if spanish records show the location of a shipwreck -not salvaged-- is it abandoned?

[ivan salis]

it is my legal view point that if Spanish records clearly show that the Spanish knew pf a shipwrecks location -- (survivors taken off the wreck --noted in said records) -but attempted no salvage of ….that they legally speaking ABANDONED the wreck ….and if its not in claimed US govt waters --- past the 12 mile limit on the east coast / and well past the state o0f Florida's 3 mile limit ---that said wreck in "open waters" would be a "open wreck" free to the finder of it to claim as theirs....

what do you folks think?

 

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[Salvor6]

If the ship is damaged and sinking and if the captain shouts "all hands abandon ship" then it has legally been declared abandoned.

 

[lairmo]

If the ship is damaged and sinking and if the captain shouts "all hands abandon ship" then it has legally been declared abandoned.

Until the captain gets back home...and is imprisoned or worse...right?...lol

 

[xaos]

I would read up on the Juno and La Galga case law.

Writing for the appellate court, Chief Judge J. Harvie Wilkinson 3rd argued that both ships belonged to Spain because any abandonment of sovereign shipwrecks had to be explicit, not implied.

The express abandonment theory has been further strengthened, however, by its application in the more recent case of the Mercedes. In response to the claims that the ship was not subject to sovereign immunity the court applied the principle that ‘a sovereign vessel that appears to have been abandoned remains the property of the nation to which it belonged at the time of sinking unless that nation has taken formal action to abandon it or to transfer title to another party.’ This decision confirmed the international law that sunken warships may be abandoned only by an ‘express act of abandonment’.

Spain has stated publicly that none of their shipwrecks have been abandoned, and have a blanket refusal on any salvage.

In addition, the limits are not the 12nm, but the 200nm EEZ as "cultural property". Then there is UNCLOS...

If you think it is sovereign, Spanish, French, or whatever, given all of the latest rulings in the Courts, I would leave it.

 

[Salvor6]

Ivan I think xaos is right. The US claims 12 miles out as it's territorial waters, 24 miles out as it's contiguous zone and since 1989 200 miles out as it's "Exclusive Economic Zone." Also Spain has said that "none of their shipwrecks have been abandoned" even before 1750. They will claim it no matter what year it sank. You should have kept your mouth shut.

 

[huntsman53]

I do not think that the 200 Nautical Mile Exclusive Economic Zone applies to any shipwreck. It applies only to Marine Resources such as sea life, oil, minerals, water, etc., etc. for economic benefit. Technically, a shipwreck and it's contents are not marine resources since they are man-made and are not naturally occurring. However, if it came down to a Court Battle, the Lawyers would likely have to prove or disapprove this fact!

 

[Darren in NC]

You should have kept your mouth shut.

My exact thought. Why would anyone in today's anti-treasure hunter climate dare speak publicly of a new wreck they intend to pursue? All respect to you, Ivan. But I would have the mods delete these threads, and only speak to those who need to know.

 

[Vox veritas]

Beware, there is the definition of archaeological remains within the 200 mile EEZ. The state of ownership of the lost ship may request to recover. It was the case of Odyssey / Mercedes, which is (or was) in the waters of Portugal, and Portugal did not flinch (strangely or favor among related political parties).

 

[MiddenMonster]

I wonder how that works if you find a wreck from a culture/country that no longer exists, or didn't exist at the time. For example, if you found a sunken Viking boat outside of the legally claimed limits of England--or better, outside the legal limits of Nova Scotia or the United States, who would tie you up in court until you went broke? Sweden? Norway? Iceland? I'm sure England (or Canada or the United States) would try to get their fingers in the pie, as well.

 

[FISHEYE]

Its not a spanish wreck.It is a pirate shipwreck.No country will lay claim to a pirate wreck.

 

[xaos]

I do not think that the 200 Nautical Mile Exclusive Economic Zone applies to any shipwreck. It applies only to Marine Resources such as sea life, oil, minerals, water, etc., etc. for economic benefit.

I have seen it defined as a cultural resource and/or archaeological resource under the definition of 'marine resources' in the EEZ.

In the US, the NMSA has ability to protect submerged cultural resources located in waters from 3nm out to the 200 nm EEZ. Florida and many other States have agreements that include cultural property (not just fisheries) under this act.

NMSA

 

[Au_Dreamers]

Unfortunately Politicians and Bureaucrats have alternate definitions than Webster's

 

[Au_Dreamers]

Options?
Unknown derelict vessel, animo dereliquendi sine animo revertendi et sine spe recuperandi -intending to leave it as derelict, without intending to return, and without hope of recovery.
Claim as Jetsam
Outside state limits, Federal Admiralty, Outside US water, law of salvage and/or law of finds.
Turn your finds into the receiver of wrecks UK.

General cargo, never claim provenance to a Ship for marketing purposes.
Nobody will ever repeat what Mel Fisher did with the Atocha, because they can't and it doesn't bode well for modern new salvage projects.

Numismatic value will be what it will be. Market value of artifacts will be what they will be with maybe a slightly better price because they are from a shipwreck.

Liquidate as much as you can, as fast as you can and sip cocktails somewhere warm for the rest of your life!