I have no idea what this is...

[BuckleBoy]

Hello,

I found my first point ever in a field today (post is in Today's Finds--I'd love your feedback on what I found there as well! Here's the link: http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,153679.0.html ). This got me thinking... About 10 years ago, I bought a lot at an estate sale that included a little box filled with arrowheads. Many of these were in envelopes that had old fountain pen writing on them ("found at Betty Walker's place" and things like that). There was even one envelope that said "bone chewed by my great grandfather" ) They seemed to be from the 1920's or so. Anyhow...this was in the box--although it didn't have an envelope--and I have no clue what it is. It doesn't seem like a normal point.

I don't have a clue when it comes to Native American artifacts. I'm very interested in your opinions on what this piece is.

Here are close-ups of both sides (1st five photos are one side; last four photos are the other side)


Regards,


Buckleboy

 

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[Snowdragon]

Looks like a turtle to me. I don't think it's a point.

 

[Felinepeachy]

Turtle Clan of the Ojibway and Delaware Nations. Anishinabek history and the significance of the turtle. The story of Creation.

A long time ago, the Great Mystery anointed the Earth with the "Original People"). They lived in serene peace, but as time moved on they began to fight with each other and needlessly kill the animals, they lost respect for life itself.

God the Creator could see that the harmonious way of life was no longer appreciated. This made him very sad, so he decided to purify the Earth with a great flood. This flood took the lives of almost every living thing.

Only a few animals survived. They did so by hanging onto a big log, this kept them afloat as they searched for dry land. They searched for days but there was no land to be found.

As they sat cold and forlornly on the log, a Sacred Being appeared to them; Nanaboozoo, he said "peace be with you, I have an idea. I will dive into the water and swim to the bottom and grab some earth. With a little luck and help from the Great Mystery, we could create a new earth to live on."

Nanaboozo dove into the water and was gone for quite a while. The animals became very concerned about him, but finally he surfaced. He did not make it to the bottom, the water was too deep. The animals thought if Nanaboozoo couldn't do it, it would be impossible for them. Again with their hopes dashed, they sat forlornly on the log.

Nanaboozoo said to them, "You must live. You must make an effort to survive." At that moment, the loon, the mink, and the otter dove into the water in search of that small piece of earth, they could not reach the bottom, they all failed.

All the animals began to lose hope and one animal timidly came forward, the Muskrat, he said that he would like to try.

All the other animals laughed at him and told him he was too small. As Muskrat was leaving, Nanaboozoo spoke up and told the animals "only the Creator is to judge others" and he also said, "if Muskrat wants to try he should be allowed."

Muskrat was not afraid, he looked at all his friends as he slipped silently beneath the flood waters. The animals watched the water anxiously and then became worried, because Muskrat was gone too long. Unexpectedly, he rose to the surface, limp and lifeless. He gave his life trying to reach the piece of earth they needed so badly.

Nanaboozoo and the animals were so sad, that they began to sing mourning songs for their friend Muskrat. As they sat around him, Nanaboozoo saw something in Muskrat's paw, he opened his paw and found a small ball of earth there.

All of the animals were in awe, Muskrat didn't fail and he gave his life so that new life could begin. Nanaboozoo took the earth and breathed on it. Suddenly a beautiful Turtle swam to Nanaboozoo and asked him to place the ball of earth on his back.

Turtle said "with the help of the Great Spirit we can make a new land for the Anishinabek." Nanaboozoo placed the earth on the center of Turtle's back and when he did this, the winds blew from the four directions and Nanboozoo disappeared into the wind.

As the winds blew, they became stronger and the small ball of earth on the Turtle's back began to grow and it formed an island in the water.

The winds did not subside for days and the island got bigger and bigger, yet Turtle still held the new land on his back. Just like all the Turtles before him who carried their young protectively on their backs, Turtle carried the young earth.

The animals were over-joyed and filled with excitement as they watched their friend Turtle become the miracle of Turtle Island. He also became the Chief of all of the Clans because of his deed.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

It looks like a Turtle Effigy to me as well. The problem though is that 99.9% of these flint effigies are fakes or modern rechips of broken points. I would send it off to see if it was authentic.

 

[BuckleBoy]

It looks like a Turtle Effigy to as well. The problem though is that 99.9% of these flint effigies are fakes or modern rechips of broken points. I would send it off to see if it was authentic.

Do you have contact information for any good authenticators? Are there any that I could send photos to?

 

[schlooppy]

http://www.arrowheads.com/main.htm

Buckleboy,

on the lower left of this page is a list of good authenticators. Hope it turns out real, as was stated earlier most of these are fake.

John

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Buckleboy, here is contact info for two authenticators that are in your home state and both are well respected in the artifact community.

Davis Artifacts
Tom and David Davis
P.O. Box 676
Stanton, KY 40380

Email: tomdavis@mis.net

Phone: (606) 663-2741

FAX: (606) 663-4370

...

Contact Us!
Jackson Galleries
P.O. Box 1005
Mount Sterling, Kentucky 40353
Phone: 1-800-466-3836
Fax: 1-859-499-0160
Alex: alex@jacksongalleries.com
Bill: bestrelics@aol.com

 

[BuckleBoy]

Thank you SO much, Dorkfish.

I'll contact them.

 

[luckyinkentucky]

It looks like a Turtle Effigy to as well. The problem though is that 99.9% of these flint effigies are fakes or modern rechips of broken points. I would send it off to see if it was authentic.

X 2

Tom Davis does an excellent job, and he is here in Kentucky. Jackson galleries has had a lot of negative 'buzz' locally of late. It seems they papered a known modern turkeytail, and the guy caught them on it. The reason we all know it as fake ..... it was knapped out in front of us at a local society meeting. The decision to send it to Jackson came up as a joke, and we all chipped in $5 to see what would happen.

From the pics it appears that the effigy you have was ground out of a cache blade of some sort. It appears to be knapped or pressure flaked around the widest part, and filed or ground for the rest of the 'body' or outline. I could be wrong, but that's just my observation from the pics.

 

[BuckleBoy]

If you still have the old envelopes, it might be worthwhile to research where the artifacts were found. Maybe there are still some waiting to be found at Betty Walker's place.

Definitely resembles a turtle, and based on the age of the writing on the envelopes, your turtle could very well be authentic. Please let us know what you find out. (And get at least 2 opinions.)

I'll let you all know. I've got my fingers crossed on this one.

 

[Cannonman17]

I hope for your sake it is real but I believe there are more fake effigy pieces out there today than there are real ones. I like the way this one is shaped and I hope it turns out for you!

 

[creekhunter]

WOW!

 

[Rege-PA]

Very interesting piece...looks to be a snapping turtle or alligator snapper effigy. Any documentation as to area found? I know that 99% of these are fake but I like the patination and encrustations on the flint, if they are really encrusted over the knapping it`s a good sign of age. I would send it to Dwain Rogers in TX., he is considered one of the best.

 

[irbaddadjoe]

Fascinating .

 

[Cannonman17]

Is there any way that you can get a good picture of the inside of the notches? I mean your pictures are pretty darn good but if you could get a clear, well lit picture of the inside of the notches it might tell more-

 

[BuckleBoy]

Is there any way that you can get a good picture of the inside of the notches? I mean your pictures are pretty darn good but if you could get a clear, well lit picture of the inside of the notches it might tell more-

Ok I'll try...

 

[bluecat]

Tom Davis is a good authenticator, but I wouldn't take much in his appraisal values. I met him a few years back and he offered me about $100 for one of my points and $175 for this frame of quality points. I was offered $500 for the same point at several different shows. I didn't sell either way and still have every point that I have found.

 

[Hill Billy]

Very nice BC, that's a sweet frame.

 

[Merf]

That is a fantastic find BB
Hope you can get it authenticated. Might be worth some big bucks.

 

[Noodle]

Pay no attention to him! When we get there, we get there!