✅ SOLVED I dont think this is "the" KKK, but what might it be?

[TrpnBils]

I don't think this is "the" KKK, but what might it be?

I dug this at a homesite that's on my 1876 map in Pennsylvania but the house has been gone since at least the 40's. Came up as a 12-46/47 on my Etrac, it is not magnetic, is about the same thickness as a quarter, but is between the size of a quarter and a half dollar.

The front side (pictured) has what appears to be three chain links (they definitely overlap like a chain would even though the picture doesn't show it too well) and has the letters KKK clearly stamped underneath. The back is bare and smooth.

I can't see it being a cattle tag or something like that as there's no hole to attach it with, and just for the heck of it I looked up designs of KKK tokens and coins and it didn't match anything I found. Any thoughts? If it's somebody's initials, they don't match any of the land records I have for either of the two homesteads that were there (which are in the middle of nowhere).

 

[jeff of pa]

I do believe that y'all took what Gollum said out of context and didn't read and comprehend his intent. Lighten up people. Woodrow Wilson was the last president that was a Klan member. I find it hilarious that people have the inability to take exception at their family history. We owned several slaves prior to the War of northern aggression and their descendents live less than 60 miles from here and have our last name. I am not ashamed of any of it because I had nothing to do with any of it. But history is what it is...d2

Correct ! When this stuff was originally going on.
Many opinions were different.
No shame in that.

 

[nhbenz]

His post made it look like he was trying to downplay any family involvement in the KKK
Mike

No, he was was simply stating what his Grandfather said... Try reading for content.
You also may try reading the forum rules for content, as sharing what was said to you in PM's is not allowed. And, it's generally the policy to keep the atmosphere "fun", rather than irrelevant points of view speculating on one's ancestors.

I assume the thing about folks from WV automatically being racist hillbillies was a typo, right?

 

[BosnMate]

I think the counter stamped coin is really interesting, and with the KKK on it, I'd think that it's very rare. To bad the post degenerated into a KKK thing, because finding a counter stamped coin that old is something I'd love to find. By marriage I'm related to the last guy legally hung in Oregon. He was a rather inept crook, not the brightest bulb in the bank, and removing him from the gene pool was probably the right thing to do, but frankly all these years later, who cares? There is a silent movie, made in 1915, called "Birth of a Nation." Caused quite a ruckus in it's day, the KKK was made out to be heroes. Here's a link - The Birth of a Nation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Looking at the history of 1814, or 1914, with a 2014 mind set, or assuming nothing has changed, that they had our ideas and morals makes for bogus history. What is racist or politically incorrect now was perfectly OK 70 years ago when I was a kid. We sang Christmas Carols in school, openly talked about religion. Makes one wonder about the way Christians are being portrayed as anti gay by the political correct now, in 100 years are we going to be considered in the same light as the KKK? Just asking TrpnBils, you made a great find, and I'm a little on the jealous side.

 

[ivan salis]

looks like a old wore out v nickel stamped with both odd fellow " 3 chain links" and klan "KKK" markings

 

[TrpnBils]

This whole thing is getting ridiculous. Like I said, I came here for an answer which I got two days ago (in a different thread that included everything else I dug that day).

Just to throw this out there - the property that I'm referring to was purchased by my grandfather's family in the 1940's or possibly as early as the late 30's and had been owned by at least 4 other families prior to that from the time this home was built. In the early 40's the house was already torn down because he and his parents used the foundation stones from that house to erect a chimney on the house they were living in at the time a mile or so away. Regardless of what my ancestors did or did not do, I'm not embarrassed or ashamed of it. For all I know, the family member in question built a 40-foot tall cross in his front yard and sacrificed puppies on it every night or something, but if he did that was his own deal and has nothing to do with this counterstamped coin because his family didn't own the property or even live near it at the time. I just thought it was a neat find.

By the way, for anyone keeping track, this was in Pennsylvania (a northern state). This WV hillbilly just moved here, 6 miles from the Mason-Dixon line three years ago for work.

 

[TrpnBils]

looks like a old wore out v nickel stamped with both odd fellow " 3 chain links" and klan "KKK" markings

Nah, it's a good bit larger than the V-Nicks and didn't ring up as one. I'm going to try to get some good pictures today with a microscope/camera and better lighting. For reference, the diameter of the stamped coin is about 28.5mm (nickels are around 20.5) and the thickness is just shy of 2mm.

 

[DCMatt]

Wow. Quite a thread...

Can we just stick to the relic and leave personal opinions and implications out of it?

I'd like to see this relic cleaned a little more and a better pic posted.

The size is consistent with some "large cent" coins.

The Odd Fellows chain links are a good possibility. Same with the KKK being "the klan". I don't think either organization precluded the other (or any other fraternal order). No reason someone couldn't be a member of both at the same time.

DCMatt

 

[L.C. BAKER]

They were members of the K.G.C. and the I.O.O.F. and the Freemasons before they were in the K.K.K. it is not unusual to see the different organizations represented on the same token or the same monument. However, not all of them were secret organizations who tended to use symbolism to mask the representation of the treasonous organizations that could get you hung. Very cool piece of history you found there, way to go!

L.C.

 

[lockster99]

Most people in the South had family in the Klan? Wow....would love to see the statistics on that.

 

[Discrimination Dave]

No, he was was simply stating what his Grandfather said... Try reading for content.
You also may try reading the forum rules for content, as sharing what was said to you in PM's is not allowed. And, it's generally the policy to keep the atmosphere "fun", rather than irrelevant points of view speculating on one's ancestors.

I assume the thing about folks from WV automatically being racist hillbillies was a typo, right?

BRAVO BRAVO BRAVO
Im gonna try and friend this dude.

 

[TrpnBils]

Wow. Quite a thread...

Can we just stick to the relic and leave personal opinions and implications out of it?

I'd like to see this relic cleaned a little more and a better pic posted.

The size is consistent with some "large cent" coins.

The Odd Fellows chain links are a good possibility. Same with the KKK being "the klan". I don't think either organization precluded the other (or any other fraternal order). No reason someone couldn't be a member of both at the same time.

DCMatt

That's a question I had there - with regard to cleaning it up, is there any way that an olive oil soak would hurt it in this case? I've hit it pretty hard with warm water and a toothbrush already, but there's definitely a "crust" on it. the stamps are definitely deep enough they're not going anywhere, and I've brought some details out of a colonial copper with that method before. What's visible right now (moreso in person than on the pictures) is the outline of the head, and then the letters "RIC" in the word America on the reverse. I've compared it to both the Matron Head and Braided varieties of LC and the spacing and distance of the letters from the edge of the coin matches up with the Matron head variety, but I'd like to see if any other detail can be brought out. I will have some other pictures today after work.

 

[DCMatt]

Olive oil and a soft toothbrush won't hurt. Just go slowly and keep checking the results as you go. Sometimes the details can be removed with the crust.

Mostly I'd like to see a straight on photo in natural light on a medium dark background. We've I'd numerous coins on this forum with very little detail showing. We just need a good pic.

 

[Discrimination Dave]

and
cleaning / restoring can be more spiritual than chemical. ie/ BE PATIENT!!!!
Some of my bronze coins from different time periods react totally differently.
Dry First

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Upon further research I believe you have a "copperhead's" Indian head penny medallion that most likely belonged to a member of the K.G.C. / K.K.K. / I.O.O.F. They wore them on their lapel to show their support before going underground. John C. Breckenridge was known to wear his while in the Vice president's seat. After they were considered to be a treasonous organization they wore them under their lapels so they could not be seen without turning the lapel over. Although this one may have just carried in the pocket of a member.

L.C.
Indian Head cent - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/what/154503-copperhead-badge.html#post1651541

 

[jeff of pa]

Nah, it's a good bit larger than the V-Nicks and didn't ring up as one. I'm going to try to get some good pictures today with a microscope/camera and better lighting. For reference, the diameter of the stamped coin is about 28.5mm (nickels are around 20.5) and the thickness is just shy of 2mm.

28.5mm definitely puts it in the Large cent range 1816-1836

http://www.coin-collecting-guide-for-beginners.com/large-cents.html

 

[TrpnBils]

Upon further research I believe you have a "copperhead's" Indian head penny medallion that most likely belonged to a member of the K.G.C. / K.K.K. / I.O.O.F. They wore them on their lapel to show their support before going underground. John C. Breckenridge was known to wear his while in the Vice president's seat. After they were considered to be a treasonous organization they wore them under their lapels so they could not be seen without turning the lapel over. Although this one may have just carried in the pocket of a member.

L.C.
Indian Head cent - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/what/154503-copperhead-badge.html#post1651541

I don't see how it could be that based on the size alone, unless I'm missing something here...

 

[jeff of pa]

 

[Carolina Tom]

I see the liberty face outline, and I have terrible vision. I am voting LC.... if it is the correct weight and diameter. You could always scratch it to see if it is copper.

GL&HH.

 

[DCMatt]

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/what/154503-copperhead-badge.html#post1651541

This was one of my all-time favorite threads on this forum.

BTW- Where was this relic found in PA? Western? The KKK had a very significant membership in the mid-west in the 1920's and western PA is pretty darn close...

DCMatt

 

[gollum]

hey gollum,
from both of your posts, i get the impression that you feel the KKK of mid 17th century and the KKK of today are exactly the same thing. That its reputation was as well known as it is today and even that the current media existed back then. Do you know how many fraternity organizations sprang up back then? And no, Scientology was not one of them. Trying to compare it to scientology drives my point further.
Everyone can agree on what it is TODAY. But youll need to crack a few books to truly know what it was back then and how it recruited.
SoCal?
Your finger pointing / calling people out really brings me down dude.
you should
mellow out dude.
Until then,
Happy Hunting

I was strictly commenting on how silly it sounded (whether from him or his grandfather) that someone would join the Klan not knowing "what they were about".

Dave,

Maybe its you who needs to crack a book. I don't know where to begin:

1. "KKK of the mid 17th century" : That would be about 1650. You are about two hundred and fifteen years early. Even in the 'mid 19th century (when they were founded), they never hid from ANYBODY what they stood for.

2. "Trying to compare it to scientology drives my point further" : RIF. I didn't compare the KKK with Scientology. I stated that Scientologists when they first enter don't know what the cult is all about. You don't know about Lord Xinu and his shenanigans until many thousands of dollars and some levels later. It would be understandable that someone might join Scientology, then quit after they found out "what it was all about." Not so with the KKK because they have NEVER hidden what they were all about.

I am (and have always been) mellow). Its others with no sense of humor or with an overabundance of political correctness that aren't mellow. Hate to harsh your buzz dude! Maybe you need to lay down the bong and crack a book or two.

Take Care - Mike