How the Old Timers Got Under Boulders

[Terry Soloman]

 

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[Erect and Caffeinated]

Way too labor intensive. Simply blast/dredge around the boulder,jack up with a pneumatic car jack, place rocks to retain up. Dredge/blast,repeat other side and 1/100 the work. Ez to do, quicker and lots less work. Did not see anything close/big enough to winch to? John

Not everyone is fortunate enough to have the financial liberty to afford a dredge, air compressor, and pneumatic jack; or the super human strength required to hike it all down to the river by themselves. Let alone live in a state where liberals haven't made it illegal to even use a water pump. As a one man mining machine my damn self , I find this inspiring as all hell. I think alot of us here in the states get to soft granted the privelage we have of living in this great country. There's guys in Africa, Peru, the Philippines, etc. That have never seen miner's moss, or a classifier that fits onto a 5 gallon bucket. They don't have a mining shop they can go to and upgrade their jobe sluice with a high banker/dredge kit or get a new set of riffles. Straight up busting their ass trying to pull out a gram so they can feed a family and make it to work the next day themselves. I've often thought about trying to gather some donations from around the community(old pans,classifiers, old miner's moss and carpet or even scraps of it, broken riffle bars, trashed sluices, broken shovels, buckets, hell even yee old poop tube sluice or what have you) and finding a way to get it to the guys using their loin clothe for sluice matting every day and a beat-in bottom of a 50 gallon drum for a pan.

 

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[Asmbandits]

You sound a lot like Victor Marshall.. Jus sayin

 

[russau]

China

Terry are you sure? It kinda looks just like Hollywood Blvd. by Reeds secret hidy - hole location...........OOOOOOPPPS I wasn't supposed to give out the secrete spot! Sorry Reed!!

 

[Erect and Caffeinated]

You sound a lot like Victor Marshall.. Jus sayin

Oh ya?

Can he carry a tune?

...just sayin...

From the perspective of some brokedick kid in California where dredging isn't an option....

But who knows, maybe I'm just the only jerk in California mining without a claim with road access and no L.E.O.'s to hassle me. Lmfao

 

[Clay Diggins]

Oh ya?

Can he carry a tune?

...just sayin...

From the perspective of some brokedick kid in California where dredging isn't an option....

But who knows, maybe I'm just the only jerk in California mining without a claim with road access and no L.E.O.'s to hassle me. Lmfao

Naw ... there's a bunch of jerks in California doing that. There's a bunch of them doing the same thing that aren't jerks. Personal choice I imagine.

Welcome to the forums.

Heavy Pans

 

[Clay Diggins]

Let alone live in a state where liberals haven't made it illegal to even use a water pump.

I thought you just said you mined in California? If you've got water and you aren't using pumps that's your choice. No laws against pumps in California.

Heavy Pans

 

[Asmbandits]

Oh ya?

Can he carry a tune?

...just sayin...

From the perspective of some brokedick kid in California where dredging isn't an option....

But who knows, maybe I'm just the only jerk in California mining without a claim with road access and no L.E.O.'s to hassle me. Lmfao

Humm.. now that really sounds like Victor!

If not and you believe that you are very mistaken, tons of ground being worked every day from backyards to stream beds.

 

[Erect and Caffeinated]

No laws against pumps in California.

Heavy Pans

Actually...

The following is from the CA Fish and Wildlife website at https://www.wildlife.ca.gov/Conservation/LSA .
When is Notification of Lake or Streambed Alteration (LSA) required?
Fish and Game Code section 1602 requires an entity to notify CDFW prior to commencing any activity that may do one or more of the following:

Substantially divert or obstruct the natural flow of any river, stream or lake;
Substantially change or use any material from the bed, channel or bank of any river, stream, or lake; or
Deposit debris, waste or other materials that could pass into any river, stream or lake.
Please note that "any river, stream or lake" includes those that are episodic (they are dry for periods of time) as well as those that are perennial (they flow year round). This includes ephemeral streams, desert washes, and watercourses with a subsurface flow. It may also apply to work undertaken within the flood plain of a body of water.

....sooo....

Being as how the water has to drain somewhere....and is more than likely to contain silt....and alter the stream bed via erosion and deposition....

A permit from the water Gestapo is required. And it's expensive. And a pain in the ass.

Unless I've missed some landmark victory in the fight for our mining rights here in California, which I very well may have, in which case fill be in brother!


And would you cut the Victor crap already, Id run circles around that old koot. Might as well be sayin I play baseball like a girl.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Actually...

The following is from the CA Fish and Wildlife website at https://www.wildlife.ca.gov/Conservation/LSA .
When is Notification of Lake or Streambed Alteration (LSA) required?
Fish and Game Code section 1602 requires an entity to notify CDFW prior to commencing any activity that may do one or more of the following:

Substantially divert or obstruct the natural flow of any river, stream or lake;
Substantially change or use any material from the bed, channel or bank of any river, stream, or lake; or
Deposit debris, waste or other materials that could pass into any river, stream or lake.
Please note that "any river, stream or lake" includes those that are episodic (they are dry for periods of time) as well as those that are perennial (they flow year round). This includes ephemeral streams, desert washes, and watercourses with a subsurface flow. It may also apply to work undertaken within the flood plain of a body of water.

....sooo....

Being as how the water has to drain somewhere....and is more than likely to contain silt....and alter the stream bed via erosion and deposition....

A permit from the water Gestapo is required. And it's expensive. And a pain in the ass.

Unless I've missed some landmark victory in the fight for our mining rights here in California, which I very well may have, in which case fill be in brother!


And would you cut the Victor crap already, Id run circles around that old koot. Might as well be sayin I play baseball like a girl.

Not a thing about water pumps in that Code (not law).

Do you work for the CAFW?

Heavy Pans

 

[Erect and Caffeinated]

Are we on the same page here cuz it's starting to sound like you're just arguing for the sake of argument. Pumping water is considered diverting it and since that water's going to have to flow back down to the stream at some point it's going to alter the stream bed within the floodplain of the river that I'm working on wherever that maybe. If we are allowed to run water pumps at the river than WYD isn't everybody doing it? It's not so much running the water pump as it is what you do with the water as any type of motorized or mechanical means of processing minerals is band by the revised red band rules

Case in point? I present Fish and game code 5653
Section G: (g) For purposes of this section and Section 5653.1 , the use of vacuum or suction dredge equipment, also known as suction dredging, is the use of a mechanized or motorized system for removing or assisting in the removal of, or the processing of, material from the bed, bank, or channel of a river, stream, or lake in order to recover minerals.  This section and Section 5653.1 do not apply to, prohibit, or otherwise restrict nonmotorized recreational mining activities, including panning for gold

Now as much as I'd like to ignore reality or believe I'm above the law, it seems to me like section g was worded loosely enough for a fishing games officer to be able to encompass use of a water pump as "the use of a mechanized or motorized system for removing or assisting in the removal of, or the processing of, material from the bed, bank, or channel of a river, stream, or lake in order to recover minerals."

So while there was no mention of water pumps being illegal...well let's just say if u think this doesn't encompass the use of a water pump, I'd say it's questionable if you've ever even used one for mining. I know there are lots of people working claims every day, some even with dredges. Maybe someone who's out there doin the damn thing for someone who's been busted running a water pump or better yet somebody who wasn't busted for running a water pump and has confirmed from law enforcement official that it's legal could chime in and fill me in on this whole gig because as far as I know the moment you start using that pump or water from it remaining law enforcement officers are going to flip a f****** script

 

[Clay Diggins]

Are we on the same page here cuz it's starting to sound like you're just arguing for the sake of argument. Pumping water is considered diverting it and since that water's going to have to flow back down to the stream at some point it's going to alter the stream bed within the floodplain of the river that I'm working on wherever that maybe. If we are allowed to run water pumps at the river than WYD isn't everybody doing it? It's not so much running the water pump as it is what you do with the water as any type of motorized or mechanical means of processing minerals is band by the revised red band rules

Case in point? I present Fish and game code 5653
Section G: (g) For purposes of this section and Section 5653.1 , the use of vacuum or suction dredge equipment, also known as suction dredging, is the use of a mechanized or motorized system for removing or assisting in the removal of, or the processing of, material from the bed, bank, or channel of a river, stream, or lake in order to recover minerals.  This section and Section 5653.1 do not apply to, prohibit, or otherwise restrict nonmotorized recreational mining activities, including panning for gold

Now as much as I'd like to ignore reality or believe I'm above the law, it seems to me like section g was worded loosely enough for a fishing games officer to be able to encompass use of a water pump as "the use of a mechanized or motorized system for removing or assisting in the removal of, or the processing of, material from the bed, bank, or channel of a river, stream, or lake in order to recover minerals."

So while there was no mention of water pumps being illegal...well let's just say if u think this doesn't encompass the use of a water pump, I'd say it's questionable if you've ever even used one for mining. I know there are lots of people working claims every day, some even with dredges. Maybe someone who's out there doin the damn thing for someone who's been busted running a water pump or better yet somebody who wasn't busted for running a water pump and has confirmed from law enforcement official that it's legal could chime in and fill me in on this whole gig because as far as I know the moment you start using that pump or water from it remaining law enforcement officers are going to flip a f****** script

Still no laws about water pumps? Darn

Yeah I couldn't find one either.

Imagine that...

You wrote:

Let alone live in a state where liberals haven't made it illegal to even use a water pump.

Then I wrote:

If you've got water and you aren't using pumps that's your choice. No laws against pumps in California.

Still no law...

Thanks for sharing your opinions on other things unrelated to water pump laws though. Much appreciated.

Heavy Pans

 

[Goldwasher]

People still find gold in California... thats cool as heck

I heard it was all gone and you can't even use a sluice!!!

 

[Terry Soloman]

Ain't it funny how breaking boulders turns into a disagreement over water pumps and the law?

 

[Erect and Caffeinated]

Still no laws about water pumps? Darn

Yeah I couldn't find one either.

Imagine that...

You wrote:


Then I wrote:


Still no law...

Thanks for sharing your opinions on other things unrelated to water pump laws though. Much appreciated.

Heavy Pans

....seriously?
Tell you what, I'll call fish&game, the waterboard, and even stop by the ranger station tomorrow and ask them point blank. That way I can give u a definitive answer. Cause obviously you are not grasping the language of f&g code 5653 section g WHICH CLEARLY AND COMPASSES THE USE OF ANY MOTORIZED OR MECHANIZED DEVICE, MACHINE, WITCHCRAFT, MAGIC, OR ACTS OF GOD. Unless ur water pump is fairy powered, it uses a thing called an engine. This qualifies it as "motorized". The use of ANY motorized or MECHANIZED equipment, clearly being defined as illegal without permits. I don't know how else to put it. If you want to flagrantly disregard
what im saying in place of " still no waterpumps when the f&g code clearly has the language to encompass waterpumps, thats on you. im sitting here asking a serious question and providing legitimate points of interest, and in return being told in essence that because the rulebook doesnt say the word water pump i can go out and highbank, use a water hose and nozzle to wash overburden and bank material, power sluice, which im pretty sure is not the case. i could be wrong, but until i hear some legit factual info from a source that knows what therwe talking about, "still no water pumps" doesnt qualify as an answer to me.

give me a statement from cheddar bob the f&g ranger, joe blow miner whos been running a waterpump and got the ok from f&g or the waterboard, legislature out of the code book, anything other than an opinion or a snark witty half assed reply, and tack on "still no water pump?" At the end And I'll happily pucker up admit my blithering and being niave and kiss your ass for going off on a rant and thread jacking this thread over some nonsensical b.s.

Otherwise, I'll put up a post when I get some answers from the water gistapo and fish& game

Not trying to come off as a jerk or be argumentative I would just be extremely frustrated with myself if I found out that it was legal for me to use a water pump all this damn time when I've been humping 5 gallon buckets full of water all up and down the canyon. Can you smell what I'm stepping in?

 

[Goldwasher]

lol.. i know several people using motors on their claims.. in publically traversed areas.. Guys that have talked to F&W running hookas... thats a motor...

Blasting gravel under water with the output... F&g walked away no ticket..

Amra runs Hi bankers at the office claim very regularly with f$g actually mingling with members...

Just keep humping those buckets if you want to so bad.

Call all of them its been done Go to meetings its been done.

They don't have a solid no because it doesn't exist...

according to you legal theory a dry washer is a dredge... running a recirc sysem is a dredge ...a blue bowl in camp is a dredge... a battery powered roto hammer to bust bedrock is a dredge... an atv pulling a trailer full of paydirt is a dredge. You can go to the So cal desert and find dozens in use.


the new rules have nothing to do with motors.. it is vauge on purpose because they know most of the people in this state drink spine softener daily.

Heres one rather than vague rules ...how about post the super duper long list of people with citations!!

 

[mendoAu]

I kinda recall that the Chinese miners of the West Coast were ex-railroad workers. Once the railline was done the owners just up and dumped them. In alot of places they couldn't own a claim. Hard workin' som'*****es. You can still wonder into a old cobble wall made from the creek rocks from the chinese sites. Very through in their endevours.
But about them boulders.....
https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=e...hUKEwj4n5SLoI3gAhXpsVQKHbfXAw8QoiowFXoECAMQBg

 

[Goldwasher]

I kinda recall that the Chinese miners of the West Coast were ex-railroad workers. Once the railline was done the owners just up and dumped them. In alot of places they couldn't own a claim. Hard workin' som'*****es. You can still wonder into a old cobble wall made from the creek rocks from the chinese sites. Very through in their endevours.
But about them boulders.....
https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=e...hUKEwj4n5SLoI3gAhXpsVQKHbfXAw8QoiowFXoECAMQBg

Chinese railroad workers didn't exist until the 1860's

So, any chinese miner before that was just a chinese miner.. they were also farmers, carpenters, sailors, business men.

Just like Men from the east during the initial years of the Ca. Gold Rush it was men who could afford he trip that did.

China was no exception Many "pioneer" Chinese families with roots in Ca. came during the early years funded themselves and were succesful.

The racism came twenty years later. when you read early diaries you are hard pressed to find a miner speaking of others in the community in a racist way.

Back then then,

Chinamen called the Chinamen, Chinamen.

The Chinese laborers for the railroad.. just like the Irish. were indentured servants. Typically arrived with travel paid by a broker. Who took a fee for each man. Then paid that man whatever he could get away with ..or not.

What pop culture has done to the nuance of History... especially 19th century American History is just plain gross.