solved. I'll keep looking for an exact match to all the characteristics you mentioned earlier, but will try to stop short of driving myself nuts.

 

[Retired Sarge]

Retired Sarge, thanks for the diameter. I'd consider 1 5/16" a tad smaller than the 1 1/2" disc - but will confirm by scaling the disc in the top right corner - then measuring the height of the Great Seal. Assuming it works out, that combined w/ the fact that the young man who would enlist in early 1941 still resided w/ his parents on the farm per the 1940 Census - points to the enlisted version and most likely his given none of his other brothers served in the military. That gives much needed context to the artifact, so will mark the thread solved. I'll keep looking for an exact match to all the characteristics you mentioned earlier, but will try to stop short of driving myself nuts.

Good deal Boss, glad I could help a bit. Wish you luck in narrowing it down to a similar example.

 

[invent4hir]

In the pic on the left I originally scaled the disc to 1 1/2" and sure enough the height of the Great Seal was about 1 5/16" (blue line). In the middle pic, I scaled the artifact found to its 1 5/16" height, then outlined of the left side in white. In the right pic, I transferred the outline to the disc, and while the shape of the tail, shield, leaves, and some other features differ - the overall height agrees. The group of 3 pics were enlarged to make it easier to see...

 

[invent4hir]

Good deal Boss, glad I could help a bit. Wish you luck in narrowing it down to a similar example.

Retired Sarge, kudos to you and Digger54 for helping solve!

 

[invent4hir]

The day after marking this thread solved, I found a close visual match (right). The shape & position of the shield, tail, leg feathers, attaching points, etc look identical. According to the facebook post, the match is marked Meyer Metal on the back with the NS Meyer shield. The post goes onto say Meyer Metal is a high end type of Meyer product from before WW2, so 20s to 30s is about right. Others chime in and say WWII. Either way, it is consistent with the service record of the former resident showing he enlisted in the U.S. Army in early 1941 as a Private and eventually made it to Tech Sgt during WW II.

 

[Retired Sarge]

The day after marking this thread solved, I found a close visual match (right). The shape & position of the shield, tail, leg feathers, attaching points, etc look identical. According to the facebook post, the match is marked Meyer Metal on the back with the NS Meyer shield. The post goes onto say Meyer Metal is a high end type of Meyer product from before WW2, so 20s to 30s is about right. Others chime in and say WWII. Either way, it is consistent with the service record of the former resident showing he enlisted in the U.S. Army in early 1941 as a Private and eventually made it to Tech Sgt during WW II.

Good deal, glad you found a match. Now you need to take two Tylenol for the headache/eye ache and rest those eyes.

 

[invent4hir]

Good deal, glad you found a match. Now you need to take two Tylenol for the headache/eye ache and rest those eyes.

Retired Sarge, thanks. What is bizarre is I found after just a few minutes using a PC at the local library rather than at home. Had I known that in the beginning, it would prevented the head/eye ache. Just glad for the happy ending. Time to go out & find another mystery!

 

[Retired Sarge]

Retired Sarge, thanks. What is bizarre is I found after just a few minutes using a PC at the local library rather than at home. Had I known that in the beginning, it would prevented the head/eye ache. Just glad for the happy ending. Time to go out & find another mystery!

Look forward to your next finds.....