Here Is A Banner Find

[Garscale]

I don't know what a banner find is as discussed on tnet but here is a banner stone known as the Barclay Banner found by my father in 1953 here in East Tx. It almost seems majic after all these years. It is sitting on anther near identical broken one found that same year.

 

[Garscale]

You guys have no idea the volume of points that are in those farm land sites. If you ever got a couple feet down and out of the plow zone it would stun you. Artifacts without plow scars that have never been picked over. It always kills me the same guys that trash me for carefully digging a site get a woody when they see a farmer pulling a middle buster through a site to deep plow it. Thrashing artifacts by the hundreds.

 

[Older The Better]

I wish I could sift the river valley farmland around here but there’s so much clay it either packs the screen or rolls into balls. Stinks because I’ve got a site down there that has produced several points, my only trade beads, and a French gun flint, but I have to surface hunt and hope for rain. Anything you can do to overcome clay rich soil?

 

[Garscale]

I wish I could sift the river valley farmland around here but there’s so much clay it either packs the screen or rolls into balls. Stinks because I’ve got a site down there that has produced several points, my only trade beads, and a French gun flint, but I have to surface hunt and hope for rain. Anything you can do to overcome clay rich soil?

Screen it all the time. Lots of tricks but my screen will eat it up.

 

[Older The Better]

Maybe I need to upgrade from a square frame I lift up and shake haha... but it is very portable and good exercise...

one time I had a museum class and I was processing buckets of dirt and the professor had me add something to the water and let it all soak in the bucket to break up the clay but I can’t remember what it was

 

[Garscale]

Maybe I need to upgrade from a square frame I lift up and shake haha... but it is very portable and good exercise...

one time I had a museum class and I was processing buckets of dirt and the professor had me add something to the water and let it all soak in the bucket to break up the clay but I can’t remember what it was

Bouncing motion won't work with lots of clay. Has to be back and forth motion to make the wire cut the dirt. Not doing that by hand on any large scale.

 

[unclemac]

what does the land look like when you are done?....what do you leave behind?...is it soil ready for the natural flora to take over?

 

[Force_of_Iron]

Thanks for a great answer to that question that pops up every single time a bannerstone is posted.

Here's another way of looking at it. One that you use. One that you look at.

So where are the cheap ones and what were they made of? I would imagine they would be made of soft stone to be more easily disposable when the inevitable damage occurs. Why are these not found in great numbers?

I'm not making a conflict but just don't see the connection is so easily made.

 

[Garscale]

Thanks for a great answer to that question that pops up every single time a bannerstone is posted.

Here's another way of looking at it. One that you use. One that you look at.

So where are the cheap ones and what were they made of? I would imagine they would be made of soft stone to be more easily disposable when the inevitable damage occurs. Why are these not found in great numbers?

I'm not making a conflict but just don't see the connection is so easily made.

They don't exist.

 

[Garscale]

what does the land look like when you are done?....what do you leave behind?...is it soil ready for the natural flora to take over?

It looks however I want it to look. My hole always stays the same size. Every time I put a load in the sifter I get one out from under it. So one goes back to the hole in the front side as I dig the wall on the back side. The same dirt goes back in that comes out. When I'm done it is smooth and level if that's how I want it.

Nothing grows plants better than rich camp dirt that has been freshly screened. Its like miracle grow.

 

[Force_of_Iron]

Thanks for a great answer to that question that pops up every single time a bannerstone is posted.

Here's another way of looking at it. One that you use. One that you look at.

They don't exist.

Yeah that's kinda the point. Since cheaper alternatives (in time-effort and material) don't exist. It seems to me the theory is busted wide open of atlatl bling. It makes no sense.

Of course, my knowledge is limited along with my imagination.

 

[Force_of_Iron]

Nice stuff Garscale! Its like a dream to have such beautiful things to display and more for the taking. Who wouldn't be jealous?

 

[Garscale]

Yeah that's kinda the point. Since cheaper alternatives (in time-effort and material) don't exist. It seems to me the theory is busted wide open of atlatl bling. It makes no sense.

Of course, my knowledge is limited along with my imagination.

I'm sure you saw my original post that I believe banner stones a a status symbol and not utilitarian. Like saying a kings crown is just a fancy cowboy hat.

 

[sandchip]

They don't exist.

Pretty confident statement, man.

Sure they do. Here's one of steatite that I found, and I know of others of this and other lower grade materials, claystone, mudstone, etc. Personally found if you need more pictures. The force causing the break on this example came from the inside. I wasn't there, but I'd be willing to bet it was caused by the flexing of the atlatl during a throw. The gouged out hole is further evidence suggesting its use as an atlatl weight.

 

[Garscale]

How about that. Hole is gouged instead of drilled. Looks like it might have once been polished pretty well. Very interesting bannerstone. That said there must have been millions of atlatls made yet banner stones are extremely rare. That one looks like it had a hard life but most don't. Great study item. Thanks for posting it.

Edit after looking again part of it was polished but most of it was pecked out and never polished. I begin to wonder if it was broken whole gouging the hole since it isn't drilled? Maybe it was broken and never finished. Intriquing.

 

[unclemac]

you mention great artifacts other than points that are deep as well...do you have any to share?

 

[Garscale]

you mention great artifacts other than points that are deep as well...do you have any to share?

I could share for years. At some point I might share some more pics. Been down in my back last few days so I been amusing myself on this site while laying around. Ill answer your question though. One particular site I bought averaged 13 ft deep to the lowest paleo layers. I found over 30,000 complete or mostly complete points in two acres excavated. Sure was a learning experience.

 

[Garscale]

This frame of artifacts came from the very deepest levels. Actually in the hard pan clays.

 

[sandchip]

How about that. Hole is gouged instead of drilled. Looks like it might have once been polished pretty well. Very interesting bannerstone. That said there must have been millions of atlatls made yet banner stones are extremely rare. That one looks like it had a hard life but most don't. Great study item. Thanks for posting it.

Edit after looking again part of it was polished but most of it was pecked out and never polished. I begin to wonder if it was broken whole gouging the hole since it isn't drilled? Maybe it was broken and never finished. Intriquing.

It was a river find which probably accounts for the polish. My thoughts were that the hole was drilled, then enlarged by gouging. Hadn't thought of it being broken while gouging the hole, but I doubt it although anything's possible. Native Americans seemed to be a patient bunch when making things.

Hellacious deep level stuff there. Thanks again for sharing.

 

[Garscale]

I posted the paleo frame over on the digging thread. Trying to consolidate the digging discussion to one thread and leave this one for bannerstone discussion.

 

[DeepseekerADS]

One thing I've noticed on my 7 years here - if you ask for/indicate it's a banner find, ya ain't gunna get a Banner for it.

Gotta let us peeples vote for it ourselves, and some of us just walk away.