Help solve a mystery of an unidentified woman found murdered (class ring JNHS 1917)

[q64ceo]

In 1974, two victims of murder were found after an anonymous tip led the police to their grave.

One of them was named Gustavous Lee Carmichael, a wanted criminal for armed robbery

The other, no one knows who she is. She used the alias "Lorraine Stahl".

There is are a few clues such as a telephone bill found with her, and a class ring found on her.



For nearly 50 years there has been a family out there who lost a sister, a mother who lost a daughter. This ring is the only clue we have right now. The telephone bill, those numbers after 50 years belong to other people now.

There is a chance that the ring is stolen. That is unknown. But this is the best lead we got.

Does anyone know what JNHS stands for? There are initials imprinted, so checking a graduation list and figuring out who this ring belongs to is possible. Jim Ned High School has been ruled out as the source of this ring.

If you would like to learn more about the case, you can Google Lorraine Stahl. The first hit will give you a good idea about the case.

[To the moderators, sorry if this is in the wrong area. If it is, please move it to the proper place. Thank you.]

 

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[mick56]

Just a suggestion, there is a site called Websleuth.com, where people try to solve older mysteries.

 

[Red-Coat]

Just a suggestion, there is a site called Websleuth.com, where people try to solve older mysteries.

The mystery has been running on websleuths.com (note websleuths is plural) for eight years.

 

[q64ceo]

Just a suggestion, there is a site called Websleuth.com, where people try to solve older mysteries.

We've been talking about it for years. We don't know what it means. We've Googled it countless times. We find rings similar to the JNHS ring. But still, nothing.

This is why I am here. A website like this with countless collectors of vintage artifacts could hold the answer.

 

[Mackaydon]

I'd concentrate on the phone bill.
The telephone company could tell you who had that number during the time of this event; especially, if they knew it was in a murder case. The company might be the key to the ID--and leading to the motive of the crime.
Don...

 

[q64ceo]

I'd concentrate on the phone bill.
The telephone company could tell you who had that number during the time of this event; especially, if they knew it was in a murder case. The company might be the key to the ID--and leading to the motive of the crime.
Don...

Pretty sure the investigating officers looked at that in 1974

 

[Mackaydon]

Personally, I make sure; then ask what was the follow-up to that inquiry.
Don..........(just an old ex-cop)

 

[Red-Coat]

The ring also has the initials ‘ILN’ engraved in script lettering on the inside.



Even if it were to be traced, there’s no guarantee that it has any real connection to the Jane Doe known as ‘Lorraine Stahl’ beyond the fact she was wearing it. If there is a connection, for a 1917 date, it would have to have belonged to an older family member or someone she held dear. She was known to have used a number of aliases, some derived from real people (as was the case for the ‘Lorraine Stahl alias), sometimes supported by fake or stolen documents.

Both of the people convicted of her murder (Richard DeFreitas and Donald Brant) insisted that they didn’t know who she really was. Only that they were profiteering by providing safe houses for criminals who needed to lie low. That was the case for Jane Doe and her companion… a convicted serial bank robber named Gustavous Lee Carmichael who was on the run, having escaped while in transit to a Federal court. The pair adopted the aliases Dirk and Lorraine Stahl, using documents provided by DeFreitas and stolen from a previous resident.

Here’s the record of calls found with her body:



At least three of the numbers can easily be traced from public records to specific addresses and the individuals who lived there at the time. probably the police were able to trace more of hem. It’s difficult to believe that if she made those calls herself (not proven) the police were unable to determine who she was unless the individuals receiving the calls were uncooperative or have provided an incomplete picture that they don’t yet want to make public. All that has been said so far is that they think she was from New York or Maine; they found an abandoned car in Hartford, CT with a Maine inspection sticker that they think she had been driving, using either Massachusetts or Maine Plates. And that they “may have found relatives in Tennessee, West Virginia, or the Carolinas”.

[I’m an aficionado of unsolved crimes…. a personal interest not related to finding loot]

 

[cw0909]

maybe this co. made the ring,also somewhere in the what is it threads
we have IDs on old class rings and in some cases the maker company
I couldnt find them so just did a google search and got this one
from the pdf....


The earliest record is a sales register for Bailey & Kitchen, 1832-1833,
listing customers’ last name in alphabetical order with sale reference
numbers. Files containing class rings contracts document purchases by
military academies and high schools and colleges. Custom design ledgers,
1910-1950, contain descriptions and artwork of pins, medals, and rings
for military and civilian organizations.
http://dla.library.upenn.edu/cocoon/dla/pacscl/ead.pdf?id=PACSCL_HML_2453

adding
robbins co. attleboro mass.


another resource
Jewelers' Circular
https://archive.org/search.php?query=Jewelers' Circular&sin=TXT
https://digitalcollections.nypl.org/search/index?utf8=✓&keywords=Jewelers'+Circular#/?scroll=4

 

[invent4hir]

Two things strike me about the phone bill, which have probably already been considered in the past 50 years:

1. Who is C. M. Fox Jr. - that the bill was addressed to? Also the phone number 609-888-1300 appearing above his name looks like a/his business phone number. The 609 area code puts it in central NJ. That is consistent w/ New Jersey Bell Telephone Company on the bill.

2. Based on the charges, the 3 calls to Nashville TN all on the same day, were the longest in duration. Were these personal or business calls. Did C. M. Fox Jr. make them?

 

[invent4hir]

My eyes must be getting worse. Even after enlarging the photo of the initials the first letter looks like an "F".

 

[Retired Sarge]

Have they submitted a DNA sample? Seeing that so many unknown people are being identified that way recently, due to the popularity of Geneology sites nowadays.

 

[DCMatt]

I looked at this for a little while:

Two things strike me about the phone bill, which have probably already been considered in the past 50 years:

1. Who is C. M. Fox Jr. - that the bill was addressed to? Also the phone number 609-888-1300 appearing above his name looks like a/his business phone number. The 609 area code puts it in central NJ. That is consistent w/ New Jersey Bell Telephone Company on the bill.

C. M. Fox Jr, according to a post on Websleuths, owned a bowling alley and bar.

2. Based on the charges, the 3 calls to Nashville TN all on the same day, were the longest in duration. Were these personal or business calls. Did C. M. Fox Jr. make them?

The Nashville calls are to a talent agency - possibly to provide live entertainment at the bar.

It's pretty clear that local law enforcement did a poor job with the investigation.

A car was found that, allegedly, belonged to the victim. It had a Maine state inspection sticker. In 1970, Maine stickers had a serial number which could have been used to track back to the inspection station to find the owner of the car.

There also was an additional phone bill found which was due January 7, 1971 - that is AFTER the murder - meaning the victim had been at C. M. Fox's business in the weeks prior to her murder.

 

[Red-Coat]

I believe the car (a green 1964 Oldsmobile) was ultimately traced as having been purchased in Bridgeport on 28th October 1970 and registered in Maine on 15th December to ‘David Skaggs’ with a fictitious address in Portland. This was one of many aliases known to have been used by Carmichael. The Jane Doe ‘Lorraine Stahl’ had also been seen driving it in the days leading up to the murders on 31st December.

Amateur sleuths have traced most of the numbers on the phone bill and presumably the police were able to do the same with less difficulty. The ‘C.M. Fox Jr’ on the bill is believed to be Charlie Fox… bowling alley and nightclub/music venue proprietor in and around Trenton NJ, including ‘White Horse Bowling’ and ‘The Frontier Room’. The Frontier Room especially had hostesses and dancing girls (perhaps euphemisms for ‘hooker’) and the police at the time were openly suggesting she was probably a prostitute. Perhaps Fox provided accommodation too for workers at his establishments, but those links would be dead ends if this Jane Doe was using one of her many aliases. It’s unlikely Fox would have known her real name.

Also, some of the numbers have possible connections to people in the entertainment industry potentially acting as talent agents for dancers and such. The kind of people you might perhaps contact if you were looking for work in a clip joint.

The issue still remains about what degree of connection she had to the ring. It might have simply been a bauble she picked up somewhere or was stolen. She was also wearing a cheap ring with a faux emerald and had a brooch or pendant, described as a “carved abstract ceremonial head”

 

[cw0909]

i dont know about the Websleuth group, found some details @
crimewatchers site, the site had links to doe & namus

detailed info @ doe network & @ namus

info from doe
Sketch of ring done by Balfour Jewelers, guessing that co. didnt make ring
says DNA: Available

doe
1313UFCT
namus
https://www.namus.gov/UnidentifiedPersons/Case#/8909

charged with the murders
STATE OF CONNECTICUT v. RICHARD DEFREITAS
https://law.justia.com/cases/connecticut/supreme-court/1980/179-conn-431-2.html

crimewatchers site
https://www.crimewatchers.net/threa...n-ct-30-may-1974-class-ring-with-letters.320/

 

[Red-Coat]

There are 32 pages of discussion on the websleuths site, including many suggestions for the origin/meaning of the ring... together with reasons why those suggestions have been ruled out or are unlikely:

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...8909-18-30-jnhs-1917-class-ring-may74.177729/

 

[releventchair]

Pretty sure the investigating officers looked at that in 1974

Be more than sure before dismissing a suggestion.

Unless you hold and study the case files , what real evidence do you have of what was ,or was not delved into?

An unsolved case is not evidence of a solved case. Until it is solved , dismissing questions without confirming the validity or not of the suggestion/question having been ruled out instead with a "pretty sure"...Is not conductive to research or investigation.



Why are you here?

 

[releventchair]

Personally, I make sure; then ask what was the follow-up to that inquiry.
Don..........(just an old ex-cop)

Damn straight!

 

[cw0909]

i think these 2 schools can be eliminated....

John Nichols ,construction completed in 1925:
The John Nichols School construction is completed and
school operations moved from the St. Johns Building.
https://mhc-oxford.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/MHCO-History.doc

no names matching initials inside ring for class of 1917
Johns_Hopkins_School_of_Nursing
https://medicalarchivescatalog.jhmi.edu/jhmi_permalink.html?key=164243

a link i posted said doe had dna,was wondering why no ID. looking
maybe $ and the change in Terms of Service @ GEDmatch,members have
to change the opt out set as default by GEDmatch to opt in,to make
available for comparison to LE & doe
https://dnadoeproject.org/message-about-the-recent-changes-at-gedmatch/

posted dna link
1313UFCT