Looking for Unpatented Gold Claim - First Timer

[locklear24]

As the title says, I'm a first-timer to all of this. I've done some initial research and gotten some friendly answers on Reddit as well.

There is a lapsed/inactive claim listed on The Diggings site for a plot in the Superstition Wilderness Area. I've spoken to the BLM Arizona State Office, and the employee assured me that I would need to prospect it and start the paperwork to file all over again on it. When I pointed out that it's in a Wilderness Area the Forestry Service is in charge of, he told me I should next proceed with contacting them for my next step to see if an inactive claim can be revitalized in the Wilderness Area.

Now being that this is indeed my first time pursuing anything of this nature, I also have the option of talking to a local hobbyist prospector here in Ohio that speculates and sells claims he already finds and registers.

The question: should I go through the hassle of trying to reactivate that old claim that I may or may not be allowed to start up again, or should I buy one readily registered for my first time out? Either way, my preference are sites in Arizona so I can get out of Ohio in the winter months and have the opportunity to camp and enjoy the beauty of the desert.

I look forward to all of your collective wisdom. I'm 40, and I realize that's not old to a lot of the users on forums like these. I'm not a spring chicken anymore though either.

Thanks!

 

[Tesorodeoro]

As the title says, I'm a first-timer to all of this. I've done some initial research and gotten some friendly answers on Reddit as well.

There is a lapsed/inactive claim listed on The Diggings site for a plot in the Superstition Wilderness Area. I've spoken to the BLM Arizona State Office, and the employee assured me that I would need to prospect it and start the paperwork to file all over again on it. When I pointed out that it's in a Wilderness Area the Forestry Service is in charge of, he told me I should next proceed with contacting them for my next step to see if an inactive claim can be revitalized in the Wilderness Area.

Now being that this is indeed my first time pursuing anything of this nature, I also have the option of talking to a local hobbyist prospector here in Ohio that speculates and sells claims he already finds and registers.

The question: should I go through the hassle of trying to reactivate that old claim that I may or may not be allowed to start up again, or should I buy one readily registered for my first time out? Either way, my preference are sites in Arizona so I can get out of Ohio in the winter months and have the opportunity to camp and enjoy the beauty of the desert.

I look forward to all of your collective wisdom. I'm 40, and I realize that's not old to a lot of the users on forums like these. I'm not a spring chicken anymore though either.

Thanks!

You can try, but the USFS/BLM does EVERYTHING IN THEIR POWER to remove the mineral estate from public entry within the boundaries of a federally designated wilderness at the time of designation. Only pre-existing rights are recognized.

I’d not waste my time trying to formalize some sort of claim thru traditional filing methods.

If it was recently lapsed, I’d work with the previous owner to dispute it and buy the rights if they were successful, but only if there was sufficient reason to do so. Prospect but be sure you are within your rights. BLM can be behind on their work.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Welcome

You have a lot to learn. Prospecting is a very old profession with a bunch of unique rules like any other profession.

To get you started:
No you can not locate a mining claim in a wilderness area. No exceptions.
The Diggings website hasn't updated their claim information since January 22, 2021. You would be better off using something more current before you go tromping around on what was open ground three and a half years ago. I would suggest you try Land Matters which updates their claim mapping twice a month or the BLM MLRS itself if it's working at the moment you need it. You have an advantage with Land Matters because they don't track your mapping use like the other claim websites.

Mining claims are not "reactivated". Every valid mining claim is based entirely on a current, on the ground, real life discovery of a valuable mineral deposit. It doesn't matter what someone else did with a mining claim that is now closed. The best quick resource to get you up to speed on what a mining claim is and isn't is the Nevada State brochure Mining Claim Procedures for Nevada Prospectors and Miners. It sounds imposing but it's really well done. It's a bit State specific but that too is explained.
Free download:

Land Matters Library Item

Before you decide whether you would rather find your own claim or buy one read the thread pinned at the top of this forum section Purchasing a Mining Claim - Mining Education Lesson.

The best advise I can give you is in the following very long sentence, dwell on it's meaning and you may be a successful gold miner.
A mining claim, no matter how old or where it's located, is worth exactly $274 minus the $200 annual fee until it can be proven by mining profession best practice prospecting and exploration practices that the claim has more recoverable mineral value than the expense of taking those minerals to market.

Arizona has a lot of gold left. A lot of people come here every winter to get some of that gold and enjoy the weather. There is plenty of both to go around.

Heavy Pans

 

[Tesorodeoro]

Welcome

You have a lot to learn. Prospecting is a very old profession with a bunch of unique rules like any other profession.

To get you started:
No you can not locate a mining claim in a wilderness area. No exceptions.
The Diggings website hasn't updated their claim information since January 22, 2021. You would be better off using something more current before you go tromping around on what was open ground three and a half years ago. I would suggest you try Land Matters which updates their claim mapping twice a month or the BLM MLRS itself if it's working at the moment you need it. You have an advantage with Land Matters because they don't track your mapping use like the other claim websites.

Mining claims are not "reactivated". Every valid mining claim is based entirely on a current, on the ground, real life discovery of a valuable mineral deposit. It doesn't matter what someone else did with a mining claim that is now closed. The best quick resource to get you up to speed on what a mining claim is and isn't is the Nevada State brochure Mining Claim Procedures for Nevada Prospectors and Miners. It sounds imposing but it's really well done. It's a bit State specific but that too is explained.
Free download:

Land Matters Library Item

Before you decide whether you would rather find your own claim or buy one read the thread pinned at the top of this forum section Purchasing a Mining Claim - Mining Education Lesson.

The best advise I can give you is in the following very long sentence, dwell on it's meaning and you may be a successful gold miner.
A mining claim, no matter how old or where it's located, is worth exactly $274 minus the $200 annual fee until it can be proven by mining profession best practice prospecting and exploration practices that the claim has more recoverable mineral value than the expense of taking those minerals to market.

Arizona has a lot of gold left. A lot of people come here every winter to get some of that gold and enjoy the weather. There is plenty of both to go around.

Heavy Pans

Clay, are you saying BLM is the decider in valid claims? I thought they were just folks that charged $ to manage a database of “claims”. The County and the local Superior Court were the arbitrators. Am I mistaken? I’m a willing and attentive student willing to be schooled. I’ve waited years to have my claim “validated” by BLM not that it matters apparently.

As a side note, I don’t consider mining a “profession” although there is a lot of knowledge required to be successful more than once.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Clay, are you saying BLM is the decider in valid claims? I thought they were just folks that charged $ to manage a database of “claims”. The County and the local Superior Court were the arbitrators. Am I mistaken? I’m a willing and attentive student willing to be schooled. I’ve waited years to have my claim “validated” by BLM not that it matters apparently.

As a side note, I don’t consider mining a “profession” although there is a lot of knowledge required to be successful more than once.

You are correct that the first court of record where the claim is located has exclusive jurisdiction in a dispute between or among adverse mining claimants. That only applies to disputes among claimants because the very first mining law made it a civil property matter that has no place in federal courts. If there is a dispute about who has the better right to own a claim it's always a county level court. I don't see where I have contradicted that fact or even addressed it? Did I miss something in this thread?

The law governing the location and maintenance of mining claims is a mixture of federal and state law - mostly state as to the details. A superior state court can invalidate mining claim ownership for several reasons but those all pertain to location and maintenance failures. A federal court can invalidate your claim after you protest an administrative decision made by the IBLA and you lose the case in a court of law.

The BLM doesn't determine claimant validity, other than to check small miner claim counts, but they do determine claim validity based on, whether the claim is located on land open to location and whether required filing deadlines and fees have been met. If the claim has no basis in law the BLM has to remove it from it's case files. They can't administer case files for claims on land not open to location and if you don't pay your fees the FLPMA gave them the right to close your case file. The BLM doesn't close claims it closes case files but if your claim doesn't have an associated case file at the BLM it's essentially got no mineral rights. They can't invalidate your claim for mining or exploration work but they can arrest you for mineral theft if you are mining on a closed mining claim.

I clearly stated that mining claims are based on the actual discovery of a valuable mineral deposit. Since 1976 this is the last of the self initiated property claims that created the much of the United States as we know them today. The mining claim location consists of the discoverer staking, monumenting, making a public record describing the location of the minerals they have discovered and claimed and giving a mandatory informational copy and fee to the BLM.

Claims are not "validated" by the BLM unless a mineral validity exam is ordered after you receive a withdrawal order and don't provide proof of a perfected mining claim. Those exams are very rare and expensive. You aren't trying to validate your claim you are trying to perfect the claim. You perfect your claim by proving, 1.) through actual testing, you have a valuable mineral deposit that is worth mining at a profit and 2.) you continue to meet your annual maintenance, recording and filing requirements. If you have perfected your claim it is as good as patented. Without a perfected claim or nearly perfected you have about $274 in value minus the $200 fee worth of mining claim.

This isn't something new. The perfection requirement has been in place since 1872. It's still an important aspect of mining today. All those mining companies selling stock on the exchange are required by securities law to attempt to perfect their deposits on an ongoing basis and to report those results to their stockholders on a timely basis.

Mining not a profession? There are 250,000 full time miners working in the United States at average wages that are triple what others in their community make. I'm pretty sure they could care less if you consider them professionals.

Read the brochure I linked to from the BLM. It really is very fact based and clear. It does point out all these facts and doesn't make any bogus claims about controlling mining.

 

[Tesorodeoro]

……….

I suppose I must have completely read something incorrectly or read into something that wasn’t written, because it seems clear today. Especially with your clarification.

The heat must be getting to me.

I’ll have to search the BLM data tonight because there was something on the summary page that stated something to the effect the claim had not been verified or ??. I had called into ask about it and they said they are going through all the claims to make sure they were filed on locatable ground. i.e. it had not been withdrawn. They said not to worry about it and that it would be awhile before they got to this area and that it didn’t affect the validity of the claim. I’ll post later tonight as long as I don’t get wiped out mechanic’ing in this heat.

Per a profession goes, I there are elements that fall under a profession. I.E. a geologist or chemist. Not meant to degrade anyone. It’s just that the school of hard knocks isn’t accredited yet and many fall under that category. I do realize there are very specialized folks that are very well paid and have a formal education in their occupation as a matter of necessity.