Here Is A Banner Find

Garscale · May 14, 2020

I don't know what a banner find is as discussed on tnet but here is a banner stone known as the Barclay Banner found by my father in 1953 here in East Tx. It almost seems majic after all these years. It is sitting on anther near identical broken one found that same year.

PaleIO · May 14, 2020

That's a beauty! What is your thoughts on what they were used for?

Relicgrubber · May 14, 2020

Atlatl weight is my guess.

Garscale · May 14, 2020

PaleIO said:
That's a beauty! What is your thoughts on what they were used for?

I think they were a symbol of wealth and royalty. Far too much work went into making them of the finest stone for them to be utilitarian in purpose. Rare Items.

Garscale · May 14, 2020

Relicgrubber said:
Atlatl weight is my guess.

Atlatls have been pictured adorned with a banner stone. There were millions of atlatls in use yet banner stones are extremely rare. Could have used virtually anything for a weight on one without spending weeks working the finest stone if they were intended to be just weights. Clearly the purpose was more significant.

welsbury · May 14, 2020

I recall seeing that piece on Arrowheadology. Exceptionally beautiful stone,the owner was very proud. It would have consumed a lot of time to make.

I think banner pieces are supposed to be recently found.

Garscale · May 14, 2020

welsbury said:
I recall seeing that piece on Arrowheadology. Exceptionally beautiful stone,the owner was very proud. It would have consumed a lot of time to make.

I think banner pieces are supposed to be recently found.

Lol. Its a banner stone thus the play on words. And fyi... The owner is still very proud of it.

joshuaream · May 14, 2020

Always good to see that banner.

Use? Bannerstones were clearly atlatl weights, but a bit like some modern things (watches, guns, trucks, houses, etc.) there is no doubt that many were high status symbols of art. (What's the useful value of a ruby or an emerald in the Crown Jewels? Not much other than beauty, rarity, and symbolism of wealth/power/divinity.)

Those orange quartz ones are unique, and some of them are so precisely made that I believe they are the work of one family/artisan group. There are a couple of styles around that hourglass style, and maybe they were made by different families. I'd bet if someone tested the exact "finger print" of mineral composition (like they do with Mayan Jades), I'd bet you could trace a lot of them back to the same small area of Missouri or Arkansas.

Garscale · May 14, 2020

Well said Joshuaream.

Tdog · May 14, 2020

I remember that piece very well from Arrowheadology.

Garscale · May 14, 2020

Tdog said:
I remember that piece very well from Arrowheadology.

I was petting it just this morning

antmike915 · May 14, 2020

awesome &#55357;&#56396;

sandchip · May 15, 2020

joshuaream said:
Always good to see that banner.

Use? Bannerstones were clearly atlatl weights, but a bit like some modern things (watches, guns, trucks, houses, etc.) there is no doubt that many were high status symbols of art. (What's the useful value of a ruby or an emerald in the Crown Jewels? Not much other than beauty, rarity, and symbolism of wealth/power/divinity.)...

Thanks for a great answer to that question that pops up every single time a bannerstone is posted.

Here's another way of looking at it. One that you use. One that you look at.

ToddsPoint · May 15, 2020

I've made several quartzite banners and surprisingly quartzite is not that hard to work. It's very hard to drill the hole. That's where all the work was. Quartzite is quartz sand held together with a matrix. Ease of working depends on the matrix, not the quartzite. This is a bottle banner I made. Gary

scotto · May 15, 2020

Always love seeing that banner stone Steve.

unclemac · May 17, 2020

out here in the PNW we had "wealth blades" artifacts that were never meant to be used but gained value and status over time as they were exchanged in potlatches and such.

GB Paleo · May 18, 2020

Nice to have you on this site Steve so I can see that beautiful Banner Stone again!!

Garscale · May 18, 2020

Pointblank said:
Nice to have you on this site Steve so I can see that beautiful Banner Stone again!!

Well it only took me two days before the elite order started ripping on me. That ol jealousy deal always shines its green glow on forums. I just love how people can be total jackwagons and post a smile after it so you don't get butt hurt. Ahhh its the internet.lol I sure am glad the web isn't my life.

unclemac · May 18, 2020

Garscale said:
Well it only took me two days before the elite order started ripping on me. That ol jealousy deal always shines its green glow on forums. I just love how people can be total jackwagons and post a smile after it so you don't get butt hurt. Ahhh its the internet.lol I sure am glad the web isn't my life.

no, no, no...we were all concerned that you were one of those illegal land rapists that give the rest of us a bad name by going on BLM land or national forests destroying heritage sites. We get folks like that from time to time with no regard for public lands and state laws. I still can't wrap my head around why you can find so many in a relatively small space. How deep do you think they average?

Garscale · May 18, 2020

unclemac said:
no, no, no...we were all concerned that you were one of those illegal land rapists that give the rest of us a bad name by going on BLM land or national forests destroying heritage sites. We get folks like that from time to time with no regard for public lands and state laws. I still can't wrap my head around why you can find so many in a relatively small space. How deep do you think they average?

Ahhh.. Another honest question. I can find a lot of points because I'm capable of screening an enormous amount of material. I'm not sure its been understood yet but the dirt I screened and artifacts I posted was dirt not even worth digging by any other method. One point per yard and 2/3 of those damaged and discarded. If a guy worked 8 hours with a shovel he might get through 2 yds of that dirt so maybe one point a day. I screen 200 to 300 yds of it a day and have a nice frame of points. That's 30 dump truck loads of dirt.

Now for how deep... Birdies are shallow. 2 ft and less. Depending on what part of the hill but archaic to paleo go all the way to clay which can be 6 ft or 20 ft. In places I am digging paleo 22 ft deep. Try that with a brush and trowel.