Highway 49 slucing

[goldenIrishman]

Thank you Clay! That made things a LOT clearer in my mind. As usual your answers to our questions have got me thinking (you KNOW how dangerous that is!) and coming up with more questions. I will however send the majority of them to you in an E-mail. The one question I will ask is where can we go to be able to find out the details of the mineral withdrawals? I can think of many a guy that would be interested in knowing that kind of information. It would be great to know that an area you've been working in was going to be taken off the withdrawal status on such and such a date.

 

[fowledup]

Mytimetoshine- YES! I absolutely expect you and everyone else to know the laws and rules in respect to me and my property. The consequences of violating them should be understood as well. Why in the world is it my responsibility to make sure your educated and informed as to where you are. You should know that before you leave your own house. People are ignorant, and have no respect for others property. I live in the boonies. My property has signs and is fenced on three sides. Not once but several times I've caught people cutting the fence to get their quad or truck on my property to hunt or cut wood. And yet I'm an A-hole? I had one clown from the city drive his new Escapade on my front lawn and proceed to get in my face. Yelling at me that his GPS was right and I was lying to him when I told him that the property he was looking for was across the canyon and landlocked. The guy wouldn't back down and wanted to brawl. He left at gunpoint. Here are the facts- people don't write, call or knock on your door to ask permission, they just trespasses and claim ignorance. In twenty years we've had all of two or three come to the front door and ask permission. Because they asked we welcomed them. As a kid our family had property and a claim in the Concow lake area. You had to go thru two locked gates to get to camp. I can't tell you how many times grandpa or the old man had to run people off. More property/claim owners have been shot then trespassers.

 

[Clay Diggins]

The short answer to where you find out about withdrawals is to get the Master Title Plat (MTP) for the area you are interested in. Each withdrawal has a BLM serial number on the MTP that you can then look up on the LR2000 case files. That will give the citation of the actual withdrawal that will allow you to look up the exact wording and type of withdrawal in the Federal Register.

That's the short answer.

The MTP sometimes has withdrawal dates on it but you shouldn't rely on the MTP for the details. The BLM has been known to "forget" to remove withdrawals from the MTP when they expire. Always go to the Federal Register to get the straight scoop on withdrawals.

The best claim I ever had was from watching for expiring mineral withdrawals and being the first one to claim the best spot the day it opened to claiming. I prospected the spot before the withdrawal expired. Like most mineral withdrawals I could prospect the area while the withdrawal was still in effect.

Research pays off in real gold.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Please keep in mind that prospectors on the public lands have a legal obligation to know the status of the lands they intend to prospect before they begin prospecting.

Hikers can follow trail signs, so can mountain bikers.

A prospector can't rely on "prospect here" signs. Their legal obligation to know the land status where they intend to prospect is known as performing "due diligence".

Due diligence is defined in the law of land and property as:

The care that a reasonable person exercises to avoid harm to other persons or their property.

As you see the obligation is to "avoid harm". There's nothing in there about any landowner having a duty to inform you when you are prospecting in the wrong place. All landowners, as well as all claim owners, have posted public notice when they record their property at the County Recorder's office. That constitutes all the legal notice they need to let you know it's "not yours". That information is available freely to all who bother to look. There is no excuse for not looking before you prospect.

There is a big difference between someone trespassing on private land and a prospector looking for minerals on private land.

The person just passing through private property is only trespassing if the landowner has not posted his property according to the laws in the State and County where it is located. Hiking on private land does not damage the land or take any thing of value from it.

The prospector has a positive duty not to take minerals from private property whether it has been posted according to the law or not. Taking things of value from private property without the express permission of the owner is theft - always and in all situations. There is also the issue of damage to the physical property from the act of digging and moving material. Both of these acts - theft and damage make for a good cause for active defense of one's property. If a landowner has a reasonable fear, from past experience, of those who damage his property and take valuable gold from it he has a good reason to approach those people armed.

Hiking across private property, whether posted or not, is not theft. Please don't try to make hiking out to be the same as prospecting. Theft and trespass are two entirely different situations.

 

[fowledup]

Clay diggings, have you or would you be willing to do a how to workshop on your knowledge of the claim system, or the techniques you use to research property and claims? Maybe write a sticky here or a gold claims how to for dummy's. With the absence of dredging more and more folks are sitting on the claims and not working them. We are also seeing a pretty good influx of new prospectors looking for mining areas. Definitely not enough easily understood resources in this area. If your not into it, the research is a very confusing, misleading, and intimidating endeavor. Which in turn may be a big reason why so many people are inclined to trespasse and/or claim jump.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Hello Clay
After much research on jurisdiction of the state land. Most of the Public Domain (land owned by the American Public) is considered Public Lands. Where the problem comes in is everyone thinks they are Federal Lands. They are not , only managed by Federal Agencies until disposed of to the people of the USA.

You are absolutely right dredgeman. I reread my post and I should have made myself clearer.

The public lands are held in trust by the people's representatives assembled in Congress.

Federal lands are those lands spelled out in Article I Section 8 of the Constitution. They are limited to:

such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings

I seriously doubt Federal lands are even equal to 1% of the area encompassed by the public lands.

Thanks for making that important point dredgeman.

 

[mytimetoshine]

Mytimetoshine- YES! I absolutely expect you and everyone else to know the laws and rules in respect to me and my property. The consequences of violating them should be understood as well. Why in the world is it my responsibility to make sure your educated and informed as to where you are. You should know that before you leave your own house. People are ignorant, and have no respect for others property. I live in the boonies. My property has signs and is fenced on three sides. Not once but several times I've caught people cutting the fence to get their quad or truck on my property to hunt or cut wood. And yet I'm an A-hole? I had one clown from the city drive his new Escapade on my front lawn and proceed to get in my face. Yelling at me that his GPS was right and I was lying to him when I told him that the property he was looking for was across the canyon and landlocked. The guy wouldn't back down and wanted to brawl. He left at gunpoint. Here are the facts- people don't write, call or knock on your door to ask permission, they just trespasses and claim ignorance. In twenty years we've had all of two or three come to the front door and ask permission. Because they asked we welcomed them. As a kid our family had property and a claim in the Concow lake area. You had to go thru two locked gates to get to camp. I can't tell you how many times grandpa or the old man had to run people off. More property/claim owners have been shot then trespassers.

I believe i made it a clear that we are talking about accidental trespassing. Cutting down a fence so you can get your 4-wheeler on the other side of it is clearly not an accident. Let the warning shots fly if thats the case. In fact if you have ignored OBVIOUS SIGNS or been told twice im with you,use force if necessary....if you read my post you would see that...

 

[fowledup]

I read your post. You made it clear what accidental trespassing is from your perspective. My perspective differs. As I said I live in the sticks Johnny law is no where around, I'm it. How do I, Joe nice guy claim owner, property owner know your intentions? How do I know if your armed, one guy or ten, a thief, a drug addict, rapist and on and on. By the time it comes down to confronting a trespasser I have to be prepared for whichever. Another thing your not seeing is; you the trespasser may have only been on my property once by accident. But the fact is, it happens much more frequently then that, so how many times should I put up with it. If I lived in town and people kept cutting across my yard to save themselves thirty steps. I'm not gonna put up a sign, spend a bunch of money and build a fence to force them to stay on the side walk like they should. I will be the grumpy old man you mentioned previously. Not to sound like gramps again but I was taught not to be where I didn't have permission. Mr. Freestone peppering my cousins and I's backside with a shot of rock salt as a youngster confirmed my parents teachings. More often then not when caught, folks get indignant, and cop an attitude. Usually they try to convince you that it's you who are trespassing. Half claim ignorance and the other half cop attitudes. Do the homework, give a call, write a letter show your willing and have respect, ya might find yourself a place to mine others aren't allowed to. Trespass or claim jump and I don't have any sympathy for what happens.

 

[fowledup]

Mytimetoshine, I do see your point and share your frustration on the lack of access we all have. Hopefully you see my point and understand my reaction. Wish you well- fowledup

 

[goldenIrishman]

Fowled,

I have to agree with you on the majority of your points. Living where I do there is a HUGE problem with illegal aliens and drug runners. Granted we have tons of Border Patrol Officers as well but they can't be everywhere at once. Around here when we're out prospecting it's better to b armed and able to defend yourself than unarmed and killed by some drug runner who thinks he's protecting his load.

I also think that your idea for "Clays' How to research and file a claim for Dummies" (which is a category I have to fall into on that subject) is a great idea. I think we all know that Clay is our "Obi Wan Kenobi" when it comes to that kind of stuff. He's helped many of us since he joined the forum and I hope he would consider taking the time to make such a post. (Besides... It just might save him from having to answer the same question over and over and over.) Sometimes being great comes with a price Clay

 

[Prospector70]

Where are the pictures and videos of this highway gold sluicing party?

Excellent Data in this thread.

Keep Calm
and
Sluice On

 

[Goldwasher]

#workjoke.....we say it out loud at work " Hashtag that was stupid....hashtag cooler than you"...etc. Just bein' a smartazz. There are a lot of newbies who come hear and all they know and initially take to the field including legal knowledge (#clueless) and attitudes, comes from here and a few other forums maybe. So the enlightenment of code and etiquette not to mention actual legal responsibility is PARAMOUNT. If you are a total new guy and are not going to a spot with someone then go to a known easy to access public spot, you have heard has some color. If you have set out a few times and think that the reason you aren't as successful as you should be and its Location...location....location then you bet, yer butt it is up to you to know if you are legally allowed to be there. You mentioned you were just in Coloma/ Lotus area, My Neighborhood pretty much. I actually live just up the hill to the east. You saw the land and and properties. People put up all kind of signs and fence a lot of signs get ripped down. There are folks out here who don't want you on their land for other reasons than gold. There are inholdings on federal lands. If you are going to head out in a more serious manner then you must do your homework in a serious manner. You should never pull your weapon unless you intend to use it. So, yes just it doesn't give someone the right to act that but, (not referring to the above mention property owner) you must know by now that's not gonna prevent it from happening. I have never been chased off from anywhere...Luck?....no, I have never dug somewhere I shouldn't. And if I ever was confronted on a spot I researched and was certain to be legal for me to hit. I would leave and double check before I came back with paperwork if it was that big of a deal to me. It is the diggers burden to know where he is digging.

 

[mxer47]

I asked a simple question to start this thread, where can I sluice along 49. I received a few suggestions including Iowa hill, Yankee Jim's and melonies lake. There were posts directly after saying the first two are claimed and, I don't know if the creeks-streams are running into this lake this time of year. And as of right now there are posts up talking about a great day at yankee Jim's as if it is an open spot. Remember these are only names of places in a map to me. If I were to mention the broken dam or horseshoes bend ( some spots where I live) you may start to see my point. I would guess that local knowledge would keep me away from the old man with rock salt now that I'm an adult, but if I'm a stranger I would rely on a friendly store owner or the like ( maybe even a friendly t-net member). But it seems like when asking a simple question all I get is confusion, and now talk of shooting and fence cutting. Internet searches regarding public places usually specify "hand and pan" only. Maybe if information of open areas was easer to access trespassing would be reduced. I'm not looking for a place to set up shop or stake a claim when some area opens up just a place to set up a sluice and maybe next year bring a small class of kids with their parents on a field trip. Can someone tell me if Cherokee bar near cool is open. I have seen it mentioned before.

 

[ALewis]

Yankee Jim's & Iowa Hill Rd are both day use area's, and open to public. Sorry, not trying to cause more issue's, but I have personally been to both spot's, spoken to prospector's up and down river, ASRA employee's, as well as other's on this site. I have spent all summer in those general area's because it seemed like the safest way to stay off of other's claims until I knew more. I mainly stick to Pennyweight trail, lately have gone on Stephen's Trail & really gone upriver. Look at some of MadMarshal's vid's on bustin cracks, etc., or Auburn State Rec area. There are a number of others, a lot more knoweldgable than I am on this site that frequent that area. Just sayin

 

[Clay Diggins]

All the public lands are open to the public whether they are claimed or not. Don't confuse public lands with a right to prospect.

The immediate area around the bridge on Yankee Jims road is unclaimed. Upstream and downstream there are active mining claims. Yankee Jims itself is private property.

Iowa Hill road is nearly all private land. There is a very short section of Iowa Hill road that is in the SRA but all of that land is County owned. The few portions of the road that pass through BLM managed land are heavily claimed. There are some small areas that are unclaimed but you would have to do some research to find out where those are.

The point being that the SRA is full of active claims. Simply believing other prospectors or seeing that others prospect there does not mean you are not digging up someone claim. Telling the judge that Mad Marshall made a video or some other prospector did it so it's OK for you to do it might get you a laugh but it won't keep you out of jail.

There are areas of the river where you can prospect. There are areas of the river that are blanketed with claims. I've already pointed out that where Iowa Hill road crosses the North Fork the upstream area has a claim that has been active since 1953.

"Open to the public" does not mean it's unclaimed. It does not mean you can prospect. Please do the research before you prospect.

 

[mxer47]

You keep saying do the research. So apparently to enjoy a day or two in a place I know very little about I am expected to look for some places to go then go to the county clerk/register and research claims during business hours to figure out if it is legal for me to prospect. Now consider someone who doesn't understand this process and just bought a pan and is taking his kids out for a fun day. I have done all my due diligence regarding my area including county offices dredging permits with the DOW etc. I'm not saying the process you are describing is wrong or inaccurate. Honestly I think it is very informative albeit convoluted and by no fault of yours. I'm saying if there was a way to easily get helpful pointers about exactly where TO go would automatically reduce the numbers of new folks, family's and out-of-towners going were they don't belong. Thank you for the specific description of places to go, it was helpful and I think I'll check it out.

 

[ALewis]

I have done a bunch of research, and sorry Clay, your the first to tell me that I cannot pan in the Auburn rec area, Yankee Jim's bridge, or upriver from Iowa Hill Bridge. That is including (2) different State Employees that I stopped and talked with ? Not just a random prospector, but maybe 15-20 others that I have stopped and talked with all through this summer. I have heard so much about Pennyweight trail & stephens trail, and personally been, and know Several others who go there.... but both those trails run past 1/4 Mile of Iowa Hill Bridge, from the above post's, that area must all be claimed I have to ask, Have you even been there ?

 

[Clay Diggins]

I have done a bunch of research, and sorry Clay, your the first to tell me that I cannot pan in the Auburn rec area, Yankee Jim's bridge, or upriver from Iowa Hill Bridge. That is including (2) different State Employees that I stopped and talked with ? Not just a random prospector, but maybe 15-20 others that I have stopped and talked with all through this summer. I have heard so much about Pennyweight trail & stephens trail, and personally been, and know Several others who go there.... but both those trails run past 1/4 Mile of Iowa Hill Bridge, from the above post's, that area must all be claimed I have to ask, Have you even been there ?

Yes I've been there ALewis.

If you did a bunch of research you already know that the active placer claim Eileen CAMC9683 is located on both sides of the North Fork above the Iowa Hill bridge for 1/4 mile, including part of the campground. I found that in under five minutes without leaving my chair.

I never wrote that that you couldn't pan the Auburn SRA. I wrote that those parts of the Auburn SRA that are under claim can not be lawfully prospected (including panning).

I did specifically state that the river just around Yankee Jims road bridge is open to prospecting but that both downstream and upstream there are claims over portions of the river.

I like to help people with finding gold. I'm one of the few prospectors you will meet who will share good locations. I try to help people understand how geology, mineralogy and dynamics can show them where they can get gold. One of the aspects of prospecting is knowing the land status of where you intend to prospect. It is no less important than all the other skills involved in successful prospecting but it's the one subject that brings out objections from those who want to skip the research. Just bring the subject up and someone will say it's the claim owners responsibility to keep them off their claims.

This thread is a good example. Despite all the objections I'm pretty sure there are some smart prospectors on this forum who have already figured out that I've given them some good information on where they can prospect without taking gold off another man's claim.

I'm not the TNet prospecting nanny. If you want to prospect other peoples claims I'm pretty sure you will do so. If you think it's OK to prospect those claims because a State Employee or another prospector told you it was OK you are mistaken.

The choice is yours. Everyone has the same choice. Take what you want and claim ignorance when caught or do the research and be sure where you go is unclaimed, not private property and open to prospecting.

 

[fowledup]

Mxer47, where are you coming from? Are you set on 49 or are you willing to travel a bit. There are some areas open to prospecting very near my area. They all produce and I would be happy to point you in the right direction. PM if you would like.

 

[Lucky Baldwin]

Mxer47- here's a safe, fun place to go. - Home