Help identifying

[Grandlaker_NEOK]

Western Kansas creek find.

 

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[Tdog]

That's a tough one friend. Is that a rock or a fossilized critter of some sort.

 

[rock]

Well dont get mad but did you add the arrow design cause it looks awful fresh to me

 

[rock]

Well dont get mad but did you add the arrow design cause it looks awful fresh to me

Also does either of them holes go all the way through or do they connect?

 

[The Grim Reaper]

In the Ft Ancient culture of my area here in southern Ohio that symbol represents a Turkey Track. It is found on Sandstone Discs mostly but can be found on other items. No FA in Kansas so not sure if it has the same meaning.

That said, the engraving looks really fresh and doesn't match the patina on the rest of the piece. If it is supposed to be a Pipe, then where is the stem hole? I see the "bowl" and a hole on each side but no stem to smoke from. My best guess is a modern incense burner perhaps. Curious piece but not convinced it's ancient.

 

[Tdog]

I noticed it also has little tiny symmetrical lines all over it--as small as the lines in a fingerprint.

 

[arrow86]

Odd for sure ,in my opinion modern project by somebody killing time

 

[Grandlaker_NEOK]

Hey guys,

First off thanks for the feedback so far! This piece belongs to a friend of mine he found it himself in a creek in western Kansas approximately 17 yrs ago. He recently found out about my passion for artifacts and brought it today for me to look at. The first thing I noticed was the turkey track looking fresh and that it had very fine lines that resembled fingerprints. It has a hole at the top approximately 3/4 at the top that becomes narrower the deeper it goes halfway down on the side there is a second hole that is about a 1/4 they are connected. It is very smooth and has very nice point on it would consider this the back the front end is flat. He also thought the when he found it that the color of the turkey track was odd. I 100% believe that he acquired this piece if I thought in any way it was not legitimate I would not waste you good folks time. I'm looking forward to more input it is a fascinating piece that I would love to know the history or culture that it came from.

 

[Kray Gelder]

The "finger prints" are grinder ( power tool ) marks. Whoever crafted this curiosity didn't take the time to buff them out. This is a modern creation made with modern tools.

 

[joshuaream]

It looks like a decorative Plains Indian War club head, possibly tourist material from the 1900's. (Toss in a peace-pipe feature to make it extra special.) It would have been mounted on handle, wrapped in leather and probably had some paint & feathers on it.

From the 1930's-1960's gas stations, rest stops, restaurants and motels along highways in the Plains and SW states sold souvenirs (grey ghost blades, beaded stuff, pottery, genuine bow & arrows, cow boy & indian stuff, clubs, etc.) to tourists. Not sure how it ended up in a creek, but as others have pointed out it doesn't look ancient to me.

It might not even be that old. I know I've bought my kids some annoying souvenirs that I regretted on the road trip home, maybe this one went out the window?

 

[Grandlaker_NEOK]

Although the feedback is interesting so far i must say you guys are breaking my heart lol! I would never dream that it is not ancient but that is why i am here for everyone's knowledge. More input would be greatly appreciated i don't really wanna give up yet!

 

[MAMucker]

Buyer beware! Found an image online that resembles this item:https://images.app.goo.gl/yTzSSW9a3RJnRz2CA

 

[ToddsPoint]

In the final pic, it is obvious that the hole was made with a primitive core drill and abrasive powder. That's why there is a little dimple at the bottom. No one uses that system to drill rock in modern times. Gary

 

[Grandlaker_NEOK]

I totally agree Gary! Do you have any explanation on the color of the turkey track? If you look anywhere else that there is chips or wear they have the same coloring. Im not sure why everyone was so quick to assume that it's a modern piece. Thanks for taking the time to really look at it!

 

[MAMucker]

The HOLE is not the only identifier!!!

That can be and is being faked by educated duplicators.

You can’t ignore the other incompatible observations made by experts here: the grinding-wheel marks, the recent hen scratches (turkey track) or the lack of patina/modern staining in the score marks and grooves.
https://www.arrowheads.com/authentication/600-artifact-or-artifake

 

[MAMucker]

Here’s a informative read on fakes and reproductions:
https://forums.arrowheads.com/forum...ons-gc95/105651-fakes-frauds-what-to-look-for

 

[Grandlaker_NEOK]

Mamucker,

Is there a reason why you are trying to smear my post? I've only been on here a few times and everyone has been very kind and informative. Your first comment you said BUYER BEWARE.... What exactly are you trying to say?

 

[MAMucker]

Sure,

No smear intended. Thanks for posting this and again, welcome to the forum.

I’m saying, that at your request, a number of members here (with exceptional knowledge) have given you good observations. After reviewing the photos, there remains unexplained red flags.

I’m sure that your friend wants to hear the positives and the negatives. The articles that I linked in my comments were meant to be instructive and informative.

I liked the “drilled” hole structure right off. Gary made a good observation about that. But, it’s not the only factor. The surface of that item has too many suspect details to ignore.

JMO

 

[filmiracl]

I'm no expert, but in my opinion it's not an ancient artifact but a project someone was probably working on and gave up. Those lines are obviously modern tooling marks. It looks like it's supposed to be a pipe, but as noted earlier, it's missing the hole you would use to smoke from it. The larger hole does look reed drilled, but that doesn't mean it is... Or maybe someone took the time to really do it that way. The etching is clearly new. There are more things sayings it's not old than there are saying it is.

 

[Huzzah!]

Thanks for posting Grandlaker! Certainly an educational piece--for us all.

The hole looks like someone bored it with a stone/multi-use bit on a modern drill and then with the same bit ground-out the top to be a little wider. I'm seeing some pretty fresh surface down in that hole--no patina. Whenever I've found a rock--artifact or not--in a creek with a hole in it (esp. one so long and narrow) the hole is usually filled with debris and the colors of the surface don't look fresh from sitting in the creek all those years after I've cleaned it out. And yes those print marks are 100% from a modern grinding tool.