Help optimising search a 120 year old house

[Aubern]

Hello friends!

Recent joiner to the forum.

Here’s my story:

A year ago we bought a 120 year old heritage-listed (Australian term for ‘can’t be renovated’!…more or less) house in Northern NSW, Australia.

Now, 120 years ago, the primary commercial wealth drivers in Northern NSW, Australia, were timber and dairy production.

The fellow who built the house we bought owned the local timber mill 120 years ago, was mayor of Byron Shire Council 3 times (for those of you who are non-Aussies, Byron Shire is home to Byron Bay, one of Australia’s now top international tourist destinations, and the home of the one-and-only Chris Hemsworth aka Thor), and by all accounts and rumours, even ~70 years later after his death, was quite wealthy.

But here’s the thing. Apparently, no-one ever saw his cash (back then in Australia, cash was predominantly gold, silver and coins, with bank notes not really coming into circulation until 1910), and when he died, some of the older locals in town who still remain tell stories of people coming up to the empty house to try and find his money.

The house is built out of 150+ year old hardwood - the floors, the walls, the roof. The walls have subsequently been covered over with gyprock, whilst the floors and ceiling remain unemcumbered.

The house is a typical Australian ‘Queenslander’ , which means it sits on wooden pylons 3-4 feet off the ground, and so under-house access is pretty good.

My question is, to search the wall cavities, and where the walls meet the floors, what is the ideal detecting equipment for this, factoring that we would be detecting through very old hardwood, and gyprock?

Ideally I would like to get equipment that I can then also use under the house, to deep scan through the dirt.

If you’ve read this far, thank you and well done! Hopefully it’s been and interesting read, and any suggestions you can offer to help are much appreciated.

 

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[Chiltepin]

I

Hello friends!

Recent joiner to the forum.

Here’s my story:

A year ago we bought a 120 year old heritage-listed (Australian term for ‘can’t be renovated’!…more or less) house in Northern NSW, Australia.

Now, 120 years ago, the primary commercial wealth drivers in Northern NSW, Australia, were timber and dairy production.

The fellow who built the house we bought owned the local timber mill 120 years ago, was mayor of Byron Shire Council 3 times (for those of you who are non-Aussies, Byron Shire is home to Byron Bay, one of Australia’s now top international tourist destinations, and the home of the one-and-only Chris Hemsworth aka Thor), and by all accounts and rumours, even ~70 years later after his death, was quite wealthy.

But here’s the thing. Apparently, no-one ever saw his cash (back then in Australia, cash was predominantly gold, silver and coins, with bank notes not really coming into circulation until 1910), and when he died, some of the older locals in town who still remain tell stories of people coming up to the empty house to try and find his money.

The house is built out of 150+ year old hardwood - the floors, the walls, the roof. The walls have subsequently been covered over with gyprock, whilst the floors and ceiling remain unemcumbered.

The house is a typical Australian ‘Queenslander’ , which means it sits on wooden pylons 3-4 feet off the ground, and so under-house access is pretty good.

My question is, to search the wall cavities, and where the walls meet the floors, what is the ideal detecting equipment for this, factoring that we would be detecting through very old hardwood, and gyprock?

Ideally I would like to get equipment that I can then also use under the house, to deep scan through the dirt.

If you’ve read this far, thank you and well done! Hopefully it’s been and interesting read, and any suggestions you can offer to help are much appreciated.

Is there a barn on the property?
That would be the location I personally would search first.

 

[releventchair]

Safety first!

Very slow eyes can help.
Attic or lowest floor to start. Your choice! IF structure is not dangerous.

A mismatched board , even only by length deserves a closer look.
A repair (even a tin over a mousehole) , a fitting different that the balance (screw vs nail for example.
But most of all , look for staining. Even faint staining from oil off fingers.
Discolored wood edge from friction maybe?

With gloved hand and healthy respect for splinters and spiders , check tops of doors for holes or slots. The tops of places you need to reach for blindly or nooks and crannys deserve attention.
Bottom of stairwell , check boards around the bottom for a hollow behind/under the stairs.

Wardrobes may have been used instead of closets. If closets , check for a board that was removed and replaced.
If wardrobes . look for skid marks from one being pivoted to access a hidden board or panel.

All things you'd likely think of if you were hiding something.

Fires were/are real.
Hiding stuff outside the house insures diverse options.
Under thresholds of outbuildings. In or near corners of structures. (Inside the structure or outside).

Odd loose brick or rock in a wall?
Old carriage block or stone in the front yard?
Old well or handpump outside?

Places you could handle something without others seeing you can be good.
No cellar? Then maybe the attic saw more use.

Slow and patient.
The master bedroom would suit the previous wealthy owner.
Plank under the beds foot would be hard to move when he was sleeping on it!

If you look under the house floor look for anything odd or out of place against the floor.
A wood or metal box attached to the floor between joists can allow access from above , and more room for storage than just under the floor covering above.

Chimney flue ledge?
Window casing?
Non functional outlet cover?
Under a cupboard bottom?
Behind a piece of wood between cupboard doors on it's backside?
A thicker stud or board than those it is partnered with?

You could even study space within rooms. Is one non windowed wall missing a couple feet on one end? How would a false wall work?

 

[MiddenMonster]

Fire departments use equipment that can detect heat/fires inside walls that can't be seen. If you can get your hands on something like that, wait until an extreme temperature day, i.e. very hot or very cold and scan all your walls. Metals will retain and reflect heat differently than will wood and other non-metals. You can also get what the Border Patrol in the U.S. calls a "buster". You slide it over surfaces and it registers differences in density. They use it to find drugs and other contraband in vehicles with pretty good results. It's basically a stud finder on steroids.

 

[pepperj]

Fire departments use equipment that can detect heat/fires inside walls that can't be seen. If you can get your hands on something like that, wait until an extreme temperature day, i.e. very hot or very cold and scan all your walls. Metals will retain and reflect heat differently than will wood and other non-metals. You can also get what the Border Patrol in the U.S. calls a "buster". You slide it over surfaces and it registers differences in density. They use it to find drugs and other contraband in vehicles with pretty good results. It's basically a stud finder on steroids.

Infrared 📷 will do that for you.

 

[Aubern]

Safety first!

Very slow eyes can help.
Attic or lowest floor to start. Your choice! IF structure is not dangerous.

A mismatched board , even only by length deserves a closer look.
A repair (even a tin over a mousehole) , a fitting different that the balance (screw vs nail for example.
But most of all , look for staining. Even faint staining from oil off fingers.
Discolored wood edge from friction maybe?

With gloved hand and healthy respect for splinters and spiders , check tops of doors for holes or slots. The tops of places you need to reach for blindly or nooks and crannys deserve attention.
Bottom of stairwell , check boards around the bottom for a hollow behind/under the stairs.

Wardrobes may have been used instead of closets. If closets , check for a board that was removed and replaced.
If wardrobes . look for skid marks from one being pivoted to access a hidden board or panel.

All things you'd likely think of if you were hiding something.

Fires were/are real.
Hiding stuff outside the house insures diverse options.
Under thresholds of outbuildings. In or near corners of structures. (Inside the structure or outside).

Odd loose brick or rock in a wall?
Old carriage block or stone in the front yard?
Old well or handpump outside?

Places you could handle something without others seeing you can be good.
No cellar? Then maybe the attic saw more use.

Slow and patient.
The master bedroom would suit the previous wealthy owner.
Plank under the beds foot would be hard to move when he was sleeping on it!

If you look under the house floor look for anything odd or out of place against the floor.
A wood or metal box attached to the floor between joists can allow access from above , and more room for storage than just under the floor covering above.

Chimney flue ledge?
Window casing?
Non functional outlet cover?
Under a cupboard bottom?
Behind a piece of wood between cupboard doors on it's backside?
A thicker stud or board than those it is partnered with?

You could even study space within rooms. Is one non windowed wall missing a couple feet on one end? How would a false wall work?

Thank you! Such a comprehensive rundown. You’ve got me even more excited to start now 😂 Will check back in with any updates!

 

[Aubern]

Infrared 📷 will do that for you.

Smart idea, thanks!

 

[Aubern]

Fire departments use equipment that can detect heat/fires inside walls that can't be seen. If you can get your hands on something like that, wait until an extreme temperature day, i.e. very hot or very cold and scan all your walls. Metals will retain and reflect heat differently than will wood and other non-metals. You can also get what the Border Patrol in the U.S. calls a "buster". You slide it over surfaces and it registers differences in density. They use it to find drugs and other contraband in vehicles with pretty good results. It's basically a stud finder on steroids.

Very cool, thanks for the steer 👍

 

[Aubern]

I

Is there a barn on the property?
That would be the location I personally would search first.

No barn

 

[PetesPockets55]

All are great suggestions and hope they lead to lots of postings here.
Seems to me the jewel in Relevantchairs reply was the part about the master bedroom (keep it close) or floor space "missing" when a tape measure is put to the layout.

I have a friend who bought a house locally that thinks the previous owner covered over an opening to hide some important information/papers from local treasure dives!

Best of success with the search.

 

[ARC]

I will join in with a few questions...

Property size ? .... Is the property "close" to other properties ? ... was it close to any in the period of time of the said owner ?

IOW's... is the property in plain sight OF OTHER properties ? and OR WAS IT at the time of said occupancy of the person who supposedly hid these items ?

(there is a direct correlation to the answers to the above questions and area(s) to begin searching.)

 

[MiddenMonster]

I will join in with a few questions...

And I'll add a question to those: If you find treasure of some kind, what are the laws in Australia about keeping it?

 

[ARC]

And I'll add a question to those: If you find treasure of some kind, what are the laws in Australia about keeping it?

To be allowed to keep it under the 'finders keepers' rule you must make reasonable inquiries to find the owner, or turn it in to the police. If you hand the money in, and the real owner never comes forward, you may even be allowed to keep it.Apr 10, 2014

BUT... beings the OP OWNS the land in question... i am not sure if anything applies.

 

[MiddenMonster]

To be allowed to keep it under the 'finders keepers' rule you must make reasonable inquiries to find the owner, or turn it in to the police. If you hand the money in, and the real owner never comes forward, you may even be allowed to keep it.

When I see words like, "make reasonable inquiries to find the owner" my spidey sense really kicks in. To me that means the courts have all the power and latitude to do whatever they want. In those seven words there is so much nebulousity that I would be hesitant to alert the authorities at all. What is "reasonable"? What are "inquiries"? What defines "owner"? In the U.S., depending on what state you live in it may be "reasonable" to shoot someone breaking in your house. In another state you would be charged with murder. Is an "inquiry" doing an Internet search for whoever owned the property when the money was supposedly hidden? Is it tracking down the descendants of everyone whoever owned the property? Paying an attorney a good chunk of coin to do the work? And who is the "owner"? Is it the actual person who hid the treasure? Their descendants? Any surviving kin, no matter how distant? If it is found that the person who hid the treasure owed money to the government, is the government the "owner"? I'm seeing a situation where the government is going to come at you and force you into hiring an attorney to defend your claim, and you spend so much fighting the government that you end up settling for a fraction of what you find, then they tax you for the part they let you keep.

 

[boogeyman]

When I see words like, "make reasonable inquiries to find the owner" my spidey sense really kicks in. To me that means the courts have all the power and latitude to do whatever they want. In those seven words there is so much nebulousity that I would be hesitant to alert the authorities at all. What is "reasonable"? What are "inquiries"? What defines "owner"? In the U.S., depending on what state you live in it may be "reasonable" to shoot someone breaking in your house. In another state you would be charged with murder. Is an "inquiry" doing an Internet search for whoever owned the property when the money was supposedly hidden? Is it tracking down the descendants of everyone whoever owned the property? Paying an attorney a good chunk of coin to do the work? And who is the "owner"? Is it the actual person who hid the treasure? Their descendants? Any surviving kin, no matter how distant? If it is found that the person who hid the treasure owed money to the government, is the government the "owner"? I'm seeing a situation where the government is going to come at you and force you into hiring an attorney to defend your claim, and you spend so much fighting the government that you end up settling for a fraction of what you find, then they tax you for the part they let you keep.

Look back through the old old posts myself and a couple others have posted on building search techniques.

First off you don't need a top of the line machine. My favorite is a 1970sTR. REASON being the shaft extends out to where I can sweep ceilings with my hands at belly level. Good gloves, plastic kneepads, a headlamp on a plastic Helmut. Probes made from bicycle spokes. Go into a room, sit down in the center for a bit. Take note of looks out of place. Since you own the place, don't rush. Trust your gut 90% of the time if it stands out just a little it:s worth checking?

If you have it over there, use MEK or Goofoff to smooth your probe holes till they can:t be seen.

Look for nail holes that seem worn. A lot of times they are a push latch.

Have a good hunt! You've got a lot of fun ahead!

 

[Aubern]

I will join in with a few questions...

Property size ? .... Is the property "close" to other properties ? ... was it close to any in the period of time of the said owner ?

IOW's... is the property in plain sight OF OTHER properties ? and OR WAS IT at the time of said occupancy of the person who supposedly hid these items ?

(there is a direct correlation to the answers to the above questions and area(s) to begin searching.)

About 1,000sqm, house ~50% of that. The house wasn’t close to other properties until modern times. Only in sight of one other property ‘back in the day’

 

[ARC]

About 1,000sqm, house ~50% of that. The house wasn’t close to other properties until modern times. Only in sight of one other property ‘back in the day’

The "in sight" one... where is it in relation to yours ?

Front ? behind ? side ?

(should have added this / these questions to above)

 

[cw0909]

adding to the questions, have you looked for an obituary for the man
there may be descendants that may be entitled to the find, I read this
not sure it would apply to you

Finders Keepers? - Lawyers Conveyancing

In the real world people sometimes do discover long-forgotten money or valuable objects. Often lawyers then become involved to help determine who gets to keep this 'buried treasure' because, unfortunately, the legal position is rarely so simple as 'finders keepers'

lawyersconveyancing.com.au

found a couple links to search for obits

Australian death notices, funeral notice and obituaries

Australian death notices, funeral notices, obituaries and funeral directors can be quickly and easily found using the www.obits.com.au search facility.

www.obits.com.au

Search for Notices

Find death notices, funeral notices, obituaries and legal/probate notices in Australian newspapers.

ryersonindex.org

THE RYERSON INDEX

An index to death and funeral notices, and other death-type information, published in Australian newspapers from 1803 to the present

ryersonindex.org

Trove

Australia’s free online research portal. Trove is a collaboration between the National Library of Australia and hundreds of Partner organisations around Australia.

trove.nla.gov.au

 

[Tnmountains]

I think I would find the privy hole and dig it out. It will tell you the wealth of the individual by the bottles. What they bought. My house is 100 years old and in those days there were many closed up places not used. Dormers under steps basement coal shoot and coal room. I have many old coins doing renovations kicked under baseboards and cove mold.
Good luck!
Get a metal detector!

 

[ARC]

I think I would find the privy hole and dig it out. It will tell you the wealth of the individual by the bottles. What they bought. My house is 100 years old and in those days there were many closed up places not used. Dormers under steps basement coal shoot and coal room. I have many old coins doing renovations kicked under baseboards and cove mold.
Good luck!
Get a metal detector!

Although the privy idea is a good thought at determining "wealth"... and most often times true... i must also say that some of the biggest misers did not spend lavishly ... they hoarded it.
Anyone else known wealthy cheap arses ?... many times its because of their cheapness that made them in the end wealthy... and sometimes not liked at the same time... but none the less.

(TN likes bottles... :P )