I finally got my point back from the authenticator.

[DANGLANGLEY]

I finally got my point back from the authenticator.



It took about a month longer to get my point back than he said it would and the report is not good. This is very disappointing news and I have decided to keep it and put on a board with a bunch of others my wife and I have found together. Here's what he said about the point in the letter he sent back with it. I have to be honest, the news I got back has made me feel sick.

The pictured Paleo point does not meet my criteria for certification for at least the following
reasons:
1. Insufficient signs of natural age or deposits.
2. Technically wrong flaking and style compared to typical ancient examples.
Taken as a whole the general flaking and fluting techniques used are not typical of Ancient Indian techniques. While I can't say there is no possibility the piece is not ancient, I highly doubt
that possibility.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Since it a personal find I wouldn't care what some yahoo had to say about it. You know you found it and to me that's all that matters, not some piece of paper that any Tom, Dick, or Harry can mass produce.

 

[silvercop]

i agree with everyone else on the second opinion, especially since you found it so long ago. it looks good to me and i have seen a lot of authentic and fakes.

 

[docmann]

Dan,
What you're hearing here is correct. When it comes right down to it, the only points you know for certain are real are the ones you find. I have a precious few intact flint points but there is no doubt that they are 100% authentic as I know when and where I found each one. You found it and therefore you know it's authentic. While I'm certain most authenticators are sincere and propably adept at what they do, they are human. Moreover, there have been some studies involving a number of good authenticators who have completely "missed" the origin of well-documented pieces. In my profession, second opinions are not only acceptable, but often imperative as no one has the market cornered on intelligence. Hang it there, and don't sacrifice an excellent piece!
docmann

 

[RGINN]

Looks good to me. It's strange it's fluted on one side, and transitional point sounds probable. What was the context it was found in? I would take that into consideration also. Great find!

 

[Neanderthal]

Dan,
What you're hearing here is correct. When it comes right down to it, the only points you know for certain are real are the ones you find. I have a precious few intact flint points but there is no doubt that they are 100% authentic as I know when and where I found each one. You found it and therefore you know it's authentic. While I'm certain most authenticators are sincere and propably adept at what they do, they are human. Moreover, there have been some studies involving a number of good authenticators who have completely "missed" the origin of well-documented pieces. In my profession, second opinions are not only acceptable, but often imperative as no one has the market cornered on intelligence. Hang it there, and don't sacrifice an excellent piece!
docmann

Unfortunately, you cannot say a point is "100% authentic because I found it" anymore. I know of too many cases of seeding sites, ruses, etc. It happens, in fact it's commonplace - regardless of where you live or hunt. A person who thinks they are completely immune from it happening to them, is fooling themselves.

 

[Flintfinder of Mo.]

I agree with Matt. On the other hand if it was found some 35 years ago, I dont see it being planted. Hey authenticators are human and make mistakes, I know this first hand. Send it to some one else. I will put it under a scope for you if you like. I just think sometimes if its questionable , some authenticators. would rather regect it than put their name on the line. To paper a fake point really stirs the waters, as I have seen time and time again. get you a secound opinion , like others have said. Thats the best advise. Good luck. John

 

[*Molly*]

Redstones are VERY rare. Get a second opinion. Please let us know the outcome. I'm sure I speak for everyone in saying we are all curious..

Good luck, I sure hope its authentic.

Molly.

 

[Th3rty7]

With the long, extended auricles that piece looks more like a quad to me. If you really found that, what are you worried about? Authenticators get paid for their best guess, they make mistakes, but they have more knowledge and experience than most though, also he had an opportunity to inspect the piece in his hand, under microscope, etc. It's really hard to tell if a piece is authentic by simply looking at a picture on the internet.Are we missing an important detail here?

 

[Neanderthal]

1. I don't think it's a Redstone, not at all.

2. I agree with you John, I too have seen authenticators do the same thing.

3. If you found it, why worry about what an authenticator says? If you sent it to them only for typology, I wouldn't count on them doing a great job at that either.

 

[DANGLANGLEY]

I originally wanted to sell two points to help me buy a new metal detector. http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,212245.0.html

Well, I raised enough money to buy the detector without selling my points. I am going to keep them so I won't be needing them authenticated. I had been told several times over the years that one was worth several hundred dollars and that if I had it authenticated it would sell faster and be more likely to sell for what it is worth. I had been given several different opinions as to what type it was so I guess that is why I posted it here in the first place. It sure turned into a mess for me and cost me around $48.00 to insure it, authenticate it and to send it there and back. I had it insured for $1,000.00 just in case something happened to it.

I appreciate all of the advice, kind words and encouragement. I had these wrapped up and put in a safe place and now I'm going to put them on a board to display them once I find enough to make a good one. You all have a good one and thanks again.

DANGLANGLEY

 

[DANGLANGLEY]

I’m sorry about never saying who the authenticator was that I sent my point to. It’s been so long that I forgot why I didn’t. His name is Jerry Dickey and he did live in Lynchburg, Tn.

 

[Garscale]

Well I'm sorry Mr dickey couldn't paper that. The polish looks good on it unless someone went to a lot of trouble tumbling it. The style is odd and doesn't fit a type well but it sure looks good in pics.

 

[dirstscratcher]

So the good that came out of the authenticater's opinion is that it delayed you selling it, and now you don't have to. Down the road, you would have probably regretted over and over selling it.

 

[joshuaream]

Really cool point. It's not a typical piece, but then again at 2 inches it is quite small. It could have been reworked/resharpened down from something bigger. You probably won't find a nicer point without a lot of digging, so I'd be happy you kept it.

FWIW, I like Jerry. I'm sure he's made mistakes, but not papering something you are unsure of is better than papering anything and everything. It's unfortunate that some oddball points like yours are dinged along the way.

 

[monsterrack]

Having a COA done is just asking someone else what they think. Jim Bennett is the best JMO. Also let me state this most people that do COA's that are up to a high standard won't put their name on something that they are not 100% sure of. Now some may disagree with this but it is JMO. Not every Native American could knapp very good like the guy next to them. Just because it doesn't look text book style doesn't mean it's not from a certain time period.
There are a number of reasons for a point not to look right to someone that is not from the area that it came from. Where I live some creeks will produce artifacts with no deposit of any kind, some creeks will just cover the point with deposits and then we have creeks that do both, but to say the flaking technique is off doesn't prove much of anything. When I knapped a lot I did so with the guy that taught me to knapp. We could use the same everything and mix them up in a bucket, but we could come back 1 year later and look at the blades an know who made what. It all comes down to like your signature , everyone writes different, but we were all taught the same way to write.
.

 

[uniface]

FWIW, If you're looking for a second opinion that doesn't boil down to an experience-based educated guess, my own personal recommendation would be Brian Williard's OSL service. He's done many of mine and hasn't missed yet.

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