help interpreting this map ?

[Pa.Billy]

Hi everyone,I made one attempt this morning at finding a homestead but came up with nothing. This is fun trying to interpret these old maps onto the present day maps,I feel like a detective :-) I thought maybe it would be fun to run this past all of you. This one is made tough by the fact that the old map (right) totally left out that small valley indicated by the blue arrow.
As one point of reference the 2 red arrows indicate where I successfully found another homestead (left) present day map. Now the one am trying to locate is that homestead indicated at that small black square pointed to by the green arrow. Would anyone like to take an educated guess as to where this dwelling is on the present day map ? If you want you can download the map(s) to your hard drive and put a mark on the map where you think it's at and then post it here in this thread.Closest guess gets the first 1800's silver coin detected from the site :-)

 

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[Pa.Billy]

ok my first guess which proved wrong this morning was where I placed that orangish looking X My new thinking is maybe where I placed the pink X Do you think am getting closer ?

 

[Yeasty]

Download Google Earth, find the site, and overlay the topo map over it. Then you can get exact coordinates of the desired location. You can load the coordinates in a GPS and it will take you right there.

Pete

 

[relichunters]

Wow I cannot read that map

 

[EDDE]

http://www.softpedia.com/get/Others/Home-Education/TerraClient.shtml
TERRA CLIENT download
has an overlay with topo /photo or vise versa(photo or topo only)

 

[Pa.Billy]

thanks for your help everyone,it's been informative.Relicman,sometimes it's so funny sometimes how the old timers making these old maps will over emphasize a valley's size and then here in this case totally omit it ! I won't have it have it any other way though,it just keeps me on my toes :-)

 

[EDDE]

 

[Pa.Billy]

that's sneaky Edde,I see what you did,you googled Croft,Pa right ? That's not the same Croft,or at least i don't think it is.....in fact I don't know why Croft appears on that map. There's no town there now,I don't think there ever was.Sometimes these "titles" appear on these maps for some reason.Maybe back then 2 houses was enough to name it a town ?!

 

[Pa.Billy]

thanks for that idea swamphunter,I'll check that out also.......I often wonder how accurate it is to match up elevations on these old/new maps ?!

 

[StogieJim]

Hi,

I took the two maps into Goggle Earth and registered the old to the new (you don't have to know where these areas are on the earth). Then digitized the roads, stream, houses, and a few odd marks on the old map (oldVector.jpg). Then I turned off the old map image so that the old: roads, stream, and houses overlay the new map (newOldVector.jpg). This is an easy process. Please PM if you'd like more details. As you see, the roads line up quite well and the stream isn't too far off. But, as has been pointed out above the contour lines are not very good.

Good hunting,

Jim

 

[Pa.Billy]

wow stogie that's way too cool ! I don't know how you tracked down that location. Can you give me a link to the specific google earth site that you use ? So by your calculations the homestead is a little further north then what the rest of us is thinking. I was going to get around to checking this location in a few days but now I think I better get out there today lol

 

[Eu_citzen]

I think Jim got it right.

Also Billy think and look at the house close to the river, he wants to stay dry under floods so that position seems good.

I have lots of practice on reading maps, thats the only thing I rely on for good places here.

cheers,
Eu

 

[Pa.Billy]

here's my gps info from yesterday of this area.I didn't see this old road that goes by the homestead.It was early in the morning and everything was dripping wet from the t-storms the night before so I didn't give the area a good looking over.I was completely soaked when I got back to the car.The homestead that I successfully found is marked here as number 17 number 19 was a geocache that I visited ! and waypoint 20 was where I projected the homestead to be.Didn't find any evidence at all in the area that I walked through.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

You might also want to consider that the old map's "X" is not a home-site to begin with. Yes I know that black dot is supposed to be a habitation, but sometimes........ I've seen on our old topo maps out west, a lazy topographer might just put a black dot where a cistern was or something. Or would put an "x" and "ruins" for nothing other than what was only just WWII era quanson hut pads. In other words, you are dealing with some on-site hikers interpretation of what the lay-of-the-land was 80-ish years ago.

If you want to get real technical, you can access the archives of the USGS in your area, and read the original note-takers journals/notes, as he prepared his work. Here in CA, that's at Menlo Park (south of SF).

 

[Pa.Billy]

Hi,

I took the two maps into Goggle Earth and registered the old to the new (you don't have to know where these areas are on the earth). Then digitized the roads, stream, houses, and a few odd marks on the old map (oldVector.jpg). Then I turned off the old map image so that the old: roads, stream, and houses overlay the new map (newOldVector.jpg). This is an easy process. Please PM if you'd like more details. As you see, the roads line up quite well and the stream isn't too far off. But, as has been pointed out above the contour lines are not very good.

Good hunting,

Jim

I was on that road as indicated by my gps data which is just to the east of where you have the homestead as being.I'm talking about that double broken line on the recent map which means a jeep trail or un-improved dirt road.So that would have put me just about 50-100 yards east of the homestead.

 

[Pa.Billy]

lol,those street names were up there for about 2 minutes before I caught it and over wrote the file.You must have seen it in that time !

 

[StogieJim]

Hi again,

What I demonstrated above is very easy. Anyone can do it! You might have to upgrade GE to GEplus (only 20$/yr) to be able to import imagery but, it's worth it. PM with questions and I'll help you through it.

As I said, I don't know where this area is. Google earth lets you import imagery and you don't have to register it to the earth. I just let GE hold the images while registered one to the other.

I just spotted something, notice the house site you're after is on the 1800 contour line in both maps. You might try walking out the trail and when you get to 1800' elevation on the GPS turn left and pace out the estimated distance. (this might just be a coincidence and the accuracy of the placement of the house in the old map is probably not very accurate).

Anyway, best of luck and keep us advised of your efforts.

Jim

 

[Pa.Billy]

thanks a lot for all your help Jim,it's been a cool learning experience as I bet it has been for others as well ! I will purchase GE plus right away. When I saw "Image 2008 Terrametrics" on your maps i thought that you had located this area on another website.
I think you meant 1900ft elevation..... but on one map you have the location as 1880 and on the other as 1920 if am not mistaken.

 

[StogieJim]

Yes, I had the elevations wrong. When you get GEplus installed, let me know and I'll tell you everything I know about image-ground and image-image registration.

Jim

 

[Pa.Billy]

You might also want to consider that the old map's "X" is not a home-site to begin with. Yes I know that black dot is supposed to be a habitation, but sometimes........ I've seen on our old topo maps out west, a lazy topographer might just put a black dot where a cistern was or something. Or would put an "x" and "ruins" for nothing other than what was only just WWII era quanson hut pads. In other words, you are dealing with some on-site hikers interpretation of what the lay-of-the-land was 80-ish years ago.

If you want to get real technical, you can access the archives of the USGS in your area, and read the original note-takers journals/notes, as he prepared his work. Here in CA, that's at Menlo Park (south of SF).

thanks for your input Tom,I bet that could be the case sometimes. A couple weeks ago I was exploring a hillside where the old map showed a dwelling.I made 3 trips there,the hillside was really rocky,not big rocks but mean to walk over. There was a freaking large spring there coming out of the ground at about the site of the dwelling on the old map,it must have been about 10 yards wide.Not a stone out of place that would have suggested human intervention. About 400 yds away the tiniest spring you could imagine and there were 3 or 4 stones holding back the earth made by someone.It was less rocky around this tiny spring,I got my detector out and no metal around.Not a trace of a foundation. I'll probably go back some day because I love a mystery like that to solve.